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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> LucisArt and Basic Editing
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08/18/2007 04:09:59 PM · #1
Is the LucisArt filter allowed in basic editing?

I have searched the forums and even though it's been speculated upon in other threads, I haven't found an answer.
08/18/2007 04:13:58 PM · #2
Used to be but not anymore aparently.
Fine in advanced though.

There are other LEGAL ways to get the same effect. highlight shadows works well.
08/18/2007 04:20:34 PM · #3
I was just going to say that Marac.

This was all done, basic edit legal in CS2:
(well, except the text part anyway)
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19708/thumb/496494.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19708/thumb/496494.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

ETA: I did run a light tone mapping on this before hand.

Message edited by author 2007-08-18 16:43:12.
08/18/2007 04:21:03 PM · #4
Bummer! I tried shadow/highlight but I can't quite seem to get the same effect. I find it strange that tone mapping is allowed in Basic and not Lucis.
08/18/2007 04:21:27 PM · #5
Originally posted by MAK:

Used to be but not anymore aparently.
Fine in advanced though.

There are other LEGAL ways to get the same effect. highlight shadows works well.


In addition the improvements made by Adobe ACR/Lightroom allows you to pretty much do tone mapping in the RAW environment these days.
08/18/2007 04:23:46 PM · #6
My problem with tone mapping is that the picture was taken at 400 ISO so it gets a bit grainy if I tonemap it and with shadow/highlights I seem to get halos around the shadow areas.
08/18/2007 04:31:48 PM · #7
Originally posted by PeterPic:

Bummer! I tried shadow/highlight but I can't quite seem to get the same effect. I find it strange that tone mapping is allowed in Basic and not Lucis.

Go to the Shadow/Highlight and click on "Show More Options". Check to see that defaults are set as follows, top to bottom:
0 | 50 | 30 | 0 | 50 | 30 | +20 | 0 | Black & White clips both set to 0.01%, Click "Set as Defaults".
Then slide the shadow slider full on to the right, then go down to the Midtone contrast and slide to suite the shot.
08/18/2007 04:32:49 PM · #8
Originally posted by Brad:

I was just going to say that Marac.

This was all done, basic edit legal in CS2:
(well, except the text part anyway)
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19708/thumb/496494.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19708/thumb/496494.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


That's pretty damn good there Brad. be nice if you could enlighten us with the technique used.. <--- I type too slow

I have played around with lightroom and got the desired effect with fill light etc too, but being as lazy as I am I use Lucis in advanced

Message edited by author 2007-08-18 16:33:34.
08/18/2007 04:40:14 PM · #9
Originally posted by Brad:

Go to the Shadow/Highlight and click on "Show More Options". Check to see that defaults are set as follows, top to bottom:
0 | 50 | 30 | 0 | 50 | 30 | +20 | 0 | Black & White clips both set to 0.01%, Click "Set as Defaults".
Then slide the shadow slider full on to the right, then go down to the Midtone contrast and slide to suite the shot.


Thanks for that. It does seem to give a similar effect, but my highlights come out too bright, I'll play around some more.
08/23/2007 11:04:55 AM · #10
Brad,
Can you post the original pic so we can see if our methods achieve the same success as what you were able to get?
08/23/2007 11:13:06 AM · #11
Wow! I like this...
08/23/2007 12:15:12 PM · #12
Originally posted by wizardry:

Brad,
Can you post the original pic so we can see if our methods achieve the same success as what you were able to get?

Here is the original, resized only in Irfanview:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19708/thumb/576105.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19708/thumb/576105.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
(make sure you click on the View full-sized image to download a 1024x683 version)
08/23/2007 01:41:48 PM · #13
To go back to the original question, it seems to be allowed in Basic for now, but I believe the SC are considering it carefully at the moment.

Recent example of allowed LucisArts filter (19th in Upside Down II):

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/723/thumb/566858.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/723/thumb/566858.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
08/23/2007 04:53:51 PM · #14
Originally posted by craigester:

To go back to the original question, it seems to be allowed in Basic for now, but I believe the SC are considering it carefully at the moment.

Recent example of allowed LucisArts filter (19th in Upside Down II):

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/723/thumb/566858.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/723/thumb/566858.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


DAMN! I been missing out on all the fun then... HERE WE GO next open challenge is Lucisarts HEAVEN!
08/23/2007 05:22:55 PM · #15
Originally posted by craigester:

To go back to the original question, it seems to be allowed in Basic for now, but I believe the SC are considering it carefully at the moment.

