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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Life imprisonment for driver swapping???
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07/02/2007 10:25:55 PM · #1
Life for driver swapping. I see jokes about Bush in here. The US is called a nation of gun toting cowboys. etc, etc, etc. Well, after reading the above URL about some UK matters, I'd like to issue a humor warning. When I see this tripe in the future I'm going to start quoting this and other hilarious stuff about the UK. At the same time I'm going to do like Ken and ROTFLMAO, while passing gas in your general direction. ;)

(Thank goodness I live in the US. In the UK this is a anti-social violation!)
07/02/2007 10:40:17 PM · #2
Well, for one thing, nobody in the US would recognize any soccer player....;) I say lock em up for life....;P (J/K)

Message edited by author 2007-07-02 22:40:57.
07/02/2007 10:47:05 PM · #3
They should move to the US, where subverting justice is apparently national policy.

Hey, did they every think of not speeding?
07/02/2007 10:51:27 PM · #4
Originally posted by GeneralE:

They should move to the US, where subverting justice is apparently national policy.

Hey, did they every think of not speeding?


I think the non speeders are a literal minority. Driving the speed limit on the beltway here will probably literally get you killed seeing as how at peak periods people travel at a minimum of 20 over lol. The only real time it slows down is rush hour.

I tried driving 10 mph over the speed limit, many middle fingers, bad looks from old people, and 6 tractor trailers tried to run me down.

Message edited by author 2007-07-02 22:52:29.
07/02/2007 10:52:43 PM · #5
"Perverting the course of justice and attempting to pervert the course of justice are common law offenses for which there is no statutory maximum,"
"About 1400 people are charged with perverting the course of justice every year. The average fine that accompanies the prison sentence is £780 (US $1560)."

I guess I missed the humour in a story about someone getting caught trying to avoid taking responsibility for his bad driving record.
07/02/2007 10:56:20 PM · #6
I paid $800 for speeding in an HOV lane while driving alone. Do the crime, pay the fine! :)

Now.... 8 months to Life seems a little arbitrary. Is it a major offense or isn't it? Sounds like there is a LOT of leeway there and the press is just dramatizing.

Edit - Oh yeah, that's what the press does!

Message edited by author 2007-07-02 22:56:43.
07/02/2007 10:57:52 PM · #7
Pardon them I say...show the generosity that President Bush had for Libby. Bush Pardons Libby...It's only fair.

Ray
07/02/2007 11:02:52 PM · #8
Originally posted by idnic:

I paid $800 for speeding in an HOV lane while driving alone. Do the crime, pay the fine! :)

Now.... 8 months to Life seems a little arbitrary. Is it a major offense or isn't it? Sounds like there is a LOT of leeway there and the press is just dramatizing.

Edit - Oh yeah, that's what the press does!


Well It is purgery and when commited in masses you have to put the foot down and say THIS WILL STOP NOW, or your life is over now.
07/03/2007 12:01:13 AM · #9
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Pardon them I say...show the generosity that President Bush had for Libby. Bush Pardons Libby...It's only fair.

Ray

Uh, he didn't pardon him -- he commuted the sentence to eliminate jail time. Libby still owes a substantial fine, and the conviction stands and is on the record.
07/03/2007 12:09:00 AM · #10
Originally posted by idnic:

Now.... 8 months to Life seems a little arbitrary. Is it a major offense or isn't it? Sounds like there is a LOT of leeway there and the press is just dramatizing.


The crime is "perverting justice", and you can see there might be a very broad range of actual cases; thus the open-ended nature of the sentencing. These guys are in no danger of life imprisonment.

R.
07/03/2007 01:09:36 AM · #11
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Pardon them I say...show the generosity that President Bush had for Libby. Bush Pardons Libby...It's only fair.

Ray

Uh, he didn't pardon him -- he commuted the sentence to eliminate jail time. Libby still owes a substantial fine, and the conviction stands and is on the record.


For the time being anyway. The Pardon will come at the end of his term.
07/03/2007 01:19:23 AM · #12
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Pardon them I say...show the generosity that President Bush had for Libby. Bush Pardons Libby...It's only fair.

Ray

Uh, he didn't pardon him -- he commuted the sentence to eliminate jail time. Libby still owes a substantial fine, and the conviction stands and is on the record.


I imagine that the Libby Legal Defense Trust will pay a substantial chunk of that fine, if not its whole and there is talk that he could still be pardoned when Bush leaves office. He's sitting pretty now, if you ask me.
07/03/2007 03:08:49 AM · #13
As Bear_Music said, there's no chance they'll be given life imprisonment. The offence of perverting the course of justice covers all sorts of things, including intimidation of or interference with witnesses and jurors, destroying or fabricating evidence and so on. The penalty that would be applied to someone found guilty would be proportionate to the severity of the case they tried to influence.

And well done on them being charged so that they'll have to have their day in court, instead of being excused due to being high-profile.

GWB's actions regarding Libby, on the other hand, would disgust me except for the fact that I find them completely unsurprising.
07/03/2007 04:41:27 AM · #14
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Pardon them I say...show the generosity that President Bush had for Libby. Bush Pardons Libby...It's only fair.

Ray

Uh, he didn't pardon him -- he commuted the sentence to eliminate jail time. Libby still owes a substantial fine, and the conviction stands and is on the record.


...for now
07/03/2007 06:08:24 AM · #15
I would add that the article is misleading: there is no minimum sentence and there is no maximum sentence (save that we do not have the death penalty any more). The 8 month reference comes from the statement at the bottom of the piece where reference is made to the average penalty applied in recent years for perverting the course of justice.

