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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> 40D noise problems?
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09/16/2008 11:55:30 AM · #1
Most probably, I'm a complete idiot. But I need some help here, so here's my question. I took some shots yesterday in raw. The camera was in TV mode with a shutter speed of 1/125. When I view my raw files in DPP, there is no noise whatsoever. But once I convert them to jpeg and view them in PSCS, they are quite noisy. When I open the converted file in NI, it looks like someone threw a canvas texture over them they are so noisy. So, what am I doing wrong?

This image is converted, resized in PSCS then ran through NI in default settings just to put it up.
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09/16/2008 12:02:26 PM · #2
what ISO setting were you using?
09/16/2008 12:03:16 PM · #3
Was it underexposed? It looks like the exposure has been raised in post somehow. Underexposure definitely will bring out more noise on a digital picture.

If the exposure wasn't raised then I'm not sure, although I wouldn't say it looks particularly noisy to me.
09/16/2008 12:08:45 PM · #4
ISO 400, f/29, shutter speed 1/125

I did boost the exposure by 1 in DPP. I didn't think that would be enough to introduce noise though. I guess I just need to practice some more with different settings or stick it back on auto. ;)
09/16/2008 12:10:30 PM · #5
Rather keep practicing, don't switch back to auto, you'll get the hang of it. My 40D works really well in all conditions.
09/16/2008 12:17:35 PM · #6
Originally posted by Kelli:

ISO 400, f/29, shutter speed 1/125

I did boost the exposure by 1 in DPP. I didn't think that would be enough to introduce noise though. I guess I just need to practice some more with different settings or stick it back on auto. ;)


At least on the resize there isn't much noise at all. I'm not sure what you are reacting to. Another possible source of noise, is increasing the saturation. If you really bumped those blues in the sky, you can get pixelation because, in essense, the sky is really underexposed on the red channel.
09/16/2008 12:30:14 PM · #7
I realize it's not really noticeable on the resize, it's at 100% that it looks bad. But I was attempting to update my Philadelphia skyline picture for stock (my best selling picture), since the skyline has changed since then. It's just frustrating me that there is no noise on the raw, but once I convert there is tons. I even tried converting it without making any changes at in in raw, just hitting convert, and still end up with the noise. I even tried converting it to tiff and still end up with noise. It doesn't show that bad in CS, but when I open it in NI just to do a run through (because the stocks sites are so strict with noise), it really does look textured. I'm just not sure if it's because of the settings or something I'm doing or what.
09/16/2008 12:51:00 PM · #8
Kelli, could you send the original RAW to me? I would like to see the RAW version in bridge at 100% crop. I have a 40D as well and use Photoshop and Bridge.

I see that you were shooting in Tv mode, I guess that explains the f/29. Most all the time I shoot in Av mode with the ISO set @ 100, unless I need more light then I may up the ISO. I have found the 40D to be very clean (not much noise) even when shooting ISO 400 and 800.

If you would like to send the RAW file my email is
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09/16/2008 12:54:02 PM · #9
Originally posted by SDW:

Kelli, could you send the original RAW to me? I would like to see the RAW version in bridge at 100% crop. I have a 40D as well and use Photoshop and Bridge.

I see that you were shooting in Tv mode, I guess that explains the f/29. Most all the time I shoot in Av mode with the ISO set @ 100, unless I need more light then I may up the ISO. I have found the 40D to be very clean (not much noise) even when shooting ISO 400 and 800.

If you would like to send the RAW file my email is
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/22970/orig/706752.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/22970/orig/706752.gif', '/') + 1) . '


Sent! Thanks Scott!
09/16/2008 12:56:04 PM · #10
Let me take a look see and I get back in a few.
09/16/2008 01:01:39 PM · #11
Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by SDW:

Kelli, could you send the original RAW to me? I would like to see the RAW version in bridge at 100% crop. I have a 40D as well and use Photoshop and Bridge.

I see that you were shooting in Tv mode, I guess that explains the f/29. Most all the time I shoot in Av mode with the ISO set @ 100, unless I need more light then I may up the ISO. I have found the 40D to be very clean (not much noise) even when shooting ISO 400 and 800.

If you would like to send the RAW file my email is
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/22970/orig/706752.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/22970/orig/706752.gif', '/') + 1) . '


Sent! Thanks Scott!

