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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> Rude comments have got to stop
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02/18/2008 02:57:35 AM · #1
Something needs to be done about the rude comments left by some members. Especially those aimed not at the photo, but the people in them.

SC if you don't care enough to remove comments when reported, give us a delete comment button. It's amazing how quickly a non-PC comment in the forums gets hidden. But rude and hurtful comments left on photos aimed at the models are left indefinitely.

It pisses me off quite frankly. We as a community need to put our foot dowm, now. Or it's only going to get worse.

Message edited by author 2008-02-18 03:26:58.
02/18/2008 03:14:02 AM · #2
are you saying that the SC ignored you? how dare they!(being serious) *whispers* examples...?*runs away*

Message edited by author 2008-02-18 03:14:38.
02/18/2008 03:18:29 AM · #3
Yup, I do at times.

I'd point them out, but I'd likely get reprimanded.
02/18/2008 03:47:43 AM · #4
i mean you're right these offending comments are very annoying and hurtfull sometimes, but i'm against a "delete comment" button otherwise many people will just leave the really nice comments and delete all the "negative", means helpful, comments, which will turn dpc into a place where different opinions can be just deleted and ignored.
then again some people here feel personally offended very easily...

ETA: having that said, i have to agree with you, that SC should intervene more radical, when comments really become hurtfull and offending against certain people. it's a different situation with political comments, though...

ETA II: ok, just saw the other thread, interesting discussion going on there...;)

Message edited by author 2008-02-18 03:54:33.
02/18/2008 03:59:28 AM · #5
ah, nevermind I found it. hmm, I'm on the fence about the delete button too. I think too many DPCers will use it's powers for evil instead of good. But yeah rude comments are sucky fo' sho'.
02/18/2008 08:48:48 AM · #6
Why not just give people the OPTION? Then again, a simple answer as to WHY this can't be done would be helpful, too...

eta - Leroy, if SC won't do anything, have you tried contacting the 'offender'? I mean, they MIGHT have just been joking around (we do get a lil crazy around here sometimes LOL)

Message edited by author 2008-02-18 08:51:05.
02/18/2008 09:02:40 AM · #7
Just a quick response...

Speaking as one SC member (I'm not sure how the others feel), I did not find the two comments you reported to be rude. They were constructive criticisms. One suggested in simple terms that they didn't find one of your models to be attractive -- they didn't say it in a rude manner. The other one was blunt, but simply pointed out that she looked bored. Again, it really wasn't something I would consider to be rude.

Your retaliatory comment WAS rude, and I have removed it, and this kind of action will not be tolerated.

When you post shots, particularly of the nature you post, you're going to have to accept that people are not only going to critique the lighting and composition, but since you're in charge of posing the models, etc., their attributes and poses are going to be critiqued as well. If you aren't able to handle that kind of criticism, it would be best to stick with landscapes or other non-human subjects.

If we allowed everyone to push a button on the site every time they wanted to zap an "offensive" comment, then guess what will happen. Every single shot on the site would suddenly have nothing but rave reviews on it, and people who come here to truly learn how to improve shots will be left with nothing to learn from. You know that is exactly what would happen.

Leroy, you're a great photographer and I am among those who enjoy your work. Ya just gotta understand that criticisms are going to be part of the deal, and people aren't always super elegant about posting them.
02/18/2008 09:04:42 AM · #8
I don't know which comments you are referring to Leroy but I agree it's not on.

However, consider this:

Most people look at models in photos on a purely aesthetic level (and why not - it's a photo!). They aren't necessarily considering them as people, with personalities and feelings...at least in the context of the photo, where there are a number of elements involved (not just the model/s). When they then make a rude comment it isn't a personal dig at that person per se...although that person would feel hurt by it...it is a comment on the aesthetic appeal in that photograph to that particular viewer.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you might be too close to your models to be able to either be objective, or at least take comments about the looks of your friends less personally.

Again, I've not seen these comments so apologies if I'm out of line here. All I'm saying is, from an innocent bystander/devil's advocate/clueless point of view you might be oversensitive because of the relationship you have with your friends and models. Also, Leroy, you do shoot some risque stuff that is challenging in comparison to the vast majority of peer submitted images here. You have to expect this kind of flak from the miserable talentless trolls (a tiny minority) that get the democratic right to vote and comment the same as you and I.

N

Message edited by author 2008-02-18 09:06:24.
02/18/2008 09:06:27 AM · #9
I'm not sure... half of me thinks it's just ppl being vindictive or malicious or having a sucky dat the prompts the rude comments. The other, objective, half thinks that it is their gut reaction to go "why the hell did you do that?" which I think is entirely ok, because it's an honest and triggered reaction.

Since you didn't provide examples (you don't have to include usernames) I can only guess at what comments were left. If it's something personal about someone's mother or totally far and wide off the point that involves 'sensitive' stuff, then i'm with you, but if it's gut-reaction comments then I honestly don't mind- at least it gets a reaction and not a "meh..."
02/18/2008 09:11:44 AM · #10
edit - probably better to bite my tongue on this one, so...nevermind. :-)

Message edited by author 2008-02-18 09:27:23.
02/18/2008 12:01:57 PM · #11
Originally posted by alanfreed:


Your retaliatory comment WAS rude, and I have removed it, and this kind of action will not be tolerated.


