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04/23/2008 10:17:11 AM · #101
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Scalvert why do you suppose that I think I am better than you because I am a Christian. --> God chose the crap of this world to be his children only because the rest considered themselves too good for him. ...The truth is that you can have an eternity in heaven with me. ... I love you and want you to know what I know and have the salvation that I have.

You clearly believe yourself to be among the "chosen ones," with superior knowledge (including private conversations!) of an invisible deity, and have openly stated your intent to convert others. I repeat: this is not the place to divide members into "us" and "they who will burn in Hell because they don't believe as I do."


You are a chosen one too. You just don't know it yet. If it were not so then I wouldn't be having this conversation with you. I believe that God has chosen you--- he created you --- he awaits your knocking so that you too can have exactly what I have. Nothing special about me. His Love is reaching out to you through me. I can't reason away your unbelief but I can show you how God has impacted my life. I can at least point you in the right direction. It is not that God came to me and forced himself upon me. He waited until I came to him. He waits for you too with a patience that is incomprehensible. Ask yourself why you feel so offended by a bunch of crazies that believe in an invisible God that doesn't exist? If you truly are convinced of his non-existence then you wouldn't be is my contention. I certainly don't pretend to speak for you but that is my opinion. Otherwise you would simply ignore this thread.
04/23/2008 10:25:44 AM · #102
Originally posted by keegbow:

...does this mean as a Canon user I can not look at a Nikon thread??
If christians believe they should be able to divide this community on the basis of religious beliefs then I suggest they start with the line on the left.


How is a single thread where Christians can share fellowship with each other any more "divisive" of the community than a thread where Nikonians can share tips and Nikon experiences with each other? And if Canon users came into that Nikon thread and contributed nothing but "You Nikonians are all losers and should switch to Canon" then would not THAT be the divisive element?

This community is fairly special for its tolerance of "affinity threads" and its general disapproval of those who do not share the affinity but seek to disrupt the harmony of the thread. Why should it be any less tolerant of a "Christian affinity" thread? Why are some of our members so determined to attack/refute the Christians every time they speak to their faith?

R.
04/23/2008 10:27:02 AM · #103
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Ask yourself why you feel so offended by a bunch of crazies that believe in an invisible God that doesn't exist?

I'm not offended by your belief in the least. I'm offended by your attempt to carve religious niches in an open community. Nice job of not drawing attention to the fact that you are a Christian on DPC.
04/23/2008 10:30:28 AM · #104
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

How is a single thread where Christians can share fellowship with each other any more "divisive" of the community than a thread where Nikonians can share tips and Nikon experiences with each other?

Nikonians are not an ethnic, racial, gender, religious or other protected group... and their discussion doesn't generally end up in Rants.

Message edited by author 2008-04-23 10:31:10.
04/23/2008 10:32:41 AM · #105
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Why are some of our members so determined to attack/refute the Christians every time they speak to their faith?

Not true. Only when they drag millions of innocent people down to the fiery depths of their imaginary hells do people start getting offended. Only when they insist on having one-sided conversations where they force people into their universe of belief in the haughtiest, most high-handed manner do people start getting offended. Only when they clearly have goals of division, when they in fact begin the "us versus them" outlook, when they take a contentious issue like this and seek to make it part and parcel of all users' everyday experience here, do people start getting offended. I would ask you, at what point would you allow people to speak up against what is clearly an offensive position to them?
04/23/2008 10:38:45 AM · #106
Originally posted by Louis:

I would ask you, at what point would you allow people to speak up against what is clearly an offensive position to them?


Why is it offensive to you that THIS particular affinity thread, a place where Christians can share their feelings and experiences, exists? Are you saying that our BELIEFS are offensive to you? It seems to me you are.

Speaking for myself only, although I am a Christian I am in no way offended when I encounter the belief-system of, say, a Muslim, nor am I in the least offended by (or threatened by) vocal atheists who believe in no God at all.

I repeat the assertion, and the question: this thread is not trying to convert anybody, it is an affinity thread why does the expression of belief within it offend you?

R.
04/23/2008 10:41:47 AM · #107
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Are you saying that our BELIEFS are offensive to you?

Certainly not. You only need to re-read what I wrote to see what I find offensive.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

this thread is not trying to convert anybody...

