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11/05/2008 01:27:12 AM · #1
......should I be avoiding any in particular?
11/05/2008 02:20:08 AM · #2
Try starting with this
Thread.
One thing to keep in consideration: pretty much without a doubt, business class laptops will give you better performance and especially reliability.
I, personally, have always heard terrible things about Compaq, but some folks (like in that thread), like them as well. Sometimes it's just a matter of luck and getting or not getting a lemon.
11/05/2008 04:26:20 AM · #3
Originally posted by ordinaryangel:

......should I be avoiding any in particular?


Apple. Unless, of course, you enjoy paying way too much for average hardware and a glittery OS.
11/05/2008 07:40:46 AM · #4
Originally posted by Anti-Martyr:

Originally posted by ordinaryangel:

......should I be avoiding any in particular?


Apple. Unless, of course, you enjoy paying way too much for average hardware and a glittery OS.

The Apple lovers are going to take real exception to this statement ;-) However, I agree with it. Apple laptops are often several times as expensive as a Windows laptop, and offer nothing to justify that price in terms of performance.

I posted in the thread that ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' spiritualspatula linked to, but I'll sum up my views on laptops:

Trust: Acer, Dell, HP (somewhat)

Don't Trust: Compaq, Toshiba, Averatec, Fujitsu.

If I trust a brand, it's because I've used it (or known someone trustworthy that did) and haven't experienced problems with it. If I don't trust it, it's because I & people close to me have had problems with that brand in the past.

Right now, the only standard sized laptop I'd buy is an Acer. Dell laptops can be a bit flaky if you get the wrong model. Actually, I'm much more interested by the new lines of micro laptops coming out, produced by small-name companies. However, while we might like their size for portability, I think that an 8" screen is a bit small for photo editing, so I won't recommend them here.
11/05/2008 08:18:55 AM · #5
Thanks for the input so far :)
11/05/2008 10:29:52 AM · #6
Originally posted by Anti-Martyr:

Originally posted by ordinaryangel:

......should I be avoiding any in particular?


Apple. Unless, of course, you enjoy paying way too much for average hardware and a glittery OS.


Hmmmm I don't think Apple and OSX are "glittery" unless you consider functionality and stability as "glittery".

If anything, most Windows machines that come packed with system bogging adware and boast a scarcity of functional software should be considered "glittery".

Keep in mind that with a Mac and OSX, you have access to two OS's already, OSX and Unix, (the Unix you can access via an X-Windows interface or a command terminal) and, of course, it's simple to install windows as well. It's also easy to switch between any of the 3 without rebooting.

Personally, given the headaches that come with PC ownership, I'll take Mac any day.

Message edited by author 2008-11-05 10:39:10.
11/05/2008 10:34:21 AM · #7
My trusted are: HP (more lately), ASUS, Apple, Tosihiba (so-so)
My avoid are: ACER (bad customer support and have had nothing but problems on more than one laptop)
11/05/2008 10:57:39 AM · #8
Originally posted by Anti-Martyr:

...Apple. Unless, of course, you enjoy paying way too much for average hardware and a glittery OS.


Or you coud say the OS is exemplary, elegant and stable (not to be confused with its issue-plagued imitation), better integrated with the hardware. A broad range of functionalities is covered by applications that come bundled with the OS and need not be purchased individually. Macs, I'm sure, also look better to anyone who cares about form.

Given these advantages, I'd consider Macs a steal.

11/05/2008 11:16:16 AM · #9
i was just looking at the mac book air yesterday. f*cking awesome thing, but unless you wanna spent 1500() on a lap top and really care about size and weight i guess you're better off with something else.
have heard really good things about all the (especially) older ibm's, but also newer lenovos are great.
11/05/2008 11:38:15 AM · #10
Originally posted by Mephisto:

i was just looking at the mac book air yesterday. f*cking awesome thing, but unless you wanna spent 1500() on a lap top and really care about size and weight i guess you're better off with something else.
have heard really good things about all the (especially) older ibm's, but also newer lenovos are great.