If you notice, I reported my own comment, just to get SC's attention. There have been many times the report comment request has seemingly gone ignored.

I'm not going to accept that just because a photo is nude that rude comments about the model are acceptable. It's disrespectful and you guys know it. You guys are seriously dropping the ball on this issue and it's just going o get worse if some action is not taken.

Now, we can play nice, or we can continue the status quo.

02/18/2008 12:07:04 PM · #12
have you taken this up with who made the comment originally? I had a look through your recent comments and didn't notice anything I would consider rude/offensive. I saw a comment that had something to do with $20 but nothing that got me the slightest bit irritated.

And also, a lot of nude pictures have potentially rude comments made about them, usually about the model's physical assets or something similar, and usually at the model's expense.

Of course, i don't know which comment you're personally referring to so I can only speculate and say what I think with limited information. And saying we are dropping the ball over the issue and whatever else is rather uncalled for as we do not know which comment was considered offensive in the first place. PM the poster of the comment, maybe you misinterpreted it?
02/18/2008 12:17:00 PM · #13
The "reported comments" are never ignored. Every one of them is reviewed, and we discuss them when necessary. Like I said, I don't feel that the comments you received were, in fact, "rude." They weren't complimentary, but that doesn't automatically make them "rude." We are NOT dropping the ball on the issue, and we are as fair as humanly possible when it comes to these things.

We don't want to get into the habit of removing comments every time someone hears something they don't want to hear. That's ridiculous, and highly unfair.

Nowhere did I say that "just because a photo is nude" that rude comments are acceptable. They're just as open to criticism and scrutiny as anything else, though, and you're going to have things critiqued in those shots pertaining to the models because they are the subject, and their appearance is a reflection of your work as the photographer.

As for "playing nice," if you decide that you're going to retaliate against people who leave comments you don't like, you will have commenting privileges revoked and/or other bans imposed. End of story. Consider that a friendly warning.

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by alanfreed:


Your retaliatory comment WAS rude, and I have removed it, and this kind of action will not be tolerated.


If you notice, I reported my own comment, just to get SC's attention. There have been many times the report comment request has seemingly gone ignored.

I'm not going to accept that just because a photo is nude that rude comments about the model are acceptable. It's disrespectful and you guys know it. You guys are seriously dropping the ball on this issue and it's just going o get worse if some action is not taken.

Now, we can play nice, or we can continue the status quo.
02/18/2008 12:21:44 PM · #14
I also reviewed all the comments you reported, Leroy, and while they weren't flattering, they weren't rude. They were simply blunt. Are you suggesting, for example, that a person cannot constructively criticize your subject, ever? One of the comments said "not an attractive belly". How is that rude? How does that fall afoul of the ToS? Why should that be removed? Maybe its YOUR fault as a photographer that the belly didn't look attractive or flattering. Why is it automatically an indictment of your model? Take the criticism for what its worth. We DO remove true rude comments. Honest, blunt comments don't meet that standard.
02/18/2008 12:26:56 PM · #15
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

... I'm not going to accept that just because a photo is nude that rude comments about the model are acceptable. ...

So, if a model is gorgeous and a turnon (everyone has their own interpretation of this to be sure), and a comment is made that the model is stunning; that's acceptable? If on the other hand a model is rather large and unappealing (again, subjective to personal interpretation), and a comment is made that the model used for the nude shoot is somewhat of a turnoff, that's not acceptable?

Comments are made all the time about subject matter. Post a shot of a large garden spider in a dew-covered web and some will mention that the spider has amazing colors, while others will mention that they hate spiders and it's gross. Ditto for snakes, kids with runny noses, etc...

In the case of the photo being discussed here you also have subject content to consider. It's not just about a nude model in a tasteful "artsy" pose. This photo is quite suggestive and borders on the edge of soft porn. On top of that you have a girl on girl scenario playing out - not everyone likes that, or wants to see it.

So, I would counter the comment of "just because a photo is nude..." with just because a subject/model is nude doesn't automatically mean it's a tastefully done, artistic photo that requires great admiration by all.
02/18/2008 12:27:42 PM · #16
so would it be possible to have a middle ground & give the photographer a choice not to make -some- comments public

presume you would show off a image to the model & have some of the comments come up unflattering would be distressing to say the least )no matter how true(
02/18/2008 12:28:14 PM · #17
Originally posted by frisca:

I also reviewed all the comments you reported, Leroy, and while they weren't flattering, they weren't rude. They were simply blunt. Are you suggesting, for example, that a person cannot constructively criticize your subject, ever? One of the comments said "not an attractive belly". How is that rude? How does that fall afoul of the ToS? Why should that be removed? Maybe its YOUR fault as a photographer that the belly didn't look attractive or flattering. Why is it automatically an indictment of your model? Take the criticism for what its worth. We DO remove true rude comments. Honest, blunt comments don't meet that standard.


