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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Joey L Complete Tutorial, ready!
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10/13/2007 12:03:02 PM · #26
Originally posted by dwterry:

Originally posted by Joey Lawrence:

I respect anyone's opinion who thinks it's too high- that's cool, just don't buy it. ;-)


And, for the record, I respect your readiness to price it in a way you see fit. You're the only one that needs to decide if you are making enough of the kind of sales you want to make based on the price you've chosen.

I'm only offering advice on "sales tactics" and make no attempt at stating what the product is actually worth. But a great product at an even better price can really fly off the shelves. (okay, I'll stop now)

No worries, I see your point and I'm very aware of "every man prices" and their pros/cons.
10/13/2007 12:07:09 PM · #27
I can understand most peoples initial reaction, but think of it like this. As was stated before, Joey is a Pro photographer offering this information up. I know that here in Dallas, when most Pro photographers come through town offering a workshop, they charge around $800-$1700 for it. I am assuming from the description that this dvd is going to be a longer and somewhat more in-depth version than his first one. In the first one he went over:

Equipment
Set-up
Post processing

All the types of stuff gone over in a typical workshop. So basically this dvd is going to be much the same as a workshop condensed into a dvd that you can watch over and over again. It won't have the same hands on kind of touch, nor will you be able to ask questions to a dvd, but it is also considerably cheaper than an actually workshop. When you think of it in that context, the price isn't that bad.

Message edited by author 2007-10-13 12:11:38.
10/13/2007 12:17:15 PM · #28
Originally posted by breadfan35:

I can understand most peoples initial reaction, but think of it like this. As was stated before, Joey is a Pro photographer offering this information up. I know that here in Dallas, when most Pro photographers come through town offering a workshop, they charge around $800-$1700 for it. I am assuming from the description that this dvd is going to be a longer and somewhat more in-depth version than his first one. In the first one he went over:

Equipment
Set-up
Post processing

All the types of stuff gone over in a typical workshop. So basically this dvd is going to be much the same as a workshop condensed into a dvd that you can watch over and over again. It won't have the same hands on kind of touch, nor will you be able to ask questions to a dvd, but it is also considerably cheaper than an actually workshop. When you think of it in that context, the price isn't that bad.


Very true, I have similar prices for my workshops as well, it can be much nicer to just get the tutorial and hound me with some e-mails if you have questions.

And don't forget the cost of buying 50 textures on a stock website! ;-)
10/13/2007 12:17:30 PM · #29
Just my two cents.. take it or leave it...

Joey is a pro.. he makes his living from film and photography and if someone were to take the time to read his credits you'd see this is his life.
Having said that, his dvd isn't the work of some random kid on dpc charging some random high price for the hell of it.

A friend re-framed my way of thinking a while ago... think about this: What is my time worth? (how much do you make an hour in your job) Then consider how many hours were put into bringing this dvd/download to life? Think about industry standards and prices out there from other pros.. I think you'll find its completely fair.. with the added bonus of knowing the creator and having the opportunity to ask further questions about the techniques shown.. that doesn't often happen when learning from a text book. Besides the bonus of supporting the success of one of our own.
He is a professional in the industry who is trying to share what he knows with the public and his work is equal to that of others in the industry. If you like what he produces and the style he has then save your pennies and buy it.. if you don't.. then don't.

Just my opinion.. :)
10/13/2007 12:20:03 PM · #30
Originally posted by goodman:

Originally posted by Joey Lawrence:

The pricing isn't a random number, but is a appraised value from many professionals who sell their own products. This price is actually quite fair compared to most other packages I've seen.

I respect anyone's opinion who thinks it's too high- that's cool, just don't buy it. ;-)

True, you could get some courses as someone mentioned, but in this case it's the same thing except learning from me.


...and save gas and learn in your own time.
it's brilliant joey, i know how many hours went into making it,
worth it for those that can afford it.



...and learn from an actual pro-photographer instead of a community college teacher who may only have minimal experience themselves.

as i said earlier, i think it's definitely worth it.
10/13/2007 12:26:26 PM · #31
Once the hardcopies are available, I'm getting mine. :-)
10/13/2007 12:27:50 PM · #32
... plus, Joey can jump REALLY high!

:-O
10/13/2007 12:27:57 PM · #33
I think it is very reasonably priced, maybe people are comparing the price to the first one? I took a single photoshop class at PNCA, it was more than the DVD. Uhhh and there is a dance remix version hidden within the DVD....thats gotta be worth something.