Recent example of allowed LucisArts filter (19th in Upside Down II):

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/723/thumb/566858.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/723/thumb/566858.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


Is there a thread here that states (by SC) that it's legal?
08/23/2007 05:24:46 PM · #16
no there is no thread, and we're not prepared to say its legal, though we've allowed it up until now to evaluate the process and results.
08/23/2007 05:32:07 PM · #17
Originally posted by frisca:

no there is no thread, and we're not prepared to say its legal, though we've allowed it up until now to evaluate the process and results.


I know that some of the filters create the same effect as tonemapping, while a couple others actually create something, such as the plaid filter. I'm guessing that anyone who uses that or a similar filter is in danger of DQ.
08/23/2007 06:28:13 PM · #18
This photo would be legal in Advanced Editing, but no in Basic. No LucisArt filter was necessary...

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/52449/thumb/572775.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/52449/thumb/572775.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


Message edited by author 2007-08-23 18:28:44.
08/23/2007 07:05:24 PM · #19
Originally posted by frisca:

no there is no thread, and we're not prepared to say its legal, though we've allowed it up until now to evaluate the process and results.


How can you allow it when it goes against this rule in Basic Editing:

No “effects” filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur.
08/23/2007 07:35:49 PM · #20
Originally posted by KarenNfld:

Originally posted by frisca:

no there is no thread, and we're not prepared to say its legal, though we've allowed it up until now to evaluate the process and results.


How can you allow it when it goes against this rule in Basic Editing:

No “effects” filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur.


Its a lot more complicated than that. I don't mean to sound like a politician, but this is a discussion in progress, and so I can't make any comments about it until then. Also, please what I said above.
08/23/2007 08:15:33 PM · #21
Originally posted by KarenNfld:

How can you allow it when it goes against this rule in Basic Editing:

No “effects” filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur.


Yes, my read of this rule is that you can't use Lucis Art filters. Although, on the right photo, you can get a similar result to Wyeth with careful application of multiple USM filters. Brad's photo is another cool example of what can be done with the the right photo.

LucisArt Wyeth (or Draganizer) is also very much a layers based filter, and violates the layers rule. You can replicate this effect manually using layers and other standard filters (soft-light layers, high-pass filters). The fact that LucisArt does it all internally and merges all the layers into the result doesn't really make it legal to my thinking. If LucisArt is allowable, then I believe you could build legal filters to do pretty much anything you want, and doing advanced editing under Basic rules becomes a matter of buying or developing the right plugins. You could easily build a macro to do the same thing, and if the macro merges the layers when it's finished, and you close your eyes while it's running, then it doesn't use layers, just like LuciusArt doesn't. :)

But, it is up to the SC. I'm surprised that it's not officially illegal already. Thanks ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/7711.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/7711.gif', '/') + 1) . ' frisca for your comments. It will be interesting to know the outcome.


Message edited by author 2007-08-23 20:18:25.
08/23/2007 11:01:37 PM · #22
Thanks Brad...I gave a go at this but did not obtain the same results you did. Keep in mind that I use Corel PSP XI. I have PS CS2 and tried that as well but still was a little bit off. Thanks for the info though on how you did it.

Wizardry

Originally posted by Brad:

Originally posted by wizardry:

Brad,
Can you post the original pic so we can see if our methods achieve the same success as what you were able to get?

Here is the original, resized only in Irfanview:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19708/thumb/576105.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19708/thumb/576105.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
(make sure you click on the View full-sized image to download a 1024x683 version)
08/24/2007 01:16:28 AM · #23
.

Message edited by author 2007-08-24 01:17:05.
08/24/2007 01:18:31 AM · #24
WHAT have I done? MAK is not one to miss a loophole. <regrets posting>

Originally posted by MAK:

DAMN! I been missing out on all the fun then... HERE WE GO next open challenge is Lucisarts HEAVEN!
08/24/2007 01:51:45 AM · #25
Originally posted by KarenNfld:

Originally posted by frisca:

no there is no thread, and we're not prepared to say its legal, though we've allowed it up until now to evaluate the process and results.


How can you allow it when it goes against this rule in Basic Editing:

No “effects” filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur.


The thing is there are many other effects filters like the Lucis Arts filter that is legal under basic so it's not as cut and dry as it would appear based on that rule. Tonemapping, Unsharp Mask and Shadow/Highlights have been legal for some time now and all three can be used to create strong effects. Personally, I think none of these should be illegal as they can be used subtly to correct exposure and such.

Message edited by author 2007-08-24 01:52:56.
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