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11/05/2008 03:40:10 PM · #26
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I found that certain things took some time to get used to since they work "differently" than they do under Windows, so if you do switch, you should keep that in mind.


There certainly was a few occasions of head scratching, or actually having to use the built-in help (which is mostly lucidly written) or searching on Google (most things were pretty easy to find, as many people have struggled along the same path potentially before you). Took a couple of days to get comfortable with some of the peccadillos of the platform, but the single impression I was left with after a couple of weeks was how often things just 'worked' the way you thought they should.

For photo editing I'm mostly using Lightroom. Tried Aperture, didn't find anything too compelling to change my mind. I don't really do pixel level photo editing any more, so don't have Photoshop.


Yes, accomodating most of the "differences" between OSX and Windows involved unlearning the counter-intuitive way the same things were done in Windows. I have the entire Adobe Creative Suite and it's a dream. I may "downgrade" to Lightroom since I don't really need the cababilities that PS offers all that much.

11/05/2008 04:00:16 PM · #27
I am annoyed at the moment, which mixed with my strong distaste for apple is making me have second thoughts.

The MBP, that I had planned to get, would be $3000. Their return policy is 14 days and a 10% restocking fee. This isn't uncommon I know, however, 10% on a $100 item is a big difference from 10% on a $3000 dollar item.

So the idea of sitting down with one in an apple store for an hour or two and actually give it a good run for the money seemed the most logical step. However apple stores do not have seats, benches, or stools I have learned. They point to the laptop and say, mac is awesome, buy a mac, and you are supposed to gamble your $300 on their word alone.

Because as much of a taste as I got at best buy standing up using their laptops, I was never able to become comfortable and got tired of standing after a while and left, if I would have had cash in hand, I would not have spent it that day because I just wasn't and still am not sure I like mac.

So I apologize, I'm just a little pissy right now. I want to try out the product in a realistic manner or have a more reasonable return policy. Neither of which looks likely.
11/05/2008 04:14:26 PM · #28
Originally posted by togtog:

I am annoyed at the moment, which mixed with my strong distaste for apple is making me have second thoughts.

The MBP, that I had planned to get, would be $3000. Their return policy is 14 days and a 10% restocking fee. This isn't uncommon I know, however, 10% on a $100 item is a big difference from 10% on a $3000 dollar item.

So the idea of sitting down with one in an apple store for an hour or two and actually give it a good run for the money seemed the most logical step. However apple stores do not have seats, benches, or stools I have learned. They point to the laptop and say, mac is awesome, buy a mac, and you are supposed to gamble your $300 on their word alone.

Because as much of a taste as I got at best buy standing up using their laptops, I was never able to become comfortable and got tired of standing after a while and left, if I would have had cash in hand, I would not have spent it that day because I just wasn't and still am not sure I like mac.

So I apologize, I'm just a little pissy right now. I want to try out the product in a realistic manner or have a more reasonable return policy. Neither of which looks likely.


You should call the store and schedule an appointment with a Mac Genius.
11/05/2008 04:35:41 PM · #29
Originally posted by togtog:


So I apologize, I'm just a little pissy right now. I want to try out the product in a realistic manner or have a more reasonable return policy. Neither of which looks likely.


When I was considering buying one Apple loaned me a macbook pro for a month to decide.

Message edited by author 2008-11-05 16:40:38.
11/05/2008 05:24:15 PM · #30
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by togtog:


So I apologize, I'm just a little pissy right now. I want to try out the product in a realistic manner or have a more reasonable return policy. Neither of which looks likely.


When I was considering buying one Apple loaned me a macbook pro for a month to decide.


Seriously? Could you give some details about that and how long ago it was? I have no problem having to foot the whole bill up front or anything, I just don't want to lose $300 when I'm not sure how I will feel after a days worth of typing and other use. Battery life, etc. none of which can really be tested in a store. I'd probably even be willing to write a review about the experience.
11/05/2008 05:33:24 PM · #31
Originally posted by togtog:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by togtog:


So I apologize, I'm just a little pissy right now. I want to try out the product in a realistic manner or have a more reasonable return policy. Neither of which looks likely.


When I was considering buying one Apple loaned me a macbook pro for a month to decide.


Seriously? Could you give some details about that and how long ago it was? I have no problem having to foot the whole bill up front or anything, I just don't want to lose $300 when I'm not sure how I will feel after a days worth of typing and other use. Battery life, etc. none of which can really be tested in a store. I'd probably even be willing to write a review about the experience.


We did this about 9 months ago. It was for a business, which may make a difference and we probably told them we were considering buying a dozen, which no doubt helped.

