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05/05/2008 01:49:28 AM · #201
Originally posted by 777STAN:

There is at least the slight possibility that Ken had an irritating Christian friend years before he was saved, whose constantly, consistently, irritating "prattle", droning on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on...about "Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell"...was a jingle he couldn't "get out of his head" to the extent that when someone gentler came along who merely said, "I'll pray for you!", Ken was at that point more receptive.

True, but sadly I beat the crap out of him. {kidding kidding!}

Originally posted by 777STAN:

Harvest always follows planting...months earlier, but wheat seed on hard soil can't produce a crop. Tillers that "rough up" the soil can get the seed in, so that gentler souls can come by later and reap the harvest.

Each job is so necessary to the end result!

I won't disagree with you completely, Stan. I have this discussion with my wife all the time. But using your harvest analogy, I know you are doing the "roughing up" but you're also spreading the fertilizer and it makes it quite uncomfortable for other Christians whose field this actually belongs to (OP).

Your own field
did not yield
so you rang this bell
to preach of hell
and now this thread's fate is sealed ;-)
05/05/2008 01:57:25 AM · #202
Originally posted by 777STAN:

Thank You! It is great to know that you found all the humor and important concepts I left for you. That's one reason why Jesus is such a great teacher...in addition to being The Savior, He tailored His concepts to His audience as well.

Yes, What a thought so truly great,
to know that Hope is caught,
When speakers plainly demonstrate,
that advertisement taught,
Becomes two methods on one plate,
one awful, other haute!

To advertise something, someone,
upon the stage of Earth,
Insure that strong emotions come,
and you show THAT there's worth!

To love or hate a subject...'s GOOD,
for you show that there's care!
How great to know a song or word,
a jingle humming everywhere,
Is just the prayer that certainly could,
create a change somewhere! :)

There is at least the slight possibility that Ken had an irritating Christian friend years before he was saved, whose constantly, consistently, irritating "prattle", droning on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on...about "Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell"...was a jingle he couldn't "get out of his head" to the extent that when someone gentler came along who merely said, "I'll pray for you!", Ken was at that point more receptive.

Harvest always follows planting...months earlier, but wheat seed on hard soil can't produce a crop. Tillers that "rough up" the soil can get the seed in, so that gentler souls can come by later and reap the harvest.

Each job is so necessary to the end result!

Reaping the harvest I not my job, any more than scoring touchdowns is the job of the middle linebacker. Middle linebackers do occasionally score touchdowns, and I do occasionally have the privilege of leading someone to the LORD! However, my main job is to secure the goal line so that my Enemy does not carry precious souls to His touchdown of Hell! Tackling is what I do! Defense means "keeping the ball in play" so that the Offense can come on the field and score the touchdown!

Teams with BAD defenses cannot be improved by great offenses! Just ask Dan Marino, one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history...without a Super Bowl ring! Of course, rubbing shoulders with Fran Tarkington can't be all that bad! Blessings! :)


OMG...... I think it stopped being funny and now is turning into something a little scary.

Time for me to turn off the rant section until the fire and brimstone preachers cool down.
05/05/2008 02:06:13 AM · #203
The thread can easily be ignored. And ignoring it does not require posting to it first. God help us if I decided to chime in on every thread where I don't agree with / approve of / or have an interest in, just to ridicule it's participants. Frankly I don't think it would be tolerated.

Message edited by author 2008-05-05 02:06:24.
05/05/2008 06:44:40 AM · #204
Originally posted by 777STAN:

There is at least the slight possibility that Ken had an irritating Christian friend years before he was saved, whose constantly, consistently, irritating "prattle", droning on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on...about "Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, salvation, Heaven, Hell"...was a jingle he couldn't "get out of his head" to the extent that when someone gentler came along who merely said, "I'll pray for you!", Ken was at that point more receptive.

' . substr('//www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images2/applewhite.jpg', strrpos('//www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images2/applewhite.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
05/05/2008 10:35:08 AM · #205
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

The thread can easily be ignored. And ignoring it does not require posting to it first. God help us if I decided to chime in on every thread where I don't agree with / approve of / or have an interest in, just to ridicule it's participants. Frankly I don't think it would be tolerated.

Some things are so patently offensive that they deserve ridicule. An unchecked diatribe does a disservice to all rational discourse everywhere.
05/05/2008 06:03:44 PM · #206
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

The thread can easily be ignored. And ignoring it does not require posting to it first. God help us if I decided to chime in on every thread where I don't agree with / approve of / or have an interest in, just to ridicule it's participants. Frankly I don't think it would be tolerated.

