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05/28/2008 05:23:59 PM · #1
The Movie Title challenge really brought out a few things that really bugged me and I'd like to address them here. This was my submission;

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This was voted down by many just because it was an USA Flag. I certainly would not vote down a picture of the Eiffel Tower if I didn't like French people or a picture of the Pyramids if I disliked Egyptian people. So why vote my picture down?

The main issue I would like to speak about is the world view of the USA. In this world of mass media and internet there seems to be a great misunderstanding about different cultures. CNN, BBC, etc... are not acurate depictions of any culture. Their views are snippets of events in those cultures. What makes news for those companies??? Strife, turmoil, tradgedy, etc.....(basically bad news). So what image does one's culture have on the world's populations? You guessed it, bad!! It doesn't matter what culture you come from the news gives the image you see. Are all Arabs terrorists? Are all Germans skinheads? Are all Africans warlords? Are all americans power-hungry dictators? The answer is NO!! Quit basing your worldwide opinions on things you don't know the facts about!!

OK, so what gives me the right to say this? I have been serving in the US Army for 22 years. In that time I have been to many different countries and have encountered many different cultures. During my time amongst those cultures I have represented myself and my country. I have learned that people are people no matter where you are! We all have similar struggles and joys in our daily lives. When two people talk together they learn that they are basically the same and the differences are minor.

What I am trying to get across is this. Please don't judge everyone in a culture because you think you know what that culture is like, know the facts and not the media biased lies.


05/28/2008 07:42:46 PM · #2
Originally posted by kleski:

The Movie Title challenge really brought out a few things that really bugged me and I'd like to address them here. This was my submission;

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This was voted down by many just because it was an USA Flag. I certainly would not vote down a picture of the Eiffel Tower if I didn't like French people or a picture of the Pyramids if I disliked Egyptian people. So why vote my picture down?

The main issue I would like to speak about is the world view of the USA. In this world of mass media and internet there seems to be a great misunderstanding about different cultures. CNN, BBC, etc... are not acurate depictions of any culture. Their views are snippets of events in those cultures. What makes news for those companies??? Strife, turmoil, tradgedy, etc.....(basically bad news). So what image does one's culture have on the world's populations? You guessed it, bad!! It doesn't matter what culture you come from the news gives the image you see. Are all Arabs terrorists? Are all Germans skinheads? Are all Africans warlords? Are all americans power-hungry dictators? The answer is NO!! Quit basing your worldwide opinions on things you don't know the facts about!!

OK, so what gives me the right to say this? I have been serving in the US Army for 22 years. In that time I have been to many different countries and have encountered many different cultures. During my time amongst those cultures I have represented myself and my country. I have learned that people are people no matter where you are! We all have similar struggles and joys in our daily lives. When two people talk together they learn that they are basically the same and the differences are minor.

What I am trying to get across is this. Please don't judge everyone in a culture because you think you know what that culture is like, know the facts and not the media biased lies.


You'd have the right to say it regardless of your service.

Just like other people have the right to disagree with you.

FWIW, I only saw one or two comments that were negative about the flag itself and only one that seemed a real political statement.


05/28/2008 07:52:01 PM · #3
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' kleski, it's unfortunate if some people voted on politics rather than the picture and it must have been frustrating to see your shot get dumped on like that. As a pragmatic issue, I can understand why some people may not be able to keep their feelings of the subject out of their scoring. The US is certainly not the most popular country on the block lately.

IMHO, the US flag represents a government, not me as a person, so I don't take the criticism of US flag shots as a judgment of the US culture or people in general. I think it's more likely a reaction to US government policies. Of course, being a democracy (unless you're a Democrat in Florida or Michigan :P) an argument could be made that the US gov't is a reflection of its culture and individual people. Still, I would take the flag bashing as more against the government and its actions than against the citizens. Well, except for the crazy American tourists who expect everyone to speak English and get upset when they can't easily find a McDonalds abroad. ;)
05/28/2008 07:54:57 PM · #4
Originally posted by JMart:

Well, except for the crazy American tourists who expect everyone to speak English and get upset when they can't easily find a McDonalds abroad. ;)


Everyone understands English, you just have to slow down and speak really loud in foreign countries. The French especially seem to appreciate this.
05/28/2008 08:00:08 PM · #5
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by JMart:

Well, except for the crazy American tourists who expect everyone to speak English and get upset when they can't easily find a McDonalds abroad. ;)


Everyone understands English, you just have to slow down and speak really loud in foreign countries. The French especially seem to appreciate this.

