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Showing posts 126 - 131 of 131, (reverse)
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11/08/2007 10:33:26 PM · #126
Originally posted by ryand:

... our relationship with Him wasn't just a set of rules, but a loving relationship where we can interact with Him rather than simply having to follow a bunch of old laws.

Originally posted by GeneralE:

The Inquisition seemed to think we should be following a bunch of silly old laws -- or else ...

Originally posted by ryand:

You are exactly correct. The Roman Catholic Church believes that works are what get us into Heaven. I don't believe that, I know that it is absolutely impossible for me to be good enough to get into Heaven. The only way I'm getting into Heaven is by believing that Jesus died on the cross and accepting His forgiveness.

Dude, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and remind myself that being in a religious institution has insulated you from the real world.

And in spite of your youth, you comport yourself pretty well in a discussion.

But you seriously lack time and mileage and you are seriously lacking in real world experience.

The first time you run into someone, get to know them, and find out that the family that seems so normal is a new dynamic after picking up the pieces of a car wreck that took the father and the twin sister of the little girl you know, and that she died in Mom's arms, and you discover that these are the nicest people you've ever met, then all that "God's Will", and "this is not for us to understand" doesn't really mean shit when it strikes down a family who never did one wrong thing in their lives. It's just wrong and it happened.....life goes on.

My wife's father just died unexpectedly, and her mom has Alzheimer's, something really let go when he died, and she's now the nastiest person I know. The mom I knew is gone. In two days time my wife went from having nice loving parents to nothing. Sometimes bad stuff just happens, and that's what we have to live with in our day to day existence.

It's okay to have faith, but I don't for one second after believing that God gave me free will, believe that he's going to stop us from screwing up our lives if we so choose. That's such an arrogant thought that we would be that important. And it seems pretty obvious to me that the measure of our eternal gift will be based on how we act and treat our fellow man, as Jesus taught, not the idolization of the man. That seems to miss the point entirely as I understand what Jesus stood for in the first place. For me, the jury's still out on Jesus, but what I do know is that to me it doesn't matter because it is his lessons that are important, not whether he was/is the son of God or not. So rather than worshipping a dead guy, I'd rather do what I can to help a friend or stranger in need, be good to my fellow man, be as honest and decent as I can, and do my best to be a better person in what I feel to be God's ideal for us. So it's not so much that we do the works, but how we go about it IMO. And I sure as heck can't be that best person I can be by trying to live by a book that's a couple thousand years old, that was translated by any number of people, has more spins on it than a planet, and is used as much for a weapon as it is for good. I feel that the Bible has done more harm than good in the past 2000 years.

You do realize that the breadth of the Inquisition and its related beliefs and consequences spanned more than 700 years, don't you?

And you know what? One thing that God has done, as I see it, is to have gifted us with the intelligence and the inquisitiveness to grow, change, learn, and question everything that is life and to move forward.

But I'm really rambling now. Suffice it to say that I've been through a lot in life, almost died a couple of times, had a lot of really terrific things hapopen and a lot of awful things happen.

But I'm the one who has to live my life, and IMO, God has given me the tools to do so pretty well, so I'll soldier on for a while.....learning, and growing, and making note of the everchanging ways that occur each and every day. And I won't try and contradict what is incontrovertable fact like the timeframe of the dinosaurs based on some screwball belief that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

That'd make me a fool, wouldn't it?

But you do what it is that you feel and believe to be right and I wish you all the luck in the world.

God Bless!
11/08/2007 11:10:30 PM · #127
Originally posted by ryand:

I see that this thread can go on forever, with people debating the point or around the point, but i have one thing to explain about the Bible, just so everyone understands this point, because this will clear up an incredible amount of seeming "contradictions" in the Bible...

No, that doesn't do anything to clear up the contradictions. But with or without contradictions, the bible is merely one document in a long litany of documents describing some or other system of belief. And the religions that it describes are only two out of dozens in the historical record, and countless untold others history has forgotten. And your interpretation of what the bible says is one out of myriad others.
11/08/2007 11:20:53 PM · #128
Originally posted by RonB:

Originally posted by Louis:

So, which part of the bible doesn't condone slavery now?

The parts I quoted.
The New Testament does not APPROVE of slavery, as you say. It merely acknowledges it as something that was practiced AT THE TIME, and proposes that existing slaves be treated humanely and that slaves be obedient to their masters. Christ was NOT an advocate of overthrowing the social orders of the time - including those related to marriage, family, culture, food, religion, etc.

Wait a minute. First, when it was suggested to you without support of quotes that the bible tacitly approved of slavery, you offered quotes seeming to show the reverse (but in my opinion not really). Then, when a slew of quotes were provided that demonstrate in no uncertain terms that the people of the bible not merely approved of, but practiced slavery, including selling their own children into slavery, you suddenly say that, well, yes, the people of the bible practiced it, but clearly the bible tells people how to practice it.

Brrrr.....
11/08/2007 11:21:52 PM · #129
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by ryand:

I see that this thread can go on forever, with people debating the point or around the point, but i have one thing to explain about the Bible, just so everyone understands this point, because this will clear up an incredible amount of seeming "contradictions" in the Bible...

No, that doesn't do anything to clear up the contradictions. But with or without contradictions, the bible is merely one document in a long litany of documents describing some or other system of belief. And the religions that it describes are only two out of dozens in the historical record, and countless untold others history has forgotten. And your interpretation of what the bible says is one out of myriad others.


You said it correctly. I haven't read bible or kuran or even books of my religion. But I understood one fact that if we want to look for the positive from them. They all teach us one thing that is how to be a good human being.
I am not a religious person and I do believe that as human being I shall be kind to other human beings. And not only to other human beings but to other animals too. This is my religion and I practice this.
And I feel evolution theory or any science does not stop other people to do this.
As far as bible or any other text goes on explaination of what we are and why we are. I feel they will always fail, because they are also written by humans like us. And we are fallible animal.

Can we have more pictures now.

11/09/2007 09:00:51 AM · #130
Originally posted by zxaar:

You said it correctly. I haven't read bible or kuran or even books of my religion. But I understood one fact that if we want to look for the positive from them. They all teach us one thing that is how to be a good human being.

Religious texts tell you how you should live your life, under threat of not getting to paradise when you die if you don't live your life the prescribed way.

Thankfully, modern society allows us to live our life in a moral and decent way without having to fall back on religion as a reference point in the hope we're going to get to Heaven if we've been good enough.
11/09/2007 12:20:31 PM · #131
Originally posted by ryand:

You are exactly correct. The Roman Catholic Church believes that works are what get us into Heaven. I don't believe that, I know that it is absolutely impossible for me to be good enough to get into Heaven. The only way I'm getting into Heaven is by believing that Jesus died on the cross and accepting His forgiveness.

General E may be correct, but you might want to double check your sources. The RCC teaches that Works without Faith (in "Jesus", presumably), is dead. And then there's those sticky passages from Revelation (22:12) and 2 Corinthians (5:10), both NT scripture last time I checked. In other words, Faith Alone is not enough, according to the Word...
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