Now there you're wrong. Are you too close to it to see how wrong you are? The OP, in all his responses, clearly has a singular mission of conversion. His latest post is proof positive.
04/23/2008 10:42:03 AM · #108
Originally posted by Bear_Music:


How is a single thread where Christians can share fellowship with each other any more "divisive" of the community than a thread where Nikonians can share tips and Nikon experiences with each other? And if Canon users came into that Nikon thread and contributed nothing but "You Nikonians are all losers and should switch to Canon" then would not THAT be the divisive element?

R.

To answer your question Bear.... Ken stated
some of these responses from people who really have no reason to even look at this thread

This tells me as I non-christian I'm not entitled to comment on this thread or even look at it???

As a photographer I'm always looking at new and better equipment and always keep up with the Canon/Nikon debat and would switch at a blink if I thought the other side had more to offer!!

04/23/2008 10:45:31 AM · #109
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

If you have no interest in the topic, why even post in here?? If you're interested in a debate about beliefs, there are other threads for that as well.

Umm...

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I invite all to read in the science and theology II thread my salvation testimony and request that you all place your testimony for all of the atheists to read. Let's all be gardeners for God and plant some seeds there. ...We all need to stay in touch or form a group or have a forum on here just for us.

Until yesterday, my only involvement in this thread was to hide anti-Christian provocations made by others. I DO have an active interest in preventing divisiveness on this site. A special forum for Nikon owners or gardening enthusiasts is one thing, but carving out an exclusive area for blacks, Jews, gays, republicans or any other socially charged group is a very different matter with no positive outcome.


I don't buy this argument. Why is having a Christian forum or whatever on here somehow socially charged any more than the science and theology thread is? You seem to have no problem with that. There were no posts in this thread from Christians that were offensive. Surely you believe in freedom of speech. No one was crying fire in a crowded theatre. If indeed you have a problem with a Christian forum then you should have a big problem with this thread even being in existence. People should be free to share their faith in an unobtrusive way on here or anywhere else regardless of what that faith is. I would not go out posting and proselytizing to people who were not already discussing the topic to begin with. No one is trying to take over here and force God down anyones throat. That is why the thread is titled "calling all Christians" and not "Hey let's try to convert everyone on DPC wether they want to hear what we have to say or not: who's with me?". You invite me to ask you to accept Jesus as your savior when you enter this conversation telling me that I think I am special or chosen and taking offense. I am then compelled to tell you why I am not and how you can have what I have. His Love is awesome and he does want you to come into relationship to Him. I repeat I am not special. Anyone who knocks... the door will be opened. I tried telling about this in the science and theology thread but was rebuffed and called names like "My silly little monkey brother" and had my faith equated with believeing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. I just would like to have a forum where I didn't have to be called names and made fun of and still discuss my faith. Why is that socially charged or offensive?
04/23/2008 10:46:13 AM · #110
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I repeat the assertion, and the question: this thread is not trying to convert anybody, it is an affinity thread

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I invite all to read in the science and theology II thread my salvation testimony and request that you all place your testimony for all of the atheists to read. Let's all be gardeners for God and plant some seeds there. ...We all need to stay in touch or form a group or have a forum on here just for us. ...Maybe forum isnt the right word? Something more than just a thread though is what I was going for.

04/23/2008 10:56:25 AM · #111
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Ask yourself why you feel so offended by a bunch of crazies that believe in an invisible God that doesn't exist?

I'm not offended by your belief in the least. I'm offended by your attempt to carve religious niches in an open community. Nice job of not drawing attention to the fact that you are a Christian on DPC.


Actually the part about me not drawing attention was someone else's comment that I inadvertently cut in half with my reply to them. I corrected the post. Not my comment.
As to your offense at Christians congregating on a forum I would ask Why? What difference could it possibly make to you if people of faith want to share their faith with each other? Are you worried that the social fabric of the site will be damaged beyond all repair and DPC will collapse under the weight of this huge division. I submit there will be no division at all. Why would there be. Will all of the Christians then do battle with the non-Christians? Will people begin to hate those of us who are Christians. What is your fear here. Do you seek to protect us from persecution? If you don't believe in God then shouldn't you simply look in pity on the poor stupid Christians who are so feeble that they can't logic their way to the obvious conclusion of God's non-existence.
04/23/2008 11:02:14 AM · #112
Originally posted by dponlyme:

then shouldn't you simply look in pity on the poor stupid Christians who are so feeble that they can't logic their way to the obvious conclusion of God's non-existence.