I'm sure one way or another if you contact the store they can let you use it for a more extended period or in more realistic circumstances than standing at a counter.
11/05/2008 06:46:31 PM · #32
Consider a refurb--in the online store, bottom left. Up to 40% off right now, they come with original warranties, no scratches (factory refurbed), check speed and sizes (nVidia on the graphics card for instance.) I've bought several that way. Since they just came out with new models, the old ones (usually open box returns) are plentiful.

Yeah, no chairs, the idea is that you'd rove from station to station, all of which have different offerings or peripherals. You must not have been in the store when there was crushing volume of shoppers, chairs would be a nightmare. There are still independent Mac dealers around, with chairs. A Genius Bar appointment would get you a chair.
11/06/2008 01:09:55 PM · #33
It turns out the Apple Store near my office is closed until he 22nd, otherwise I'd test drive the MacBook today. Good thing, in a way. I'm usually too impulsive, and might simply buy immediately. This will give me time to consider. I watched a few videos at the apple site concerning OSX Leopard. That's a lot of whiz-bang. :-P It's kind of what I mean by the OS getting in the way. I'm hoping that Gordon's experience of things just seeming to work as they should moreso than Vista is going to seem right to me, once I test the OS.
11/06/2008 02:25:59 PM · #34
Originally posted by Louis:

It turns out the Apple Store near my office is closed until he 22nd, otherwise I'd test drive the MacBook today. Good thing, in a way. I'm usually too impulsive, and might simply buy immediately. This will give me time to consider. I watched a few videos at the apple site concerning OSX Leopard. That's a lot of whiz-bang. :-P It's kind of what I mean by the OS getting in the way. I'm hoping that Gordon's experience of things just seeming to work as they should moreso than Vista is going to seem right to me, once I test the OS.

Go for it Louis - I switched a few months ago (to iMac) and all I'm left wondering is why I wasted the last 20 years babysitting Windows.

I still need XP for .net dev stuff, unfortunately, so I installed Virtualbox with XP on top (freeware)

Watch a few more of these adverts on apple.com, and then get your cheque book out.... :-D

Message edited by author 2008-11-06 14:26:26.
11/07/2008 02:57:08 PM · #35
Leopard OSX is 64-bit? Apparently so. Are new installations of OSX on the MacBook Pro 64-bit? Can anyone confirm? I don't know.

I forgot that Best Buy sells Macs, so I tried out the MacBooks yesterday. I got that old feeling of not really knowing what the hell I was doing in OSX. :-/ It was somewhat disconcerting, and it's making me think twice. I have Vista problems, but not necessarily deal-killers, and I know Windows and its file system inside out, so I'm getting cold feet. I'm wondering if my need for specialized writing software is really worth switching operating systems for.

No decision yet, but I'm contorted currently. Any info on the 64-bit thing would be appreciated.
11/07/2008 03:15:20 PM · #36
Originally posted by Louis:

Leopard OSX is 64-bit? Apparently so. Are new installations of OSX on the MacBook Pro 64-bit? Can anyone confirm?


All new Mac's with Leopard installed are 64-bit. The MacBook Pro is not an exception.
11/07/2008 03:19:33 PM · #37
TY. :-)
11/07/2008 03:41:24 PM · #38
what writing software in particular are you looking for? That sort of stuff was one of the main draws of OSX for me too. Various bits and pieces of software that I couldn't find on any other platform.

11/07/2008 03:57:49 PM · #39
Originally posted by Gordon:

what writing software in particular are you looking for? That sort of stuff was one of the main draws of OSX for me too. Various bits and pieces of software that I couldn't find on any other platform.

I want to use Scrivener.

I use ZS Eclipse for my work, and I've heard mixed reviews of its performance on Leopard for some reason, but I'm not too concerned (people are generally lazy or dumb when it comes to such things). I also use ZS for HTML work, which is a bit of a chore, and XML, which is less of a chore, but I'd like to use Coda for HTML and CSS (not sure if it can write XML, or Schema, but ZS does a good job of that), especially since it now supports subversion.

There's other dribs and drabs I've come across that were Mac only, that I was sorry about, but which I've since forgotten.
11/07/2008 04:06:51 PM · #40
I've got about half a book written in Scrivener - I quite like it so far. Also found Ecto really good for blogging. Never could find anything equivalent for windows that worked as well.
11/07/2008 04:11:12 PM · #41
I've struggled with about a dozen pieces of writing software in the last two years. I always default to Word plus Windows Explorer, and as the months go by, I'm simply getting swamped. Nothing, nothing seems to be quite right; everything has something wrong with it, or doesn't do something quite as expected, or has a terrible old-school-Windows quirk that I can't get over. I've spent more money than I should on software I ultimately abandon. Plus, most of the Windows writing software out there is very very old, and looks like it belongs on 3.1. Form as well as function is actually important to me.

