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09/08/2008 10:43:47 AM · #26
Originally posted by hopper:

Paying for membership goes towards keeping this site alive and should have NOTHING to do with which challenges you decide to enter. If you can afford it (and pretty much everyone who pays for an internet connection can), you should cough up your 25 bucks per year. It's a very small price to pay for what you get in return.


Very well said! Couldn't agree more ...
09/08/2008 10:57:14 AM · #27
Related question - Are the winners at DPC, that use heavy PP techniques, marketable to stock agencies? This thread and the OP's observations prompted me to start this related thread ==> Decisions. Photos for stock, or something else?
09/08/2008 11:13:30 AM · #28
Part of this is just the fact that we are dealing with RGB as opposed to a reflective surface (i.e. a developed photograph or print).

Since the light is coming from inside the monitor, a different range of color, brightness and saturation is available.

Having said that, I rarely agree that the "best photos" are all on the front page.
You are right that post processing helps, noise reduction programs help.
Actually, I think people are fascinated when they can't quite grasp "how" some post processing was done.
However, good ideas and composition are also highly rewarded!

I can understand not renewing, so I won't necessarily argue with that. This site hasn't really improved much so I'm always on the fence when it comes to renewing.
09/08/2008 11:14:30 AM · #29
Originally posted by Structor:

Originally posted by Simms:

Umm, this one was actually a Basic edited shot.. just levels corrections, straight out of the camera, just the way you like it.. and it scored very highly indeed (6.9)

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/896/120/704314.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/896/120/704314.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


As Simms says, this picture is as good as straight out of the camera, and I have never tried HDR.


If you read carefully my thread, I did not say that this pic was HDR. I found the texture of the grass/water quite strange. The fences do not look quite right either, their texture yellowish/grey seems to be the result of too much correction in the highlights. Also, maybe the amount of sharpening you applied was a little bit too much for my taste.
09/08/2008 11:16:51 AM · #30
Originally posted by metatate:


Having said that, I rarely agree that the "best photos" are all on the front page.


Agreed
09/08/2008 11:39:45 AM · #31
Post-processing expertise does not hold a flame to awesomeness behind the camera.. The best example I can find is this shot here by the one and only ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' dwterry
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/664/120/493752.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/664/120/493752.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Looking at the before and after shots, you can see only a smidgen of processing was required, anyone with a working knowledge of Photoshop could probably make the changes required. The funny thing about this image is, it won the Blue Ribbon in a Freestudy, and heres the kicker, it was using the Expert editing ruleset which pretty much means ANYTHING goes on the post-processing front. As an example, here is the lightly processed shot I entered in that freestudy
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/664/120/501778.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/664/120/501778.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

which is at the far end of the editing spectrum, and it is admittedly quite a well processed image (IMHO), check out others entries in that freestudy to see how many other heavily photoshopped image there are. So it goes to show that even with the best photoshoppers out there with a ruleset allowing them free reign to go mad on their images, the lightly processed shot won because it was just so kickass to start with and didnt rely on Photoshop skills.

Message edited by author 2008-09-08 11:42:45.
09/08/2008 11:46:31 AM · #32
Originally posted by msieglerfr:

Originally posted by metatate:


Having said that, I rarely agree that the "best photos" are all on the front page.


Agreed


The cherries and the shiny icing don't tell you squat about the cake.

Oh, and seagulls follow the trawler looking for cast-off sardines.

Swinging chain mean warm seat.
09/08/2008 11:48:15 AM · #33
Originally posted by msieglerfr:

Originally posted by metatate:


Having said that, I rarely agree that the "best photos" are all on the front page.


Agreed


Fully agree, I can only think of 6 times when the blue ribbon was won when it truly deserved to be.
09/08/2008 11:53:28 AM · #34
Originally posted by Simms:

I can only think of 6 times when the blue ribbon was won when it truly deserved to be.

LOL
09/08/2008 12:04:24 PM · #35
Originally posted by Simms:

As an example, here is the lightly processed shot I entered in that freestudy
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/664/120/501778.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/664/120/501778.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


Surely you mean "highly processed"?

R.
09/08/2008 12:06:13 PM · #36
Originally posted by Simms:


Fully agree, I can only think of 6 times when the blue ribbon was won when it truly deserved to be.


Care to show us the 6 deserving winners?

R.
09/08/2008 12:09:32 PM · #37
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Simms:

As an example, here is the lightly processed shot I entered in that freestudy
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/664/120/501778.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/664/120/501778.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


Surely you mean "highly processed"?

R.


t'was sarcasm my dear..
09/08/2008 12:41:06 PM · #38
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Simms:


Fully agree, I can only think of 6 times when the blue ribbon was won when it truly deserved to be.


Care to show us the 6 deserving winners?

R.

Truly deserving Blue Ribbon Winners; according to Simms.

:)
09/08/2008 12:42:50 PM · #39
I gotta tell ya....I do get tired of this same whine. That whole "Purist Photography" BS.

You don't have much credbility squawking about "Real" photography, especially here, at dpchallenge, a digital photography contest, especially when you're behind a digital camera.

What do you expect? It's not like you're going to have straight-out-of-the-camera-onto-the-film anyway.......it's DIGITAL!!!! You're digitizing whatever you see anyway.

Oh, and......

Boy, did this ever do badly!!!!' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/620/120/455890.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/620/120/455890.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

And this: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/419/120/267110.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/419/120/267110.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

And this: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/812/120/642962.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/812/120/642962.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Get what YOU want and need out of this place, and don't worry about what the people are doing that doesn't work for you.

Personally, I *WANT* to broaden my horizons......that means becoming better with both my camera AND my PP skills.

I've actually stumbled onto a technique that I can do pretty easily that resonates better with the voters than it does to me.