As I sit here with my beer I now relise that this is most logical thing you have stated in this thread.... please enlighten me some more regarding your stupidity!!
04/23/2008 11:04:44 AM · #113
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Why are some of our members so determined to attack/refute the Christians every time they speak to their faith?

Not true. Only when they drag millions of innocent people down to the fiery depths of their imaginary hells do people start getting offended. Only when they insist on having one-sided conversations where they force people into their universe of belief in the haughtiest, most high-handed manner do people start getting offended. Only when they clearly have goals of division, when they in fact begin the "us versus them" outlook, when they take a contentious issue like this and seek to make it part and parcel of all users' everyday experience here, do people start getting offended. I would ask you, at what point would you allow people to speak up against what is clearly an offensive position to them?


As I stated before to scalvert you should not take offense. We are just foolish people who might as well believe in the tooth fairy as far as you are concerned. Why if you are such a good and decent person do you not simply feel sorry for us.
04/23/2008 11:05:14 AM · #114
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I repeat the assertion, and the question: this thread is not trying to convert anybody, it is an affinity thread

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I invite all to read in the science and theology II thread my salvation testimony and request that you all place your testimony for all of the atheists to read. Let's all be gardeners for God and plant some seeds there. ...We all need to stay in touch or form a group or have a forum on here just for us. ...Maybe forum isnt the right word? Something more than just a thread though is what I was going for.


the science and theology II thread is a proven debate thread so i see no harm in the call for people of opposing faiths to post their views in that thread. notice, however, that there was not a call for Christians to make disruptive posts in the "Calling all Atheists and Agnostics" thread.
04/23/2008 11:09:31 AM · #115
Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:


How is a single thread where Christians can share fellowship with each other any more "divisive" of the community than a thread where Nikonians can share tips and Nikon experiences with each other? And if Canon users came into that Nikon thread and contributed nothing but "You Nikonians are all losers and should switch to Canon" then would not THAT be the divisive element?

R.

To answer your question Bear.... Ken stated
some of these responses from people who really have no reason to even look at this thread

This tells me as I non-christian I'm not entitled to comment on this thread or even look at it???

As a photographer I'm always looking at new and better equipment and always keep up with the Canon/Nikon debat and would switch at a blink if I thought the other side had more to offer!!


Great answer here as I feel the same. I hope that non-Christians would look at the thread if interested but not if they are simply trying to disrupt or persecute but out of a genuine interest in seeing what Christianity is all about. The same way you would have a genuing interest in Nikon products.
04/23/2008 11:12:19 AM · #116
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Are you saying that our BELIEFS are offensive to you?

Certainly not. You only need to re-read what I wrote to see what I find offensive.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

this thread is not trying to convert anybody...

Now there you're wrong. Are you too close to it to see how wrong you are? The OP, in all his responses, clearly has a singular mission of conversion. His latest post is proof positive.


I did not start this thread with that purpose in mind but when non-believers want to say that I feel I am better than them because of my faith then they are opening the door for me to tell them why I am not and why they can have the same thing that I do. I did not ask any non-Christian to join the conversation. That was their choice.
04/23/2008 11:13:48 AM · #117
Originally posted by sher:


the science and theology II thread is a proven debate thread so i see no harm in the call for people of opposing faiths to post their views in that thread. notice, however, that there was not a call for Christians to make disruptive posts in the "Calling all Atheists and Agnostics" thread.


Amen to that.
04/23/2008 11:14:24 AM · #118
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I repeat the assertion, and the question: this thread is not trying to convert anybody, it is an affinity thread

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I invite all to read in the science and theology II thread my salvation testimony and request that you all place your testimony for all of the atheists to read. Let's all be gardeners for God and plant some seeds there. ...We all need to stay in touch or form a group or have a forum on here just for us. ...Maybe forum isnt the right word? Something more than just a thread though is what I was going for.


Yes, I thought that was the appropriate place to discuss religion and Science. Christianity requires of the believer to share their testimony with non-believers in the appropriate place. Am I missing something here?
04/23/2008 11:16:29 AM · #119
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:


How is a single thread where Christians can share fellowship with each other any more "divisive" of the community than a thread where Nikonians can share tips and Nikon experiences with each other? And if Canon users came into that Nikon thread and contributed nothing but "You Nikonians are all losers and should switch to Canon" then would not THAT be the divisive element?

R.

To answer your question Bear.... Ken stated
some of these responses from people who really have no reason to even look at this thread

This tells me as I non-christian I'm not entitled to comment on this thread or even look at it???