The reason that there is no minimum or maximum penalty is that the crime comes from the common law: it is not written in any statute, but has arisen through common practice by the courts. While statutes are generally written to include minimum and maximum penalties for an offence, the common law is not formalised in this way and so the penalties are not limited in either direction.

Recent high profile cases include:

Jeffery Archer, the novellist and disgraced tory peer who fabricated an alibi to win a $1m libel case in 1987 (sentenced to 4 years in 2001) - incidentally, my law firm represented the newspaper in both 1987 and 2001 and we cheered on hearing this(!)

Wearside Jack (John Humble) whose fake letters distracted the police in the search for the serial murderer, the Yorkshire Ripper, in the 1960s possibly resulting in two or more unnecessary deaths (sentenced to 8 years in 2005).
07/03/2007 09:00:43 AM · #16
Originally posted by BeeCee:



I guess I missed the humour in a story about someone getting caught trying to avoid taking responsibility for his bad driving record.


You didn't find the whole "Paris Hilton Goes to Jail" incident funny? I thought it was hilarious.
07/03/2007 09:18:10 AM · #17
Originally posted by idnic:

I paid $800 for speeding in an HOV lane while driving alone. Do the crime, pay the fine! :)

Now.... 8 months to Life seems a little arbitrary. Is it a major offense or isn't it? Sounds like there is a LOT of leeway there and the press is just dramatizing.

Edit - Oh yeah, that's what some press do!


Edited your edit. :-)

And I'm sure the people here who work for the press appreciate your slap in the face. :-)

Maybe next week we decide to flame studio photographers huh?

MattO
07/03/2007 09:50:52 AM · #18
Originally posted by GeneralE:

They should move to the US, where subverting justice is apparently national policy.



Oh crap. What's bush done now.
07/03/2007 09:53:25 AM · #19
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Uh, he didn't pardon him -- he commuted the sentence to eliminate jail time. Libby still owes a substantial fine, and the conviction stands and is on the record.


He'll pardon him when he leaves office in a year or so. For now he'll pay his fine and tell him to take a vacation.
07/03/2007 10:23:18 AM · #20
As an American living in Britain, seems like a pretty sane response to me. I'm not sure I understand what Walt's problem is with this story. I thought from the subject line this was a thread about people hopping out of a car at a stoplight and changing positions in the car (when I was young we called them "fire drills"); prison for that would be extreme. Prison for lying (under oath) to avoid punishment? Not so extreme to me.
07/03/2007 10:27:43 AM · #21
Originally posted by rheverly:

As an American living in Britain, seems like a pretty sane response to me. I'm not sure I understand what Walt's problem is with this story. I thought from the subject line this was a thread about people hopping out of a car at a stoplight and changing positions in the car (when I was young we called them "fire drills"); prison for that would be extreme. Prison for lying (under oath) to avoid punishment? Not so extreme to me.


From the title it seems like they were changing drivers while driving lol.
07/03/2007 10:32:28 AM · #22
Quit being so Naive people - this was all planned out by GW. Libby did'nt out a CIA operative - R. Armitage did. Then he cooperated with the prosecution to setup Libby who just so happens to twist up his memory so he could get conivicted up obstructing "justice". Of course GW was going to commute his sentence (he could'nt pardon him - not enough time has elapsed). Little old dumb bush has been playing everybody since he has been in office. Everyone is crying about Iraq and the reason we are there (WMD, terrorism...) - not. Saddam tried to kill members of Bush's family and the cowboy got his personal revenge - that's it pure and simple.
(I need to get off of the caffine...)
07/03/2007 10:38:25 AM · #23
Speed cameras suck! While we were visiting my wifes parents in New Zealand. I talked my wife into letting me drive home one night, Low Traffic etc figure what could go wrong.

Well out on this motorway they have electric speed limit signs and change the speed according to traffic levels and weather conditions. On the way through earlier in the day the speed limit was posted 100KPH
on way home they had switched it down to 80KPH I kept going 100 seen a flash and was busted.

Worst part is, It was my father inlaws car. We didn't tell him I was driving. My wife gave him the money to pay the fine and we thought it was over. About a year later he sent me a picture of me behind the wheel of his car looking rather stupid as I blew past the 80KPH signs at 105K. His little way of letting us know. I had been busted twice.


07/03/2007 10:38:49 AM · #24
Originally posted by Jchamp:

Quit being so Naive people - this was all planned out by GW. Libby did'nt out a CIA operative - R. Armitage did. Then he cooperated with the prosecution to setup Libby who just so happens to twist up his memory so he could get conivicted up obstructing "justice". Of course GW was going to commute his sentence (he could'nt pardon him - not enough time has elapsed). Little old dumb bush has been playing everybody since he has been in office. Everyone is crying about Iraq and the reason we are there (WMD, terrorism...) - not. Saddam tried to kill members of Bush's family and the cowboy got his personal revenge - that's it pure and simple.
(I need to get off of the caffine...)


Not to mention that outing plame wasn't actually a crime since she was not a covert operative. That's why nobody with a brain cared about Libby.

Notice, Libby was convicted of Lying, if outing Plame had actually been a crime then he would have had other charges.
07/03/2007 12:00:07 PM · #25
Originally posted by fir3bird:


(Thank goodness I live in the US. In the UK this is a anti-social violation!)


I agree with Bear_Music fully;
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by idnic:

Now.... 8 months to Life seems a little arbitrary. Is it a major offense or isn't it? Sounds like there is a LOT of leeway there and the press is just dramatizing.


The crime is "perverting justice", and you can see there might be a very broad range of actual cases; thus the open-ended nature of the sentencing. These guys are in no danger of life imprisonment.

R.

If you believe everything you read on a 'newspaper' site then that I can't have too much sympathyfor you...
It seems you just want to have a go at us Brit's but hey that's right!
:o)
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