You might be better off having someone buy you one in the US and then have him it ship it overseas. Macs are expensive in Germany and considerable less over here. The entry model would only be be about 775 at the converted value.

Message edited by author 2008-11-05 11:38:37.
11/05/2008 11:46:45 AM · #11
I have been using PC's since early 80's. DOS wasn't really that bad to deal with. But almost all windows versions have been a royal pain in the rear. XP must be the best of bunch IMO. Vista is no good for me (even Microsoft realizes it's no good will soon come out with a new version). On a positive note; Microsoft are copying more and more from OSX (Mac) in an attempt to make it better.

In the end I got so tired of bugs, viruses, worms, 'blue screens of death' and patches that I just gave up. My experience with a MAC is that I can now fully concentrate on the applications; not what's under the hood.

And yes: The display on the MAC laptops of newer age are very sharp. It does cost a little more, but much like cameras and lenses; you get what you pay for.

It is a real downer to get to work and forced to use my desktop and laptop PC's (HP). It feels as though I'm stepping way back in time and using old fashion equipment. And as it turns out I am the director of IT at my work place but we're unfortunately just too deep into the PC world to make a change any time soon.
11/05/2008 11:49:02 AM · #12
Originally posted by TrollMan:

I have been using PC's since early 80's. DOS wasn't really that bad to deal with. But almost all windows versions have been a royal pain in the rear. XP must be the best of bunch IMO. Vista is no good for me (even Microsoft realizes it's no good will soon come out with a new version). On a positive note; Microsoft are copying more and more from OSX (Mac) in an attempt to make it better.

In the end I got so tired of bugs, viruses, worms, 'blue screens of death' and patches that I just gave up. My experience with a MAC is that I can now fully concentrate on the applications; not what's under the hood.

And yes: The display on the MAC laptops of newer age are very sharp. It does cost a little more, but much like cameras and lenses; you get what you pay for.

It is a real downer to get to work and forced to use my desktop and laptop PC's (HP). It feels as though I'm stepping way back in time and using old fashion equipment. And as it turns out I am the director of IT at my work place but we're unfortunately just too deep into the PC world to make a change any time soon.


I knew all that time we spent hanging out in Norway would payoff! Another Mac convert! ;-)
11/05/2008 11:52:41 AM · #13
I can't say MS is uipset about Vista and 'replacing it'. It's been out what, 2 or 2 1/2 years now? It's about due for an upgrade,and they often change names.

Windows (1, 2, 3, 3.11), 95, 98, Me / 2000, XP (and it's variants -Pro, Media Center,etc) and Vista (and it's variations of home, premium, etc). I hear the next will be Windows 7.0 - so it's back to the original naming scheme. And it will have teething problems like most of the rest. Me sucked from all I've heard. I did 3.11, 95, 98 and XP Pro and just got a vista 64 machine last week and once I got the crap off of it and turned off all the nuisance security BS it works just fine. Perhaps if all my machines ran Vista the security would be less intrusive, who knows.

When I went to XP is when I had to pretty much replace all my hardware as there were no drivers for most of it and what did exist worked poorly.
11/05/2008 11:53:59 AM · #14
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by Mephisto:

i was just looking at the mac book air yesterday. f*cking awesome thing, but unless you wanna spent 1500() on a lap top and really care about size and weight i guess you're better off with something else.
have heard really good things about all the (especially) older ibm's, but also newer lenovos are great.