Some things are so patently offensive that they deserve ridicule. An unchecked diatribe does a disservice to all rational discourse everywhere.

I'll keep that in mind. Will you be the one providing the "what is offensive" list?
05/05/2008 07:17:34 PM · #207
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

The thread can easily be ignored. And ignoring it does not require posting to it first. God help us if I decided to chime in on every thread where I don't agree with / approve of / or have an interest in, just to ridicule it's participants. Frankly I don't think it would be tolerated.

Some things are so patently offensive that they deserve ridicule. An unchecked diatribe does a disservice to all rational discourse everywhere.


I would point out that quite a few of the posts of the atheistic point of view could be seen as offensive (I did point this out in the atheist/agnostic thread). If we are to get along peaceably we will simply have to decide not to take offense. Everyone please try to keep in mind that both Christian and atheist would like to do good for their fellow man. It's just that we have different ideas of what that involves. In my experience here it seems quite a few if not most of us have been on the opposite side of this fence at one time. So that we can see how much we actually have in common can we post to show this... I will start

I was an atheist and am now Christian

who's next?
05/05/2008 08:46:33 PM · #208
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

The thread can easily be ignored. And ignoring it does not require posting to it first. God help us if I decided to chime in on every thread where I don't agree with / approve of / or have an interest in, just to ridicule it's participants. Frankly I don't think it would be tolerated.

Some things are so patently offensive that they deserve ridicule. An unchecked diatribe does a disservice to all rational discourse everywhere.

I'll keep that in mind. Will you be the one providing the "what is offensive" list?

Will you be the one condoning all manner of outrages, so long as the pepetrators just say, "It's my religion"?
05/05/2008 09:50:03 PM · #209
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

The thread can easily be ignored. And ignoring it does not require posting to it first. God help us if I decided to chime in on every thread where I don't agree with / approve of / or have an interest in, just to ridicule it's participants. Frankly I don't think it would be tolerated.

Some things are so patently offensive that they deserve ridicule. An unchecked diatribe does a disservice to all rational discourse everywhere.

I'll keep that in mind. Will you be the one providing the "what is offensive" list?

Will you be the one condoning all manner of outrages, so long as the pepetrators just say, "It's my religion"?

I have yet to see any manner of outrage against anyone.
05/05/2008 10:13:35 PM · #210
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

The thread can easily be ignored. And ignoring it does not require posting to it first. God help us if I decided to chime in on every thread where I don't agree with / approve of / or have an interest in, just to ridicule it's participants. Frankly I don't think it would be tolerated.

Some things are so patently offensive that they deserve ridicule. An unchecked diatribe does a disservice to all rational discourse everywhere.

I'll keep that in mind. Will you be the one providing the "what is offensive" list?

Will you be the one condoning all manner of outrages, so long as the pepetrators just say, "It's my religion"?

I have yet to see any manner of outrage against anyone.

This would indicate that anything further I would have to add here would be sadly pointless. But I will say that any generalized consignment of humanity to eternal suffering at the hands of what one conceives of as a supreme all-loving deity is about as offensive as you can get, and I am always surprised that believers fail to recognize this. Never mind the ceaseless, and mindless, proselytizing, the willful ignorance, the eschewing of reason, and the continued unapologetic lumping in of everyone in this narrow and mean worldview, despite repeated requests (elsewhere) to believe privately.
05/06/2008 03:07:23 AM · #211
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

The thread can easily be ignored. And ignoring it does not require posting to it first. God help us if I decided to chime in on every thread where I don't agree with / approve of / or have an interest in, just to ridicule it's participants. Frankly I don't think it would be tolerated.

Some things are so patently offensive that they deserve ridicule. An unchecked diatribe does a disservice to all rational discourse everywhere.

I'll keep that in mind. Will you be the one providing the "what is offensive" list?

Will you be the one condoning all manner of outrages, so long as the pepetrators just say, "It's my religion"?

I have yet to see any manner of outrage against anyone.

This would indicate that anything further I would have to add here would be sadly pointless. But I will say that any generalized consignment of humanity to eternal suffering at the hands of what one conceives of as a supreme all-loving deity is about as offensive as you can get, and I am always surprised that believers fail to recognize this. Never mind the ceaseless, and mindless, proselytizing, the willful ignorance, the eschewing of reason, and the continued unapologetic lumping in of everyone in this narrow and mean worldview, despite repeated requests (elsewhere) to believe privately.