10/13/2007 12:34:49 PM · #34
Originally posted by JeffDay:

I think it is very reasonably priced, maybe people are comparing the price to the first one? I took a single photoshop class at PNCA, it was more than the DVD. Uhhh and there is a dance remix version hidden within the DVD....thats gotta be worth something.

Haha glad you found that dude
10/13/2007 12:50:17 PM · #35
I recognize where you were on the Karaoke !!!!! lol
10/13/2007 12:51:15 PM · #36
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

... plus, Joey can jump REALLY high!

:-O

and we got pictures of him doing so!
10/13/2007 12:52:12 PM · #37
The price is fair, the fact that he is willing to share his technique is unique and kudos to you for that Joey.

Think about the learning curve he went through, the time, know-how, the fact that you can email the creator to bug him is unique too.

Simple solution - If you can afford it, BUY IT
If you can't, DON"T

But don't knock the guy for making his living from what he loves and also try to remember, this is a young man with a god given talent and he is willing to share it with us.

If I could afford it I would buy it in a flash.

Good luck Joey.
10/13/2007 01:02:39 PM · #38
I just hope I'm not being taken the wrong way. I'm definitely *not* knocking the talent or the time that went into this. I think that is already self evident.

Think about the big movie studios that spend $100 million on the creation of a movie. I'm sure they would like nothing more than to sell the DVDs for $250 or more. At $100 million production costs, they are certainly worth it. But ... nobody would buy the DVD at that price. So they price for the masses.

Now, there's no way in heck that Joey would get what his time and effort were worth out of a $20 DVD. He doesn't have the same kind of market.

But how many people have already spoken up and said they think it's definitely worth it ... but they can't afford to buy it? See... in the end, it's really only "worth" what people are willing to pay for it.

Really, honestly, I'm only trying to be helpful. Not knocking Joey or his product or his efforts or his skill.
10/13/2007 01:07:25 PM · #39
Originally posted by MAK:

But don't knock the guy for making his living from what he loves and also try to remember, this is a young man with a god given talent and he is willing to share it with us.

If I could afford it I would buy it in a flash.

Good luck Joey.


Who's knocking the guy? All I see is a few people expressing their opinion of the price which they certainly entitled to do. I guess a person could always sell a lens or two to get a video tutorial.
10/13/2007 01:11:43 PM · #40
I bet it is an awesome DVD, but personally I see it is as Joey's own style. Sure you can put your own twists on it but it is still not your style. I'm not saying its a bad idea, for a lot of people this is an amazing tool, but for me, I want to be able to generate my own style and feel to my images. So when someone looks at a photo of mine they aren't like hey that kind of looks like a Joey Lawrence photo.
Again this is not a knock on Joey at all as I wish I had set in stone my own editing techniques and were able to sell them for $300.
Its just that its such a unique editing technique that its easily recognizable as Joey's. That for alot of shooting people do this editing isnt effective. This is more for the edgy crowd(and generally younger crowd). You wouldnt put textures and stuff on a classic portrait or wedding formals.

but thats all for now!
Hope you make some good sales JL!

-Dustin
10/13/2007 01:15:31 PM · #41
Originally posted by noisemaker:

I bet it is an awesome DVD, but personally I see it is as Joey's own style. Sure you can put your own twists on it but it is still not your style. I'm not saying its a bad idea, for a lot of people this is an amazing tool, but for me, I want to be able to generate my own style and feel to my images. So when someone looks at a photo of mine they aren't like hey that kind of looks like a Joey Lawrence photo.

-Dustin


I'm glad somebody finally said it.


10/13/2007 01:16:59 PM · #42
Originally posted by noisemaker:

I bet it is an awesome DVD, but personally I see it is as Joey's own style. Sure you can put your own twists on it but it is still not your style. I'm not saying its a bad idea, for a lot of people this is an amazing tool, but for me, I want to be able to generate my own style and feel to my images. So when someone looks at a photo of mine they aren't like hey that kind of looks like a Joey Lawrence photo.
Again this is not a knock on Joey at all as I wish I had set in stone my own editing techniques and were able to sell them for $300.
Its just that its such a unique editing technique that its easily recognizable as Joey's. That for alot of shooting people do this editing isnt effective. This is more for the edgy crowd(and generally younger crowd). You wouldnt put textures and stuff on a classic portrait or wedding formals.

but thats all for now!
Hope you make some good sales JL!

-Dustin

I have no style and I can't read. :-D I will enjoy my DVD.

Message edited by author 2007-10-13 13:17:52.
10/13/2007 01:17:57 PM · #43
I agree that it is too rich for me right now, but also fairly priced.