You might be better off having someone buy you one in the US and then have him it ship it overseas. Macs are expensive in Germany and considerable less over here. The entry model would only be be about 775 at the converted value.


wow, that's like half the prize. still wouldn't consider it for myself, just wanted to point out my awe for this cool piece of gadget ;)
11/05/2008 12:10:36 PM · #15
Originally posted by scarbrd:

I knew all that time we spent hanging out in Norway would payoff! Another Mac convert! ;-)


Hehe - I should've mentioned that you were one of the early factors that made me come to "the others"... (I miss LOST!) :)
11/05/2008 12:28:48 PM · #16
I've been very happy with the Gateway convertibles (the swivel screens, turning them into a tablet or a laptop) models. I've bought the same model line for my last two laptops. It's very nice to be able to sit in an airport, or on the couch, and use the tablet to browse the web or photos. (Tablets aren't as cool for actually doing work or typing, so that's where the convertible comes in.)

I've found the tablet line of Gateways are built really well, and have performed very well. They are not "small" though.

My laptop before those two was a Dell Inspiron, which also served me well and is still working to this day--it's about 7 or more years old. (I usually buy a new laptop every two years.)

As to Apple versus PC, I'll just add in my own experience (hoping not to derail your thread by starting a "Apple/PC platform war"). I'll just quickly add in that last November I decided I couldn't lose by going with an Apple desktop (Mac Pro). I could run Mac software and PC software on the same machine. I bought the Mac Pro with 5 GB memory, a couple terabytes of space, and Parallels for running Windows side by side. After less than a year I finally decided it was a bad strategy and replaced it with a PC running Vista 64. I found that I preferred the Windows GUI by far to Apple (among other things, I didn't like Finder in particular compared to a two pane, tree-based explorer, having one menu for all apps even though I had two monitors; the copy/replace behavior of folders, etc.). The Apple's reliability may be legendary--but to me, under Leopard, it was just a legend. The Mac crashed much more than any of my Windows machines (and my new Vista machine has yet to crash; my Mac under Leopard had several panic attacks by this same time). Most of all, I had difficulty replacing my PC software with Mac software that I liked, so I ended up running everything except Lightroom and Firefox under Windows in Parallels. Windows in Parallels is indeed great, but it's not as fast as a dedicated PC, and there are limitations/tradeoffs.

Anyway, Macs are fine if you find the software you want runs well under Native Mac OS and you like the way the Mac GUI works. Apple makes some nice laptops. But a Vista machine is just as good if not better, IMHO. Don't let the anti-Vista ad campaign sway you. I don't think Vista is "broken" as the Apple ads imply. So far, Vista 32 on my Gateway laptop, and my new Vista 64 machine, have both worked great.

11/06/2008 01:01:52 AM · #17
FWIW, as I've said elsewhere, and to second ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Mephisto, Thinkpads (now under Lenovo ownership) are great. The ordering process was somewhat dicey, but the machine is great. For all you Mac naysayers- keep this in mind- Mac just converted it's MBP frame to a copy cat of what the Thinkpads have been using for years in order to increase the MBP's durability. They chose aluminum though, which scratches easily and transmits loads of heat (although it looks pretty chic). Thinkpads boast up to 1GB of GPU power. Up to 2.8 Ghz Dual Core CPU. PCI Express slot. Media Slot. Ultrabay hot swappable drives. Ultimate security. Comparable price point. Oh yeah- their keyboard is considered the best in laptops for feel and function. They even had an answer to the Macbook Air, shortly after the Air debuted, and it was lighter, thinner, and had better battery life, while still keeping the great frame developed for other Thinkpad machines. If you like the Mac OS, go Mac. Some love it, but I've always been for PC's. When I bought my Thinkpad, I was also considering MBP's, for the record.


Message edited by author 2008-11-06 01:06:30.
01/08/2009 03:43:35 PM · #18
Originally posted by ordinaryangel:

......should I be avoiding any in particular?


As you can see, that is not so easily answered as each major brand name has mentioned on both the pros AND the cons list ;)

To be honest, the only companies that I really feel strong feelings against are Dell, and Apple. Dell because they hold the largest market share and I personally feel that quality gets lost when you mass produce units on that scale(SONY is another in general electronics). Also, they charge much more for their models than competing models.