Louis, you know that we believe that no one comes to God and thus eternal salvation except through his son Jesus Christ. You know that we believe if you do not come to a saving knowledge of Jesus that you will die the second death. Why are you beating a dead horse? We already know that we don't see it the same way. You believe that we are offensive, we already know what you think of us. There is no reason to keep saying it. Believe me when I say that we are not going to come around to your way of thinking for your repetition of stating offense at our beliefs, Nor does your repetition change reality. We know that God exists because he works in our lives. Your taking offense doesn't change that.
05/06/2008 03:55:53 AM · #212
Originally posted by Louis:

This would indicate that anything further I would have to add here would be sadly pointless...

And yet... ;-)

Nothing anyone believes offends me, Louis, not even if they believe terrible things will happen to me - as long as they don't intend to cause those things to happen, I couldn't care less. I think you are just seeking the truth, but already know it, but don't like it. I can't otherwise comprehend your constant presence in discussions that, according to your beliefs or lack thereof, don't pertain to you. I wish you the best in your quest. Honestly and sincerely I do.

Edit to add:
Originally posted by Louis:

Never mind the ceaseless, and mindless, proselytizing, the willful ignorance, the eschewing of reason, and the continued unapologetic lumping in of everyone in this narrow and mean worldview, despite repeated requests (elsewhere) to believe privately.

I'm not even sure who or what you are talking about here. Nevermind the hurling of insults and personal attacks.

Message edited by author 2008-05-06 03:58:41.
05/06/2008 08:59:39 AM · #213
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

I think you are just seeking the truth, but already know it, but don't like it.

Arrogance would be another of those qualities that really bugs me.
05/06/2008 09:20:25 AM · #214
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Your taking offense doesn't change that.

You misunderstand. I don't take offense at your belief that you have gods working your lives. Nothing could be further from the truth. For all I care, you can believe anything you like. Couldn't care less.

My original cause for offense, stated very plainly at the outset, came with Stan's uncontrolled diatribes, and his casting of virtually the whole of humanity into an eternity of suffering with not so much as a pause for thought at such outrageousness. More offense came when he and many like him unapologetically lump others into this worldview, even after repeated requests (elsewhere) to believe privately. Ken, in his most recent post, does exactly the same thing, in typical believer-esque high-handed fashion.

I find it sad that what one believes is no cause for alarm for some people, dangerous, perhaps. For my part, if something is ridiculous while at the same time having a taint of the offensive, I'll call it out. No reason to let people get away with the ugliest of statements simply because some allow them to cloak naked contempt for humanity in the details of their "religion".
05/06/2008 01:44:58 PM · #215
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

I think you are just seeking the truth, but already know it, but don't like it.

Arrogance would be another of those qualities that really bugs me.

And yet you live with such high levels of your own. Your ignorance, arrogance and blatantly obvious personal conflictedness really bugs me. But not so much that I couldn't ignore it if you just went and created your own thread to rant and whine about it.

Ooops - well there I go - being so un-Christian like - obviously that's proof that there is no God. (Louis Logic 101)

Really, Louis, let's look at your statement: "...Stan's uncontrolled diatribes, and his casting of virtually the whole of humanity into an eternity of suffering with not so much as a pause for thought at such outrageousness"

Aside from your own arrogance and ignorance in claiming that he gave no thought to it, you are giving Stan credit for having MUCH more power than I think he has. And since you also ascribed that same power to me, I'd just point out that if I did have it, well let's just say there'd be a few less people on the planet, but the ones missing would not be who you ignorantly assume I might smote. In any event, thank God I am not God. :)

I find your intolerance sad and hypocritical.
05/06/2008 02:55:23 PM · #216
And I would expect nothing less. There is a certain charming simplicity in turning an uncomfortable point back on the one who makes it.

If you are happy with the consignment of billions of men, women, and children to an eternity of pain -- however absurd and completely removed from reality that position may be -- that is fine, for you. But don't expect everyone to stand idly by and accept what amounts to an assault not only on reason, but on humanity, without so much as a single word of rebuke.

If you see one's taking umbrage at being lumped into the narrowest of universes by one of the narrowest of believers as being "personally conflicted", I suppose all that can be said is that you don't really know what you're talking about.

If insults based not on what you've actually read but on your personal opinion of my views represent your "honest and sincere" best wishes, I guess I would call that hypocrisy.

As for assuming power where there is none, there is always power in words, power and damage. I don't expect you to read it, but I would be remiss in not pointing out that a Books in Canada review of Sam Harris' book here is a more eloquent summary of many of the points I tried to make here, but failed to.
05/06/2008 03:04:35 PM · #217
Originally posted by Louis:


If you are happy with the consignment of billions of men, women, and children to an eternity of pain -- however absurd and completely removed from reality that position may be -- that is fine, for you. But don't expect everyone to stand idly by and accept what amounts to an assault not only on reason, but on humanity, without so much as a single word of rebuke.