LOL! I'll keep that in mind when I'm in Korea this summer visiting my wife's side of the family, many of which actually do not know any English. :o I'm just going to have to go into nod & smile mode since my Korean is minimal so far.
05/28/2008 08:06:43 PM · #6
In regards to the people who did make comments, I really appreciated their honesty and I did PM them to discuss my reaction. To me this flag represents freedom as it did for Germany, Italy, France and other countries in WWII. And now Iraq, I know what it means to many of them since I have been there (embedded with the Iraqi soldiers). Freedom is not free and many people (the world over) seem to have forgotten that. I for one have not..........
05/28/2008 08:11:03 PM · #7
Originally posted by JMart:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by JMart:

Well, except for the crazy American tourists who expect everyone to speak English and get upset when they can't easily find a McDonalds abroad. ;)


Everyone understands English, you just have to slow down and speak really loud in foreign countries. The French especially seem to appreciate this.

LOL! I'll keep that in mind when I'm in Korea this summer visiting my wife's side of the family, many of which actually do not know any English. :o I'm just going to have to go into nod & smile mode since my Korean is minimal so far.


Waving your hands about like a madman works well in combination with the extra loud English.
05/28/2008 09:51:00 PM · #8
Originally posted by kleski:

In regards to the people who did make comments, I really appreciated their honesty and I did PM them to discuss my reaction. To me this flag represents freedom as it did for Germany, Italy, France and other countries in WWII. And now Iraq, I know what it means to many of them since I have been there (embedded with the Iraqi soldiers). Freedom is not free and many people (the world over) seem to have forgotten that. I for one have not..........


Freedom is when a people look for it and embrace it and work with it which brings appreciation of it. When it's imposed unto a people by others who state, or should I say dictate, that it's the only way or else... well, that isn't really freedom, is it? I don't see that in Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, etc.

You can't come in my yard and tell me what is what and then claim to be my friend and impose your idea of freedom upon me and tell me there's no way but your way. That to me is not freedom. That is living by other's rules. So far after 5 years of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where is that freedom we all hear about? I don't see it even when I search for it therefore it must not exist or is a well kept secret. Where are the puctures of wells being dug? Where are the images that show new construction for housing, schools, water filtering plants, utility complexes? Why haven't we started to see any progress in these cesspools we call countries. All I see is bombs killing young kids.

Violence in Iraq has never been so low in 4 years but I still don't see images or videos of good things being done. It's almost non-existent on TV, not that I watch it much. Isn't it a good time to start building stuff, isn't that what we were all told 5 years ago? We were going to rebuild their infrastructure so they can have basic necessities we all take for granted?

I want to see progress dammit. Show me something good or positive from these hellholes and maybe people like myself will learn to better understand what you soldiers are doing there.

SHOW ME THE MONEY! ;\
05/28/2008 09:57:37 PM · #9
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by kleski:

In regards to the people who did make comments, I really appreciated their honesty and I did PM them to discuss my reaction. To me this flag represents freedom as it did for Germany, Italy, France and other countries in WWII. And now Iraq, I know what it means to many of them since I have been there (embedded with the Iraqi soldiers). Freedom is not free and many people (the world over) seem to have forgotten that. I for one have not..........


Freedom is when a people look for it and embrace it and work with it which brings appreciation of it. When it's imposed unto a people by others who state, or should I say dictate, that it's the only way or else... well, that isn't really freedom, is it? I don't see that in Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, etc.

You can't come in my yard and tell me what is what and then claim to be my friend and impose your idea of freedom upon me and tell me there's no way but your way. That to me is not freedom. That is living by other's rules. So far after 5 years of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where is that freedom we all hear about? I don't see it even when I search for it therefore it must not exist or is a well kept secret. Where are the puctures of wells being dug? Where are the images that show new construction for housing, schools, water filtering plants, utility complexes? Why haven't we started to see any progress in these cesspools we call countries. All I see is bombs killing young kids.

Violence in Iraq has never been so low in 4 years but I still don't see images or videos of good things being done. It's almost non-existent on TV, not that I watch it much. Isn't it a good time to start building stuff, isn't that what we were all told 5 years ago? We were going to rebuild their infrastructure so they can have basic necessities we all take for granted?

I want to see progress dammit. Show me something good or positive from these hellholes and maybe people like myself will learn to better understand what you soldiers are doing there.

SHOW ME THE MONEY! ;\


When have you ever seen progress from the news? Feel good stories do not sell papers or bring viewers to the TV. Bad news sells and good news doesnt, so even if there is progress over there you will never see it, imo.