Macbooks are just ridiculously expensive for what you get. I'm not a fan, some people swear by them.

It's about what you can get for the money. And if possible, get XP or a book with XP on it already. For what we do, it's about RAM. At least 2 gigs, preferably 4 (though XP will only register somewhere under 3.5 gigs of it).
Secondary to RAM if you don't have an external drive, and you're going to use your book for your storage, get a big hard drive. It'll be slower than a desktop hard drive, but you can get them in 250GB models now pretty standard. That's a big drive for a book.

Hope this helps. I love talking computers.
01/08/2009 03:51:27 PM · #19
there are no duties to consider ?

i was asked to bring a 1d mk3 to europe to deliver to a friend of a friend, in order to avoid the duty fees of shipping it there. i turned his request over to the USPS...

Originally posted by zeuszen:

You might be better off having someone buy you one in the US and then have him it ship it overseas. Macs are expensive in Germany and considerable less over here. The entry model would only be be about 775 at the converted value.

01/08/2009 04:02:14 PM · #20
Originally posted by soup:

there are no duties to consider ?

i was asked to bring a 1d mk3 to europe to deliver to a friend of a friend, in order to avoid the duty fees of shipping it there. i turned his request over to the USPS...

Originally posted by zeuszen:

You might be better off having someone buy you one in the US and then have him it ship it overseas. Macs are expensive in Germany and considerable less over here. The entry model would only be be about 775 at the converted value.


Including duty, it'll still be cheaper than buying German retail.
01/08/2009 04:46:14 PM · #21
i'm going to +1 for Apple
i agree that the prices are high but i'd disagree that they are overpriced. there are a couple things to keep in mind that contribute to the high prices.

- MacBook Pro models use S-PVA screens instead of TN Film screens used by almost all other manufacturers (the the only other computers that use PVA/MVA are Thinkpads, and they are just as expensive). S-PVA screens are a lot more expensive than TN panels, but they are true 8-bit vs. overdriven 6-bit so they produce better color and are easier on the eyes because of reduced distance between pixels.
- Design costs money. people complain that you're paying for design, but that's part of the product. same reason why well-designed shoes, cars, or furniture costs more money. Though people will call apple computers overpriced, few will argue they are indeed well-designed. The new models, especially, are extremely robust because of the way they are manufactured and they are one of the few metal body notebooks you can buy (ASUS and sony make aluminum notebooks).
- You get 1 year of in-store on-demand support. This is especially convenient if you live within driving/walking distance of an apple store. There is no other manufacturer that can offer that.
- Bundled software is actually useful. Most manufacturers also include ad-supported bloatware to reduce cost.
- OS X. Though some find it to be "glittery", I actually find it to be quite stable, and its power management and sleep/wake implementations make it the perfect laptop OS. I know you can install OS X on other machines, but for someone who wants hassle-free OS, apple hardware is the way to go.
01/08/2009 05:21:23 PM · #22
Alienware
nuff said ;)
01/09/2009 09:18:36 AM · #23
Alienware (really the company is now Dell) are nice if you game and want to spend 1,000 more on the same rig than if you built it yourself or had somebody locally assemble bought parts.
01/09/2009 09:27:46 AM · #24
I changed to OSX last year (iMac) and never looked back. In terms of stability, usability, and of course glitteriness, I love it. For the record, my broken 2yo Thinkpad R60 (dead battery, faulty touchpad and trashed hard disk) is now a door-stop. My 3yo P4 PC is now a handy shelf for my router.

I did install Vista on the old PC the other night, and all I can say is th-

"Windows needs your permission to continue", okay.

..that it's not as bad as peo-

"Windows needs your permission to continue", okay.

..people make it out to be.

01/09/2009 09:57:12 AM · #25
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Alienware (really the company is now Dell) are nice if you game and want to spend 1,000 more on the same rig than if you built it yourself or had somebody locally assemble bought parts.

but you can log in with your finger. thats worth the extra 1000
lol
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