I haven't received it yet. Email must be slow today. I check again in a few minutes.
09/16/2008 01:06:46 PM · #12
It's a large file, are you blocked from receiving anything too big? Do you maybe have a gmail account I can send it to? I have to run out in about 15 minutes to take my neighbor to the doctor.
09/16/2008 01:21:39 PM · #13
Originally posted by Kelli:

When I open the converted file in NI, it looks like someone threw a canvas texture over them they are so noisy.

A note on this point - I read somewhere that Neat Image increases the noise in the preview purposely to "better exemplify" how the software works.
09/16/2008 01:23:57 PM · #14
Originally posted by smurfguy:

Originally posted by Kelli:

When I open the converted file in NI, it looks like someone threw a canvas texture over them they are so noisy.

A note on this point - I read somewhere that Neat Image increases the noise in the preview purposely to "better exemplify" how the software works.


I have to agree, most softwares for Noise reduction amplify it somewhat when looking in their application, not sure if its so they look better, or so it is easier for the software to profile and fix the noise.

Matt

//farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2834586812_86e727c09f_o.jpg

This is the 40D at 400 ISO as well, this is JPEG straight out of the camera and ran half page in the paper, noise should not be an issue even @1000 ISO on the 40D, at least that was my experience while I had it.

Message edited by Manic - please keep images under 500px & 30kb, or post links or thumbs instead.
09/16/2008 01:27:05 PM · #15
Post a 100% crop of some of the noise and where it is. Is it all over evenly? is it in the sky? is it in the shadows?
09/16/2008 01:36:10 PM · #16
I have received it. Looking at a 100% crop in bridge I don't see a high degree of noise. What I do see is soft details due to a small aperture of f/29. I will post a 800x picture with a crop attached. The only editing was auto levels and auto curves, USM and resize for web.

[thumb]722107[/thumb]

Some detail was lost due to the lighting. The sun was overhead and to the left.

Hope this helps.

Try using the Av mode if you get a chance to take this picture again. I would us f/5.6-11.0 and see what happens.

Scott

Message edited by author 2008-09-16 13:47:39.
09/16/2008 02:08:39 PM · #17
Thanks Scott. I will try it again in the very near future that way. I guess the noise in NI is what smurfguy & Matt were talking about. It just threw me, I wasn't expecting it. I'm trying to learn the new camera, but the learning curve is steep, LOL!
09/16/2008 02:15:03 PM · #18
Originally posted by Kelli:

Thanks Scott. I will try it again in the very near future that way. I guess the noise in NI is what smurfguy & Matt were talking about. It just threw me, I wasn't expecting it. I'm trying to learn the new camera, but the learning curve is steep, LOL!

I know how you feel. I went from the 350XT to the 40D and the learning curve is huge but achievable. I still haven't scratched the surface of what the 40D is capable of doing.

Keep Shooting. BTW, you shot looks good to me.

Message edited by author 2008-09-16 14:15:38.
09/16/2008 03:21:56 PM · #19
If it's nice and light outside you can get away with dropping the ISO to 200 or 100 even.
09/16/2008 03:42:50 PM · #20
Originally posted by dd1989:

If it's nice and light outside you can get away with dropping the ISO to 200 or 100 even.


I always shoot 100 light permitting. 400 will show a bit of noise esp neat image. try shooting AV mode with the ISO on 100



Message edited by author 2008-09-16 15:43:34.
09/16/2008 03:47:53 PM · #21
Check in the DPP conversion that you don't have any sharpening set - that adds all sorts of noise & specs.
Are you making styles adjustments in DPP? Also, in DPP, there is also another tab in tools for noise reduction - I've found it can make a huge difference before it is converted.
09/16/2008 03:54:25 PM · #22
The default in DPP is 3 for sharpening in the Raw tab. I usually leave that one alone. I have played with the sharpening in the RGB tab though. I guess it's better to leave that for photoshop.
09/16/2008 03:56:19 PM · #23
Kelli,
I've tried about every sharpening method in DPP and found it only adds speckles and noise.
I default all my conversions in DPP to 0 sharpening and take care of it (if needed) in PS.
09/16/2008 03:59:29 PM · #24
That's good to know Brad. Thanks! I miss Raw Shooters Essentials.
09/23/2008 07:07:32 PM · #25
I'm also quite disappointed with the noise on my new 40D vs my old Rebel XT at almost every ISO level. If you figure this out, let us all know! I'm about to send my camera back and see if it's a bad copy.
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