Message edited by author 2008-05-28 21:57:55.
05/29/2008 12:18:54 AM · #10
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by kleski:

In regards to the people who did make comments, I really appreciated their honesty and I did PM them to discuss my reaction. To me this flag represents freedom as it did for Germany, Italy, France and other countries in WWII. And now Iraq, I know what it means to many of them since I have been there (embedded with the Iraqi soldiers). Freedom is not free and many people (the world over) seem to have forgotten that. I for one have not..........


Freedom is when a people look for it and embrace it and work with it which brings appreciation of it. When it's imposed unto a people by others who state, or should I say dictate, that it's the only way or else... well, that isn't really freedom, is it? I don't see that in Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, etc.

You can't come in my yard and tell me what is what and then claim to be my friend and impose your idea of freedom upon me and tell me there's no way but your way. That to me is not freedom. That is living by other's rules. So far after 5 years of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where is that freedom we all hear about? I don't see it even when I search for it therefore it must not exist or is a well kept secret. Where are the puctures of wells being dug? Where are the images that show new construction for housing, schools, water filtering plants, utility complexes? Why haven't we started to see any progress in these cesspools we call countries. All I see is bombs killing young kids.

Violence in Iraq has never been so low in 4 years but I still don't see images or videos of good things being done. It's almost non-existent on TV, not that I watch it much. Isn't it a good time to start building stuff, isn't that what we were all told 5 years ago? We were going to rebuild their infrastructure so they can have basic necessities we all take for granted?

I want to see progress dammit. Show me something good or positive from these hellholes and maybe people like myself will learn to better understand what you soldiers are doing there.

SHOW ME THE MONEY! ;\


If you want to see examples of good things are being done in Iraq and Afghanistan, take a look at what the US Army Civil Affairs units are doing. That is if you can find anything in the media. It's not all about raids on terrorist hideouts, it's also about building a free society from the rubble of 30+ years of brutal dictatorship.

Unfortunately, rather than report on the good things happening in war zones, the media hypes casualty figures and highlights the negative because tales of blood and gore sell more ad space.

As to what the flag represents for me, it goes way beyond the government or the current administration and stands for the things the US was founded on. Freedom, glory, liberty and the American Dream and everything that has made people want so badly to come here and made others willing to lay down their lives to preserve it.

Message edited by author 2008-05-29 00:23:49.
05/29/2008 01:24:44 AM · #11
What I find interesting is how few images of other national flags we see photographed here.

For those outside the US, can you help me understand why?

I guess all countries come with their own brand of baggage. Their flags inherit whatever that baggage is. Is there a country (flag) that has little or no baggage?
05/29/2008 03:38:24 AM · #12
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:

What I find interesting is how few images of other national flags we see photographed here.

For those outside the US, can you help me understand why?

I guess all countries come with their own brand of baggage. Their flags inherit whatever that baggage is. Is there a country (flag) that has little or no baggage?


Erm...becuse it's a really boring photography subject, I mean it's a bit of fabric on a stick...

I don't think people in other countries are as attached to their flags as the USA certainly not here in Australia, but then we're always trying to get ours changed, not that I think we'd be any more attached to the new one.
05/29/2008 03:45:50 AM · #13
Originally posted by Wildcard:

I don't think people in other countries are as attached to their flags as the USA certainly not here in Australia, but then we're always trying to get ours changed, not that I think we'd be any more attached to the new one.

I vote for the Fosters logo. :)
05/29/2008 05:10:22 AM · #14
I think it's a 2 way street. Did you not expect some of the voters to vote higher because of their patriotism without regards to the merits of the photography?

My guess is you got some votes higher and lower because of the emtional impact of the subject.

For whatever reason, US flag shots do not score high very often.

I entered this one and got a 5.5

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I was going to enter this one in a FS but, based on my experience with the previous flag shot, I decided not to enter it.

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Now I don't even consider entering US flag shots.

Maybe we could have flag challenge, that would be fun! ;-)
05/29/2008 05:30:51 AM · #15
Originally posted by scarbrd:



Maybe we could have flag challenge, that would be fun! ;-)

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Just NO! mkay! NO!
05/29/2008 05:33:30 AM · #16
Originally posted by Wildcard:

Originally posted by scarbrd:



Maybe we could have flag challenge, that would be fun! ;-)

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Just NO! mkay! NO!

Don't worry, it would be an exclusive challenge paired with "Pencil II" so at least one of them would provide excitement.
05/29/2008 05:34:11 AM · #17
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


I vote for the Fosters logo. :)

FOCL or the XXXX logo.
05/29/2008 05:36:40 AM · #18
Originally posted by Wildcard:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


I vote for the Fosters logo. :)

FOCL or the XXXX logo.

