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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> PDP Podcast - RAW vs. JPEG!
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01/02/2008 11:03:53 PM · #1
We have just completed the next episode of the Podcasts for Digital Photographers.

Well here it is folks, another edition of the new “Podcast for Digital Photographers.” This week Lee and I attempted to tackle the ever controversial topic of RAW vs. JPG. In our first attempt at a round table discussion, we asked three individuals to join us in an open discussion about the benefits and drawbacks to shooting in RAW vs JPG and specifically, how it relates to DPC. While the hair and fur didn’t exactly go flying as you might expect, there were obvious points of disagreement and matters of opinion. The show will be of particular interest to those who are new to the debate to understand some of the common arguments for and against shooting in RAW vs. JPG. Please let us know what you think after having a listen!

The round table discussion consisted of the following members -

' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' FocusPoint
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' levyj413
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Brad
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' lkn4truth
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Judi

I would also like to introduce the newest member of our team....' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' levyj413. Jeffrey will now be responsible for

translating all the podcasts (current and archived) into text for the hearing impaired. Thankyou so much Jeffrey.

So...onto the Podcast.

RAW vs. JPEG PODCAST! Who will remain standing?

Message edited by author 2008-01-03 14:16:14.
01/02/2008 11:12:30 PM · #2
What a great discussion!

The new links to the pod casts are:

//www.digitalphotopod.com
//www.photoproradio.com
//www.dpcradio.com

Update your faves!

All roads point to PDP!!!!

Message edited by author 2008-01-02 23:55:21.
01/02/2008 11:27:03 PM · #3
Once again Wazza...we must thankyou for your fantastic efforts and all the time you put into this project...thanks babe.
01/02/2008 11:29:37 PM · #4
I'll be listening to it on the way to work in the morning. Thanks.
01/02/2008 11:30:05 PM · #5
Originally posted by Judi:

Once again Wazza...we must thankyou for your fantastic efforts and all the time you put into this project...thanks babe.


Aw Shucks...

:-)
01/02/2008 11:33:57 PM · #6
Good stuff guys! Needs to be put on a sticky thread here :-D
01/02/2008 11:38:49 PM · #7
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Good stuff guys! Needs to be put on a sticky thread here :-D


BUMP

*poor man's sticky thread*
01/02/2008 11:40:29 PM · #8
FWIW, I always shoot RAW except when I don't.
01/02/2008 11:45:17 PM · #9
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

FWIW, I always shoot RAW except when I don't.


Good for you.

There is nothing wrong with RAW... I think I go back and forth with it. I usually take JPG for DPC stuff, or other things that are not so important... Why? it's easy and fast to work with... also I like my burst mode to take more pictures instead of giving break at 5th shot...

Weddings, portraits RAW only
01/03/2008 01:15:51 AM · #10
bumpity bumpity bumpity
01/03/2008 01:32:48 AM · #11
I still don't understand how come a CD looses image integrity in time!!! Digital records should not be losing anything since they are digital, one's and zero's. If you lose a few, nothing would work, or crash. Very interesting to learn this, I have now a different view to digital records. Although I still need some more convincing though.

**by the way this is the link to your podcast site ;)**

Message edited by author 2008-01-03 01:34:54.
01/03/2008 02:32:52 AM · #12
I really did look sound taller - way cool!

Message edited by author 2008-01-03 02:37:01.
01/03/2008 04:59:19 AM · #13
Originally posted by Brad:

I really did look sound taller - way cool!


Yup....and your hair looked fine...lmao!
01/03/2008 07:48:04 AM · #14
Please send your feedbacks here or PM ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Judi what you want to hear, or are you happy what you hear... Also, if you would like to be in the program, again, let ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Judi know, she is collecting names and scheduling programs with new topics...

So, stop by and try new Podcast about RAW vs. JPG

Message edited by author 2008-01-03 08:42:19.
01/03/2008 09:25:23 AM · #15
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

FWIW, I always shoot RAW except when I don't.


Good for you.

There is nothing wrong with RAW... I think I go back and forth with it. I usually take JPG for DPC stuff, or other things that are not so important... Why? it's easy and fast to work with... also I like my burst mode to take more pictures instead of giving break at 5th shot...

Weddings, portraits RAW only


My point exactly.