No one here has consingned billions of men women and children to an eternity of pain -- that would be truley absurd and it is not Christian belief. Do we believe that there is a heaven and Hell, yup. but neither I or any other Christian could send you there.

beyond that you'd also have to understand our concept of Hell... Hell, in the Christian understanding is 'consignment' (to use your wording) to an eternity without God, not to 'Pain'. The 'pain' then would come from knowing what you could have had and not lost.

but here's the crux. If you are so firm in your belief that God doesn't exist... then you have nothing to fear or take offence at that you wont get to spend eternity with Him.
05/06/2008 03:17:22 PM · #218
I agree with ART that Louis' Logic is illogic or at the very least inconsistent application of logic. A Christian displays anger and the world is coming to an end because the Christian is somehow insane? Yet, an atheist may display anger with impunity because his world view is more universally socially acceptable?

I must have MY faith privately? You are allowed to have your anti-faith publicly?

With all due respects, Friend! YOU are the one with an inflamation problem...I just brought out the Preparation-H for your Logic! :}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}
05/06/2008 04:47:45 PM · #219
Originally posted by Louis:

As for assuming power where there is none, there is always power in words, power and damage. I don't expect you to read it, but I would be remiss in not pointing out that a Books in Canada review of Sam Harris' book here is a more eloquent summary of many of the points I tried to make here, but failed to.

Just curious.....have you read the book?

It's pretty out there.

Harris is a pretty scary dude and some of the conclusions he draws are scary in their
path of assignation.

Jut my $0.02 US.....YMMV
05/06/2008 04:58:05 PM · #220
I'm only a month late on this thread!

My second ever entry here at DPC

Everlasting Life:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/687/120/524182.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/687/120/524182.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
05/06/2008 11:00:03 PM · #221
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Just curious.....have you read the book?

It's pretty out there.

Harris is a pretty scary dude and some of the conclusions he draws are scary in their
path of assignation.

Yes, I've read it. I don't normally reference books (or know about them) without owning them and having read them. Have you? I would be surprised to learn you have, given your assessment of its contents. What could be scary about a quote like, "There may yet be good reasons to believe...in the healing power of prayer, or anything else -- but our credulity must scale with the evidence." Or, "Many of the results of spiritual practice are genuinely desirable, and we owe it to ourselves to seek it out." Perhaps you are frightened by the overall assertion that blind faith in competing irrelevant parchments that have no place in a modern society is a sure recipe for disaster? Of that you should be frightened.
05/07/2008 02:03:26 AM · #222
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Harris is a pretty scary dude and some of the conclusions he draws are scary in their path of assignation.


I'm sorry. I originally had no intention to intrude on this thread, but could you be more specific? I've read Harris' The End of Faith. To which conclusions are you referring?
05/07/2008 09:48:08 AM · #223
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Would like to meet more people who are Christian on DPC. Any out there? I've met a lot of atheist and social liberals. Where are all the Christians?


I'm here, too...better late than never to chime in. We now return you to your regularly-expected discussion that may or may not relate to the original post...

Message edited by author 2008-05-07 10:25:52.
05/07/2008 10:28:59 AM · #224
hi, i'm christian since i was few month old and i've read whole thread and still don't know what's this all about ? about pointing something out? speaking about your believes? ... i don't know, to me religion and faith and stuff should be more private thing.

and this -->
Originally posted by STAN777:


As a Christian my job is to be a watchman on the wall! I see the enemy of the human soul, whose name is Death, inexorably approaching. He WILL visit every human "Believe it or not!"...until Gabriel blows his trumpet.

I am sounding the alarm! You are WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will continue to sound the alarm as long as I breathe! You will continue to be warned! (I am human enough to confess that I don't like my message, ONLY because is makes me unpopular, but I can't change the message because it is not my message!)

I sound the alarm! My responsibility has been executed! Whatever you choose to do with that message is, of course, your eternal choice! Own it! Choose wisely...for the only people who really care about your eternal souls...are those of us who right now appear harsh, and socially unacceptable.


this is waaay over the top and exaggerated in my humble opinion, or was it meant to be funny ? <insert confused smiley here>
05/07/2008 10:35:54 AM · #225
Originally posted by goc:

this is waaay over the top and exaggerated in my humble opinion, or was it meant to be funny ? <insert confused smiley here>

I interpreted it as satire. Surely it wasn't intended to be taken seriously?
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