When I found Scrivener, it seemed just right, and the author's bluntness about the product and where it came from really had me jazzed. I'd really like to give it a shot.
11/07/2008 04:13:30 PM · #42
This is about as close to scrivener as I have found for windows. One nice point is that it is free.
11/07/2008 04:18:50 PM · #43
Originally posted by violinist123:

This is about as close to scrivener as I have found for windows. One nice point is that it is free.

Thanks -- I think I tried that, and it seemed better for screenwriting and especially collaboration. Can't recall if it was another one I tried, but I'll check this out again.
11/07/2008 04:23:50 PM · #44
Originally posted by Louis:

but I'd like to use Coda for HTML and CSS (not sure if it can write XML, or Schema, but ZS does a good job of that), especially since it now supports subversion

I use Coda myself and yes, you can write XML in Coda Louis. I attached a link to a screenshot I just made of Coda's "New File" menu
11/07/2008 04:48:53 PM · #45
Oh, Thanks!
11/07/2008 07:18:56 PM · #46
I had used Windows since Windows 286 and considered myself a bit of an expert at it. I bought a mac a few years ago because I wanted to be more familiar unix and figured OS X would give me a nice UI plus let me work at the command line level. I love my mac so much now that I would rather pay full price for a mac than get a windows laptop for free.

I you are like me, you became an expert at windows because you are constantly fix or tweaking it for yourself, family and friends. I'm happy to say I'm not an expert on OS X because I've never had to worry about it for even a second. No file system issues, no corrupted registry, no DLLs out of sync after removing an app, no adware dragging it to it's knees. It will literally run for months without being booted (yes, it's very seldom that an update will require a reboot). Now I focus on what I do with my computer rather than on the computer itself.
11/07/2008 08:44:45 PM · #47
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

I had used Windows since Windows 286 and considered myself a bit of an expert at it. I bought a mac a few years ago because I wanted to be more familiar unix and figured OS X would give me a nice UI plus let me work at the command line level. I love my mac so much now that I would rather pay full price for a mac than get a windows laptop for free.

I you are like me, you became an expert at windows because you are constantly fix or tweaking it for yourself, family and friends. I'm happy to say I'm not an expert on OS X because I've never had to worry about it for even a second. No file system issues, no corrupted registry, no DLLs out of sync after removing an app, no adware dragging it to it's knees. It will literally run for months without being booted (yes, it's very seldom that an update will require a reboot). Now I focus on what I do with my computer rather than on the computer itself.


Ed Zachary
11/07/2008 08:45:09 PM · #48
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

I you are like me, you became an expert at windows because you are constantly fix or tweaking it for yourself, family and friends...

Actually, I started out as a Windows developer and moved on to web application development. My familiarity with it grows from usage, yes, but it was also my vocation for a while.

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

No file system issues, no corrupted registry, no DLLs out of sync after removing an app, no adware dragging it to it's knees.

I don't have those issues with Windows, just to let you know. :-) I never have. Windows, and Vista, has its problems, but for me, they are usability problems that I hope are corrected by a part-time OS switch. I'd still need to use Vista for work and most of my recreational stuff. Software support is very important to me. I'm considering the MacBook for certain specialized software you just can't get on Windows.

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

It will literally run for months without being booted (yes, it's very seldom that an update will require a reboot).

Oops. ;-) I'm not into OSX because I think it'll save me from headaches. I expect headaches. Consider this thread.

I don't necessarily need to discuss the pros of OSX over Vista, although I do value your opinion and everyone else's regarding their personal experiences -- they'll help me make my decision -- but just so it's known, I'm not an OS evangelist for Windows or OSX. I just want to get the job done, whatever the job happens to be at the moment, with the right tool. Leopard appears to solve some form/function issues for me right now. I have no illusions that it will not introduce other issues for me, however.
11/07/2008 11:34:52 PM · #49
It sounds like you've made up your mind about what a MacBook will offer you, but need to decide if it's really the way you want to go.
11/10/2008 12:11:34 PM · #50
I had the same concerns as yourself. I had so many Windows apps that each did their little thing for me. In March I finally took the step and kicked my Dell for a MacbookPro.

Only regret is ... why the F??? didn't I do it MUCH before!

I also got an iPhone 3G now, and I have the same feeling as I did with the Mac. After one year, I never found out how to use my PDA. With the iPhone, I did not use a manual at all the first two weeks! It is quite simple, but ... IT WORKS! And it makes SENSE, and I think in general, Apple stuff is made FOR humans, whereas windows stuff is made so humans must adopt to it.

I used to think that Macs were for freaks who saw the light, artists and hard core graphics designers, but now I see it is for REAL people. After I got my parents a Mac, I hardly get any tech questions from them any more! Because it works, makes sense and is so intuitive you don't really need a manual.
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