Is that bad? I don't think so, but it was certainly a surprise.

But participating, and not supporting the site just because you don't see eye to eye with everyone just sounds like sour grapes.

Do you really feel that you don't get $25 worth of input and enjoyment from DPC in a year?
09/08/2008 12:54:15 PM · #40
Can someone give me the URL of that absolutely wonderful post-processing challenge site that was started by some folks here?
09/08/2008 12:55:17 PM · #41
You forgot...
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/638/120/473436.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/638/120/473436.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

ZERO editing, shot in JPG and straight out of the camera.. resized. thats it. no cropping, NOTHING!!

09/08/2008 12:56:45 PM · #42
Sheesh... get off Vans ass..he's been here a long time..paid his memberships all the way.. expresses an opinion...and that's all...now you can get on me for awhile...lol
09/08/2008 12:59:37 PM · #43
Originally posted by vtruan:

Hey Hatchet, I haven't started a good popcorn thread in years :)


Just thought you could use some popcorn Van.. help yourself! :)
09/08/2008 01:04:06 PM · #44
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I gotta tell ya....I do get tired of this same whine. That whole "Purist Photography" BS.

You don't have much credbility squawking about "Real" photography, especially here, at dpchallenge, a digital photography contest, especially when you're behind a digital camera.

What do you expect? It's not like you're going to have straight-out-of-the-camera-onto-the-film anyway.......it's DIGITAL!!!! You're digitizing whatever you see anyway.

Oh, and......

Boy, did this ever do badly!!!!' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/620/120/455890.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/620/120/455890.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

And this: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/419/120/267110.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/419/120/267110.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

And this: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/812/120/642962.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/812/120/642962.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Get what YOU want and need out of this place, and don't worry about what the people are doing that doesn't work for you.

Personally, I *WANT* to broaden my horizons......that means becoming better with both my camera AND my PP skills.

I've actually stumbled onto a technique that I can do pretty easily that resonates better with the voters than it does to me.

Is that bad? I don't think so, but it was certainly a surprise.

But participating, and not supporting the site just because you don't see eye to eye with everyone just sounds like sour grapes.

Do you really feel that you don't get $25 worth of input and enjoyment from DPC in a year?


No comment...
09/08/2008 01:18:17 PM · #45
Originally posted by Koriyama:

Can someone give me the URL of that absolutely wonderful post-processing challenge site that was started by some folks here?


PPChallenge but it is down and has been for some time now.
09/08/2008 01:47:20 PM · #46
Van, I respect your decision but may think your perspective is a bit rigid. Look at it this way: Is it possible to be a digital photography "purist" in the first place? I believe the answer is no. Digital cameras are nothing more than compact and sophisticated computers housed in small boxes. With each generation of new cameras, the computers become more advanced and integrate more processes which further refine the "raw" image prior to output. I suspect in several years, we will have Photoshop capabilities built into the camera thus eliminating much of the tedium endured in PP anyhow.

With regards to the "Over-Processing" on this site, look at in a way that many have simply extended the ability of one computer, the camera, through the use of another. Some do it better than others but that is the way it is with everything. For the time being, and from a voter's perspective, greater emphasis is seems to be placed on results derived from Post Processing rather than on composition, subject matter, theme etc. This is not always true but here it seems to trend toward that. We've all known that for a long time.

Your images are very unique. You have a wonderful perspective and that perspective is yours and only yours. You may find greater satisfaction in the honesty of film as it will somewhat level the criteria of what you judge to be a sincere image. I'm not sure. Film is more constrained than digital which is advancing far faster than many of us can. Film is still seen by many as the realm of the masters partially due to these constraints. In digital, it is much easier for the intermediate to create the facade of being a "master" through manipulation. It has less to do with what we have traditionally thought to be "photography" and more to do with computer prowess whether it be in the camera or extended outwards. I can understand that.

09/08/2008 04:54:58 PM · #47
If you really hate post-processing of photographs, perhaps you should leave DPC. Most of us have secret (or open) desires to be professional. Check as many professional photographers as you can and you will find that most of them know post-processing. Start with Ansel Adams. if you were a client would you prefer a retouched photograph, or one straight from the camera as you advocate. I would like to refer you to another site, but I do not know of another that specializes in snapshots.
09/08/2008 05:32:00 PM · #48
Yeah, actually, I just received a book titled "Ansel Adams: Examples" where Adams takes 40 of his photographs and annotates with some detail how he achieved them. I was really surprised at how complicated the process was, especially in post-processing. He likened the negative to the "score", and the print to the "performance", and talks about all the different possible outcomes of the 'performance' and of all the different variations one can envision.

Photoshop is just the digital darkroom, which is an absolute necessity in refining your "negative" into what your 'mind's eye' saw at the time of exposure. Digital images are very imperfect when it comes to colors and contrast, and (depending on the model of camera you have) you always need a certain amount of post-processing to get the image to look good and/or realistic. On the continuum of post-processing taste, I enjoy my images to be on the verge of unrealistic, I like a sort of 'comic-book' look, but that's just me.

I tend to down-vote images that look like they're straight out of the camera simply because they look unprofessional, unpolished, and I think the purpose of this site is to make people stronger photographers. Mastering post-processing (in accordance with whatever your tastes may be) is paramount to achieving that goal.
09/08/2008 08:25:41 PM · #49
The best two things I've ever heard on this subject:
1) Every digital camera processes. It's just a matter of whether you leave it to the manufacturer's defaults or your preferences.
2) Some people want only to take photos. Others want to make images. I'm usually in the second group, and clicking the shutter is usually only the first (very important) step.
09/08/2008 08:39:16 PM · #50
Originally posted by mpeters:

Truly deserving Blue Ribbon Winners; according to Simms.

:)


LOL

Too funny!

bazz.
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