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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Are there any JPG Ribbon Hogs?? (podcast material)
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12/27/2007 01:04:10 PM · #1
Ok, that probably needs a little explanation since all the entires on DPC are submitted as JPG. This is really a RAW vs JPG question. I see so many DPC'ers insisting that RAW is the only way "real" photographers shoot, yet we are on a site that displays 640 pixel images at 150K on a computer monitor that displays only 72 dpi (standard). I have a hard time believing RAW provides that huge of an advantage to competition on DPC that if you're serious about ribbons you must shoot RAW.

In our next podcast we are thinking about doing a RAW vs JPG discussion. It has been suggested to me that I might have a hard time finding a "ribbon hog" on DPC who isn't shooting in RAW for all their photos. Again, I have a hard time believing that a person can't win a ton of ribbons shooting in JPG mode. If you have more than 5 ribbons that were shot in jpg mode (not converted to jpg from RAW), I'd like to interview you for our next podcast. I'm sure I'll find tons of interviewees willing to come on the show to tell me why RAW is the only way to shoot. I've also been told that whomever supports the jpg side of the argument better know their stuff (indicating that the RAW crowd has all the support on their side of the argument). I'd like to ask if anyone subscribes to the opinions of Ken Rockwell who states for example:

"You can't really change exposure after a raw file is shot, although the software that opens this data gives one the option to rescale the data and give the impression of changing exposure. You can get this same synthetic lightening from JPGs, too...."

"...I, like other photographers, prefer to make my adjustments in-camera and use the JPGs directly. Others prefer to spend even more time later twiddling in raw, but that's not for me. I get the look I need with JPGs and prefer to spend my time making more photos. If you're the sort of person who likes to twiddle and redo than by all means raw is for you."

"if you set the wrong white balance or underexposed you can always correct it later using, for instance, Photoshop's Levels, Curves and/or Color Balance features, among others....white balance can be adjusted in Photoshop even from JPGs.... I prefer using the "Set White Point" and "Set Neutral Gray" eyedroppers in the Levels command."

"I can see differences [between RAW and jpg] if I blow things up to 100% or bigger on my computer, but not in prints." (and I might add certainly not on a computer screen at 640 pixels and 72 dpi!)

"Image quality is the same in JPG and raw"

"Raw is needlessly tedious if you can get the right image to begin with."
12/27/2007 01:08:27 PM · #2
I do NOT shoot raw and have won a few ribbons. :-))

Soni wonders if her ribbons are really ribbons after all..hmmm..
12/27/2007 01:09:40 PM · #3
yep, you're the first person i thought of :)

... and actually the only person I can think of at the moment

Originally posted by Sonifo:

I do NOT shoot raw and have won a few ribbons. :-))

Soni wonders if her ribbons are really ribbons after all..hmmm..
12/27/2007 01:12:16 PM · #4
On another note... I really like what you wrote. Wish I could come up with stuff like this to argue my point. You said it all for me. Although I just might give raw another try if I get another computer not for better pictures but for a new experience.
12/27/2007 01:13:32 PM · #5
Sonifo, you're exactly the type of person I'm looking for. If there are other out there, let me know...
12/27/2007 01:20:26 PM · #6
I have 2 jpg ribbons... ;) I guess that's not going to prove your point though.
12/27/2007 01:28:33 PM · #7
Dr. Achoo...yeah, 2 out of 200 ribbons doesn't prove the jpg argument very well. Nice try though! LOL
12/27/2007 01:28:51 PM · #8
My first 10 ribbons were JPEGs. I didn't start shooting RAW until iPhoto supported the format in late 2005. Although I shoot RAW now, I don't think it's a huge benefit and may even be a disadvantage in some respects.

Message edited by author 2007-12-27 13:32:47.
12/27/2007 01:34:58 PM · #9
I wouldn't call myself a ribbon hog, but I have 5 ribbons and several 4th and 5th places and I never shoot RAW. All jpgs.
12/27/2007 01:38:33 PM · #10
Wouldn't ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' jjbeguin be the king of this category? 23 ribbons, all of them JPEG, and he doesn't even own a DSLR.
12/27/2007 01:39:47 PM · #11
I didn't start shooting RAW until about the beginning of June of this year. The work flow has changed, I like what I can do to get a shot cleaner before the jpeg editing, but I think I can safely say that I can pretty much do anything in jpeg that I can in RAW, including restoration work.

Of 14 Ribbons and 2 honorables, only 1 was shot in RAW.
12/27/2007 01:39:48 PM · #12
I would love an interview with jjbeguin, jpeg vs RAW notwithstanding.
12/27/2007 01:50:30 PM · #13
' . substr('//www.sonifopictures.com/graphics/eatpopcorn.gif', strrpos('//www.sonifopictures.com/graphics/eatpopcorn.gif', '/') + 1) . ' This should be fun!
12/27/2007 02:21:54 PM · #14
JPG or RAW it really DOES NOT matter... it's the photo itself, the composition, clarity, vision and challenge.

I don't believe in having really quality files in this website. Unless if your client asked you huge prints, you could take raws and post process them before the prints. Who has those kinds of clients? Pro photographers of course and that gives the impression of "RAW = Pro" which is correct but not in this website...

Agreed?
12/27/2007 03:01:18 PM · #15
Never shot jpg as far as I remember.
12/27/2007 03:06:25 PM · #16
Looks like I have plenty of options for jpg defenders. I'm at work now so I can't scour this forum and reply often. I'll make some contacts from home tonight. Thanks for all the input!
12/27/2007 03:08:46 PM · #17
Lee

Looking at this thread I have an idea...will speak offline with you..buzz me when you are free today.
12/27/2007 03:13:36 PM · #18
I have to say that showing only one photo out of possibly hundreds and showing it at 640 x isn't really going to show the advantages or disadvantages of any file format.

But, seems like an interesting enough cast.
12/27/2007 03:18:16 PM · #19
Cool... We get to hear this age old argument over a podcast... Can we do Nikon vs. Canon next? :-)
12/27/2007 03:28:10 PM · #20
Originally posted by robs:

Cool... We get to hear this age old argument over a podcast... Can we do Nikon vs. Canon next? :-)


I don't think there is any argument for that... Canon rules, everyone knows that ;)
12/27/2007 04:13:45 PM · #21
My only ribbon was shot not only in JPG, but with a point and shoot. :)
12/27/2007 04:38:55 PM · #22
One of my ribbons was jpg. It was an accident, though. I forgot to change the settings on the camera from the family snapshots the day before. :)
12/27/2007 04:42:41 PM · #23
You could make the whole show about debates, JPEG/RAW Canon/that other brand, Gadget Infinity/Pocket Wizards, free or cheap weddings
12/27/2007 04:46:14 PM · #24
I can see RAW removing some limitations, I sometimes have a good shot marred by blown out highlights or shadows with nothing in them. It is very possible to do good photos with JPG, you just have be aware of and work within the limits of your camera. I just came in at #6 in the Wabi-Sabi challenge with a Canon S5. No ribbon yet, and not with a point and shoot, though it's still a small sensor compact. I am pleased with it personally and as an example that more of it is the photographer than the gear.
12/27/2007 04:48:25 PM · #25
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I have to say that showing only one photo out of possibly hundreds and showing it at 640 x isn't really going to show the advantages or disadvantages of any file format.


I have to agree with this. I have had some photos that looked and scored pretty decent because the image size covered up some flaws visible at larger sizes.

If I could make a suggestion...
I don't think there will be too much to debate about this topic, but what might make a good and useful topic along these lines is how to take great photos within the limits of the JPG format.

Message edited by author 2007-12-27 18:27:10.
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