If I said, "Hey you're fat." Would that not be taken as rude? It is. The models are not here to be criticized. This is not HotorNot. That comment in itself is uncalled for.

Or we can just go around leaving comments "Hey, you're a fat ass." What's the difference? Or, hey, she's a slut?

Honestly, if I find it rude, what's the big deal in SC removing it? Huh? I'm choosing to not have the comment on MY photo. Sorry, but your policy (bluntly, but not rudely) sucks ass.

Message edited by author 2008-02-18 12:29:05.
02/18/2008 12:30:20 PM · #18
Are you HONESTLY trying to say that "not an attractive belly" is the same as "what a fatass" ? If so, clearly there is nothing further to talk since there is NO ROOM for crticism of a model/pose in your plane of existence.
02/18/2008 12:31:07 PM · #19
You probably won't find my name on any comments regarding my opinion on a person's appearance - The minds of artists and photogrpahers have often transcended common notions of beauty and push the envelope for people. Please don't let this stuff alter or reduce your submissions - please continue and remember some people are shallow.

There is a huge risk when putting this stuff anywhere on the internet (including this great community here at DPC). People that allow their image to be displayed and voted on here have to understand that there is a potential for hurtful comments - that's why many people don't voluntarily allow it.

t-cent

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by alanfreed:


Your retaliatory comment WAS rude, and I have removed it, and this kind of action will not be tolerated.


If you notice, I reported my own comment, just to get SC's attention. There have been many times the report comment request has seemingly gone ignored.

I'm not going to accept that just because a photo is nude that rude comments about the model are acceptable. It's disrespectful and you guys know it. You guys are seriously dropping the ball on this issue and it's just going o get worse if some action is not taken.

Now, we can play nice, or we can continue the status quo.

02/18/2008 12:31:57 PM · #20
I originally posted this in another thread by mistake. I think it may apply here

maybe SC can make a rule about whats accetable for a comment.Other sites have rules in place for accetable behavior. If the user goes over the rules they will be issued a warning, 3 warnings and your out. It would be up to SC to decide if the comment was tuly offensive.

Just my opinion.

Edit: Maybe it doesn't apply either. But still a suggestion

02/18/2008 12:34:53 PM · #21
Originally posted by iamkmaniam:

I originally posted this in another thread ...

Delete comment button
BTW - I still disagree, regardless of what thread it's in. :-)
02/18/2008 12:36:04 PM · #22
We do have rules/guidelines for what is acceptable and what is not.

The comments in questions were found not to be in violation of the ToS (our benchmark)

Section 4.2 of the ToS is generally what we go by.
02/18/2008 12:42:30 PM · #23
Originally posted by karmat:

We do have rules/guidelines for what is acceptable and what is not.

The comments in questions were found not to be in violation of the ToS (our benchmark)

Section 4.2 of the ToS is generally what we go by.

Oh yeah...forgot about those ==> Terms of Use :-\
02/18/2008 12:42:43 PM · #24
I think there is a fine line here and unfortunately you both are on opposite sides of it.

"The lighting and pose accentuates the models belly in an unflattering way"

"Not an attractive belly"

"Your model is fat"

Really, all three things say the same thing in a different way. "Not an attractive belly could go to either side of the fence IMO, it really depends on whether they were talking about the model or the way the photo was taken.

While I'd like to assume that because this is a photography site the commenter was referring to the way the photo was shot. However on the flip side this site is very popular and both photographers and potential clients look at this site. If the model's "clients" were to see the picture on here and see the comments would it impact their decision to hire her? Maybe.

IMO, if the photographer / model find it offensive and the comment could be taken either way I agree it should be removed because it's more than just the photographer's feelings on the line - it's the model's too.

While I can see the analogy of ugly landscapes and comments about it being similar - the ugly mountain you shot is not a person and therefore has no feelings, so the two things don't really match up.
02/18/2008 12:52:27 PM · #25
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by iamkmaniam:

I originally posted this in another thread ...

Delete comment button
BTW - I still disagree, regardless of what thread it's in. :-)

I brought it up first. :-P I have no opinion on the comments that generated this thread, but I do think it is a reasonable request to give editorial control over the comments section of the photos we own, as seen at most other sites.

I completely disagree with this analysis:

Originally posted by alanfreed:

If we allowed everyone to push a button on the site every time they wanted to zap an "offensive" comment, then guess what will happen. Every single shot on the site would suddenly have nothing but rave reviews on it, and people who come here to truly learn how to improve shots will be left with nothing to learn from. You know that is exactly what would happen.

I don't happen to think that most people here are either that shallow or that immature. And I don't agree with the argument that goes something like, "We have to allow borderline commentary in order to have constructive commentary," or, "We can't allow everyone to be able to delete comments because a few will use the opportunity to make themselves look better."

I enjoy this site and appreciate the hard work put into it, and I understand the nature of volunteerism, but sometimes I feel treated as though I'm in kindergarten.
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