Oh jeez, I dunno
*Art is cast into the smoldering chasm*
Aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
05/29/2008 09:41:09 AM · #19
Originally posted by Wildcard:

Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:

What I find interesting is how few images of other national flags we see photographed here.

For those outside the US, can you help me understand why?


Erm...becuse it's a really boring photography subject, I mean it's a bit of fabric on a stick...


I think it's because Americans people in the United States seem to project many more emotional concepts onto their flag than people in most other countries. You might look at your flag and "see" Freedom, Glory, Truth or other concepts. I look at your flag and see some stripes and some stars - and, more to the point, I don't see Freedom, Independence or some other concept when I look at my country's flag either. The photo used to start this thread looks like a pretty ordinary flag photo to me; it doesn't show any significant artistic creativity (some of the flag photos here have, but not many) and doesn't illustrate "Glory" to me.

(Even if we managed to remove the Union Jack from the Australian flag and replace it with something, well, Australian, I wouldn't start projecting emotional concepts onto our flag. It's a symbol of my country, nothing more.)

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Wildcard:

not here in Australia, but then we're always trying to get ours changed,

I vote for the Fosters logo. :)


That would be nicely ironic, because I've never heard or seen any evidence of any Australian, anywhere, drinking Fosters.
05/29/2008 11:24:50 AM · #20
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:

What I find interesting is how few images of other national flags we see photographed here.

For those outside the US, can you help me understand why?

I guess all countries come with their own brand of baggage. Their flags inherit whatever that baggage is. Is there a country (flag) that has little or no baggage?


Probably because for most other countries, children aren't indoctrinated into such an emotional tie to their country's flag at school. Pledging to the flag, flag in the classroom etc, seems to be a big part of US education. National identity gets tied up into that flag in the US to a much greater degree than in other countries I've visited.

The UK has the Queen in a somewhat similar role, but in general we aren't quite as jingoistic any more so the flag or the Queen has a reduced connotation these days.
05/29/2008 11:28:52 AM · #21
I pledge allegiance to the flag... why am I pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth? Where is the humanity of a flag? What are the ideas of a flag?

If you put up a picture of a U.S. flag and call it "Glory", you are not representing the U.S. You are representing U.S. patriotism, which is bound to get a negative reaction from people who might not see the U.S. as a Godsend to the rest of the world, as we are told to think about ourselves.
05/29/2008 11:50:35 AM · #22
For the record, this is a poster for the actual movie:

[thumb]683335[/thumb]

Although the OP image doesn't have the dramatic effects of the battle scene, it seems was a reasonable interpretation of the movie, at least that's what the producers thought.
05/29/2008 12:56:31 PM · #23
I agree. The comments about why people post flags IMO are dumb; just like babies, bugs, water, etc. They will be repeated. The challenge was movie titles. If there is a movie titled Glory and he thinks of the US flag as being Glorious then who cares! It's so annoying when people put anothers work down because people don't "believe" what you believe. Reminds me of a certain group of religious people.

Originally posted by Jammur:

For the record, this is a poster for the actual movie:

[thumb]683335[/thumb]

Although the OP image doesn't have the dramatic effects of the battle scene, it seems was a reasonable interpretation of the movie, at least that's what the producers thought.
05/29/2008 01:02:38 PM · #24
Keep in mind that this image ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/22/120/2892.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/22/120/2892.jpg', '/') + 1) . ', not only won a blue ribbon, it's also one of the highest scoring images on DPC and one of the most commented. I believe that due to the lamea$$ political commentary that started in the comments, it's also the only challenge image that has been locked from further comment by the SC.
05/29/2008 02:06:54 PM · #25
Originally posted by Gordon:

Probably because for most other countries, children aren't indoctrinated into such an emotional tie to their country's flag at school. Pledging to the flag, flag in the classroom etc, seems to be a big part of US education. National identity gets tied up into that flag in the US to a much greater degree than in other countries I've visited.

Every day ... ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/268/120/114161.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/268/120/114161.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Originally posted by paddles:


I think it's because Americans people in the United States seem to project many more emotional concepts onto their flag than people in most other countries. You might look at your flag and "see" Freedom, Glory, Truth or other concepts. I look at your flag and see some stripes and some stars - and, more to the point, I don't see Freedom, Independence or some other concept when I look at my country's flag either. The photo used to start this thread looks like a pretty ordinary flag photo to me; it doesn't show any significant artistic creativity (some of the flag photos here have, but not many) and doesn't illustrate "Glory" to me.


When I do shoot a flag, I try to have it convey something other than just national identity ... whether or not the interpretations are "artistic" is an open question ... ;-)
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