As a photographer I'm always looking at new and better equipment and always keep up with the Canon/Nikon debat and would switch at a blink if I thought the other side had more to offer!!


Great answer here as I feel the same. I hope that non-Christians would look at the thread if interested but not if they are simply trying to disrupt or persecute but out of a genuine interest in seeing what Christianity is all about. The same way you would have a genuing interest in Nikon products.


I'm very interested in Christianity!!! more so a genuine interest in seeing how Christianity is promoted.....are you interested in promoting Christianity?
04/23/2008 11:20:44 AM · #120
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Christianity requires of the believer to share their testimony with non-believers in the appropriate place.

Are we allowed to respond to the testimony, or do we just listen?
04/23/2008 11:21:39 AM · #121
Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

then shouldn't you simply look in pity on the poor stupid Christians who are so feeble that they can't logic their way to the obvious conclusion of God's non-existence.


As I sit here with my beer I now relise that this is most logical thing you have stated in this thread.... please enlighten me some more regarding your stupidity!!


Now you see... this is the very thing I seek to not have to put up with. Why can't you see yourself out of this thread if all you seek is to persecute. You being such a wonderful nice guy who doesn't deserve to burn in hell and have a claim to superiority through your wonderful and marvelous intellect was not invited into this thread by anyone. Why do you have such a stake in my/our beliefs. What is the payoff for you? Oh that's right... you feel superior. The very thing I was taken to task for supposedly asserting. No friend, we are all in the same boat. Open your eyes and ears and put down your beer and actually use the brain that God gave you to examine yourself to determine where you could improve in relating to your fellow human beings in a civilized manner.
04/23/2008 11:26:57 AM · #122
Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:


How is a single thread where Christians can share fellowship with each other any more "divisive" of the community than a thread where Nikonians can share tips and Nikon experiences with each other? And if Canon users came into that Nikon thread and contributed nothing but "You Nikonians are all losers and should switch to Canon" then would not THAT be the divisive element?

R.

To answer your question Bear.... Ken stated
some of these responses from people who really have no reason to even look at this thread

This tells me as I non-christian I'm not entitled to comment on this thread or even look at it???

As a photographer I'm always looking at new and better equipment and always keep up with the Canon/Nikon debat and would switch at a blink if I thought the other side had more to offer!!


Great answer here as I feel the same. I hope that non-Christians would look at the thread if interested but not if they are simply trying to disrupt or persecute but out of a genuine interest in seeing what Christianity is all about. The same way you would have a genuing interest in Nikon products.


I'm very interested in Christianity!!! more so a genuine interest in seeing how Christianity is promoted.....are you interested in promoting Christianity?


Honestly I never had any intention of promoting Christianity with this thread. I was just looking to meet people who believed as I do. Period. It has kind of turned into that I suppose because of the assertions by non-believers about me and my character and the obvious assault on my beliefs.
04/23/2008 11:29:47 AM · #123
Originally posted by dponlyme:

I invite all to read in the science and theology II thread my salvation testimony and request that you all place your testimony for all of the atheists to read. Let's all be gardeners for God and plant some seeds there. ...We all need to stay in touch or form a group or have a forum on here just for us. ...Maybe forum isnt the right word? Something more than just a thread though is what I was going for.
[/quote]

That sounds like prostheletizing to me. I don't have the stomach to read this entire thread but from what I have read it smells like theres a deeper motive beyond a simple little chat.

make it go away...
04/23/2008 11:31:28 AM · #124
Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Christianity requires of the believer to share their testimony with non-believers in the appropriate place.

Are we allowed to respond to the testimony, or do we just listen?


I would say that listening is probably the most important thing to do but response is necessary if you have a genuing interest in exploring the topic further. Again I would only invite respectful and genuinely interested people to do so. Not for the mere purpose of refuting, persecuting, demeaning of my and others faith. I'm not looking to create science and theology III (though it looks like that is the way it is going). Make sense.
04/23/2008 11:32:35 AM · #125
Originally posted by sher:

the science and theology II thread is a proven debate thread so i see no harm in the call for people of opposing faiths to post their views in that thread.

You're right, it's a proven debate thread. It is not a forum for yet more tiresome proselytization, which is why, I would imagine, that those individuals who choose to ignore the debate aspect of the thread find themselves the subject of ridicule. I'm frankly surprised that you would advocate "thumpery" in that thread, which flies in the face of the spirit of the conversation.
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