This is a whole TON better than the photoshop actions that people sell for hundreds of dollars and don't really teach you anything at all.

You just have to consider that Joey's teaching you how to fish with this, not selling the fish to you.. Course, if you think you already know how to fish, you might be a little skeptical ;)

Right now, you've outpriced this dude, but it doesn't mean I'm not tempted to save for it. I'd be interested to see some reviews from those that have bought it though.
10/13/2007 01:32:05 PM · #44
Perhaps a student discount? I'd love to get my hands on it, but my student loans are stretched to the max and $300 is a month of eating and then some.

Come on Joey! Help out the students!!!
10/13/2007 01:46:04 PM · #45
Originally posted by valkner:

Perhaps a student discount? I'd love to get my hands on it, but my student loans are stretched to the max and $300 is a month of eating and then some.

Come on Joey! Help out the students!!!


That's actually a good idea, I payed less for CS2 with an educational discount plus I would have to convert currency making it a higher cost again. Add 10-20% for us Aussies.

(I presume its in $US even though it doesn't say)
10/13/2007 01:52:33 PM · #46
Originally posted by Shecoya:

Just my two cents.. take it or leave it...

[snip]

He is a professional in the industry who is trying to share what he knows with the public . . .


Originally posted by MAK:

The price is fair, the fact that he is willing to share his technique is unique and kudos to you for that Joey.


This discussion really, really stretches the definition of the word "share" beyond anything I've ever understood it to mean. I could agree with "He is a professional in the industry trying to sell what he knows . . . " and "the fact that he is willing to sell . . . ". But share? I don't buy it. Sharing is what's done when someone here on the forums asks how to do something and gets some good advice, or when someone posts a tutorial or a "how I did this" thread. Does Nikon share its cameras? I don't think so, we buy them. For money. Nothing sharing like to it.

This isn't a criticism of Joey for doing what he's done. He has something, people want it, he's charging money. That's capitalism. And it seems pretty clear that Joey knows he's not "sharing" as he apparently first posted this thread in the "buy/sell" forum (from the original post that started the thread: "site council please move this thread if it violates and rules on the Buy/Sell forum. I'm not sure where to post this / if I am allowed"). The site council apparently moved it here (without marking it "moved"). Until I read the first post more closely, I wondered why Joey hadn't posted this in buy/sell given that there isn't a single tip, trick or relevant Q&A in the whole thread. There is a product for sale. Looks to me like Joey put it where it belonged to begin with.
10/13/2007 01:53:19 PM · #47
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Originally posted by noisemaker:

I bet it is an awesome DVD, but personally I see it is as Joey's own style. Sure you can put your own twists on it but it is still not your style. I'm not saying its a bad idea, for a lot of people this is an amazing tool, but for me, I want to be able to generate my own style and feel to my images. So when someone looks at a photo of mine they aren't like hey that kind of looks like a Joey Lawrence photo.

-Dustin


I'm glad somebody finally said it.


Perhaps it's Joey's own style here at DPC but this general style and technique have been around for quite some time. DPC is not the center of the photographic universe. There are LOTS of photographers that use this style and I think having the tutorial on this DVD would be beneficial to those wanting to compete for work with photographers outside of the DPC arena. Having the basics of this style would give you a foundation to build your own "edgy" style...if that's what you're wanting to do. That can't be seen as a bad thing.
10/13/2007 02:00:08 PM · #48
$250 for a joey dvd? SOLD! well, as soon as I get home from work.

I think the price is very fair, this is my favorite learning style and a very respected source for the information. Quick question, does this new dvd encompass what your first one had in it? or is it seperate material? If the material is different is there anybody out there that has a copy of the first dvd they're willing to part with?
10/13/2007 02:03:06 PM · #49
Originally posted by rheverly:


This discussion really, really stretches the definition of the word "share" beyond anything I've ever understood it to mean. I could agree with "He is a professional in the industry trying to sell what he knows . . . " and "the fact that he is willing to sell . . . ". But share? I don't buy it. Sharing is what's done when someone here on the forums asks how to do something and gets some good advice, or when someone posts a tutorial or a "how I did this" thread. Does Nikon share its cameras? I don't think so, we buy them. For money. Nothing sharing like to it.


I disagree. LOTS of professionals have processing "secrets" that they refuse to share with others, even for pay. When someone at this skill level markets his skills to others, that IS sharing. And it's of great value to a lot of people that want to develop their own edgy, commercial style for the marketplace.

R.
10/13/2007 02:03:21 PM · #50
The Buy/Sell forum is for Members Only, and is for actual camera equipment rather than products/prints/microstock referral codes, etc.

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