01/03/2008 09:49:41 AM · #16
I'm not sure I agree on the idea of JPEGs degrading over time. The nearest I have seen is some images on a floppy disk that became hard to read. The images did not simply degrade in quality, they were either unreadable or large blocks of the image were clearly scrambled and were garbage due to missing data. This may be what was being referred to. Perhaps the way in which RAW files are encoded would not be affected by this bit loss as much, but the files themselves ought to be just as susceptible to bit loss. There are certainly many other variables that can affect the impression that the files have degraded.
01/03/2008 10:03:56 AM · #17
I wonder if the applications have something to do with "degrading" feeling. Older applications probably process data weaker, or different format, when new ones read it, probably they don't come out the way they do with original program, or older versions of the program.

I am not sure how a data gets degrades, if you loose on or two bit from the data, it either crashes, or you see one place of the data gives error, such as line, or color disturbance :/

*linky to podcast*

Message edited by author 2008-01-03 10:05:01.
01/03/2008 10:40:46 AM · #18
Originally posted by yospiff:

I'm not sure I agree on the idea of JPEGs degrading over time. The nearest I have seen is some images on a floppy disk that became hard to read. The images did not simply degrade in quality, they were either unreadable or large blocks of the image were clearly scrambled and were garbage due to missing data. This may be what was being referred to. Perhaps the way in which RAW files are encoded would not be affected by this bit loss as much, but the files themselves ought to be just as susceptible to bit loss. There are certainly many other variables that can affect the impression that the files have degraded.


Opening and closing an image or copying and pasting the file doesn't degrade the image.

Since jpg is a compressed file, there is an algorithm that removes some data from what's stored when the file is originally saved and figures out what that missing information should be put in when the file is opened. What does affect the image is repeatedly re-run through the compression some data tends to go missing or gets altered as the process is repeated over and over.

See here for some test images that show this effect.
01/03/2008 10:47:59 AM · #19
Ok, compressing over and over again should do some bad in the image file. Compressing an image is to get rid of some data from the image, and each time different data might be lost... and that could be correct. But, staying in the shelf and loosing quality by just sitting there!!! I don't know.
01/03/2008 11:02:28 AM · #20
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Ok, compressing over and over again should do some bad in the image file. Compressing an image is to get rid of some data from the image, and each time different data might be lost... and that could be correct. But, staying in the shelf and loosing quality by just sitting there!!! I don't know.


That would only be possible from the physical deterioration of the storage media itself.

Something like a HD that gets stored next to a magnet and the magnetic field scrambles a part of the file or a CD/DVD that you write files on and it gets a scratch or the dye fades over time.

That's not exclusive to jpg files, or any specific computer files though.
01/03/2008 12:10:58 PM · #21
Thanks again to all of our guests for coming on the show. I hope that the information is useful to some members of DPC who have been interested in the whole RAW vs JPG debate.
01/03/2008 03:09:15 PM · #22
BUMP-PU DAAAAAAAA
BUMP-PO DAAAAAAAA
BUMP-PI DAAAAAAAA
Bump


www.dpcradio.com (AKA "DPC PODCAST", AKA "the GREAT PODCAST")
01/03/2008 03:11:07 PM · #23
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

BUMP-PU DAAAAAAAA
BUMP-PO DAAAAAAAA
BUMP-PI DAAAAAAAA
Bump


www.dpcradio.com (AKA "DPC PODCAST", AKA "the GREAT PODCAST")


Youre assuming thats because youre on it? :P
01/03/2008 03:16:05 PM · #24
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:


Youre assuming thats because youre on it? :P


EXACTLY ;)

Wouldn't you?

Talking about that, you can if you want. Send pm to ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Judi... and get your mike and headphone ready :)

Message edited by author 2008-01-03 15:19:11.
01/03/2008 03:18:03 PM · #25
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

BUMP-PU DAAAAAAAA
BUMP-PO DAAAAAAAA
BUMP-PI DAAAAAAAA
Bump


www.dpcradio.com (AKA "DPC PODCAST", AKA "the GREAT PODCAST")


Youre assuming thats because youre on it? :P


EXACTLY ;)

Wouldn't you?

Talking about that, you can if you want. Send pm to ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Judi... and get your mike and headphone ready :)


ohh Leo what a sexy voice you got. LoL :P

Great stuff there guys. ya'll looking sharp :)
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