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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Louis, this is for you
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12/01/2008 10:26:30 AM · #1
Are we living a dream or is this going to turn out to be the biggest fiasco in Canadian history? Seeing the Bloc and the Libs getting together to topple the government and then seeing the NDP come in to glue it all together is something even the biggest team of writers would never have come up with for the life of them.

What do you think Louis, and anyone else who would care to join in on History in the making. lol Or not if our PM MR. Harper comes out with a stimulus plan this week. I'm just having fun seeing this obnoxious, selfish, two faced SOB begging to the opposition not to bring his minority government down. HA HA HA Mr. Harper, you deserve it 100%

It may not last but it's fun seeing it happen this way. Now this is fun politics.

The Humbling of a Prime Minister
12/01/2008 11:13:14 AM · #2
Well I'm quite excited of course. I've been despondent at the lack of coalition governments in this country in the case of the minority situation, which seems a likely outcome in all elections for the foreseeable future, given that we have three major parties, a separatist party, and now the up-and-coming Greens. A coalition of the left is the best thing that could happen. Since the majority of Canadians voted left, and will thereby have their representative government, Harper has some balls saying they're trying to subvert democracy. What a clown.

Remember when the Cons hooked up with the NDP and the dreaded Block in 2004 to suggest to the Governor General that they were going to form a coalition? What a freaking hypocritical boob this guy is. Is he nuts? How insulting is it to voters to cobble together plans while in Opposition, only to cry foul and actually suggest the other parties are guilty of some heinous underhanded trick when they do the exact same thing? What a cynical prick. It's politics of the expedient with these people, as usual. It's just disgusting.

And then, in a shameless, bile-rising moment of self-serving demagoguery, to watch the spectacle of him standing in front of cameras announcing that Opposition Day is delayed so that voters can "make themselves heard" to their MPs is simply astounding to me. What's this talk about subverting democracy? Isn't that what is on display here? Actively trying to stir the masses to help him prevent the very mechanism meant to preserve democracy? The air is thick with the stench of his hypocrisy.

The proof is in the pudding. All their bellicose talk, all their tough-guy ranting more appropriate to 1930s gangster films, deflates utterly when they realize that the opposition is not going to blink this time. Not only do they not deserve to govern this country when you consider where the overwhelming majority of its constituents fall on the political spectrum, but they don't deserve to govern for being nothing but a pack of self-interested school-ground thugs. They can't even get their rhetoric straight. Well, is it "we're not going to bend one iota on this issue," or is it, "we're not going to do any of the things we said"? Such a spectacular reversal fairly reeks of desperation.

Not a leader. I think Harper can kiss his job goodbye, should the government fall.
12/01/2008 11:52:31 AM · #3
It is mere speculation to think that the GG would even consider the proposal made here...it hasn't happened in the past and is not likely to happen in this instance.

Be very careful of what you wish for... the GG could direct the government to call an election, and with the Liberal party in disarry and with severely depleted campaign coffers, you could very well see a scenario where the populace might want to punish those parties that initiated this fiasco, with the ensuing results being that the Conservatives could win a majority.

Similarly, one must not overlook the fact that the Bloc Quebecois has no allegiance to any of the other parties and could quite conceivably back the Conservatives if they sense that to do so would benefit Quebec.

I would not be to quick to sound the death knell of the Conservative party just yet.

Ray

Message edited by author 2008-12-01 11:53:10.
12/01/2008 12:04:08 PM · #4
It happened once, in 1918 with Borden's government in order to secure a majority vote to pass conscription legislation during WWI. See wiki. The scholarly talk around the table is that the GG would be obliged to give an opposition coalition the chance to govern. The lawyers are saying it's pretty much a done deal if the government is voted down.

Don't write the conservatives off, no. But in my view, if the government stands, Flaherty is out of a job. If the government falls, Harper can kiss the leadership goodbye.
12/01/2008 12:19:12 PM · #5
Originally posted by RayEthier:

It is mere speculation to think that the GG would even consider the proposal made here...it hasn't happened in the past and is not likely to happen in this instance.

Be very careful of what you wish for... the GG could direct the government to call an election, and with the Liberal party in disarry and with severely depleted campaign coffers, you could very well see a scenario where the populace might want to punish those parties that initiated this fiasco, with the ensuing results being that the Conservatives could win a majority.

Similarly, one must not overlook the fact that the Bloc Quebecois has no allegiance to any of the other parties and could quite conceivably back the Conservatives if they sense that to do so would benefit Quebec.

I would not be to quick to sound the death knell of the Conservative party just yet.

Ray


True Ray. I'm not taking this seriously at all because of the Bloc being involved. I laughed when I first heard it, thought it was another joke from the two radio guys who caught Palin off guard a few weeks ago. It's too bad the Libs lost so many seats though because this could have taken a different route were the Bloc not needed for a coalition, but I fantasize here. eheh

I don't mind the Tories as much as I mind Harper. His arrogant style of governing and manipulation of the press just makes me want to be sick. He does not deserve the PM job with an attitude that resembles a school yard turf war bully who's finally gotten his hands on the prize and will do anything to not lose it, even change the rules. What a punk! I love the sobby look the media images are publishing of him almost in tears. lol
12/01/2008 12:20:25 PM · #6
Years ago I was telling everybody, "Harper has evil eyes!"

Now the evil is finally being noticed. All hail the prophet, Slippy.
12/01/2008 12:31:16 PM · #7
From Jac's posted article: "Last week, a bureaucrat with close ties to the PMO, said Mr. Harper has told colleagues, 'When I'm hiring someone, I want to see fear in their eyes.'" Yeesh.

Another article from the Globe: "But then, to add to all this misconception by suggesting that the country would somehow benefit from dropping public funding of political parties - the mind boggles. Why not go all the way back to being beholden to big business? Though it's pretty hard to say, '"What's good for General Motors is good for the country' with a straight face...[Consider] the brilliance of the collective that chose to deny the Prime Minister a clear majority on Oct. 14. That he could not win 200-plus seats up against a hopeless Liberal Leader with a hopeless policy says as much about the people's trust of Harper as it does their disdain for Stéphane Dion."
12/01/2008 12:33:16 PM · #8
And Ray, that article also says this: "Harper says that if [his government falls], only another election can properly decide matters. But he is wrong. If he asked Governor-General Michaëlle Jean to allow a fresh election, she would surely refuse, given the state of the world economy and the mood of the Canadian people."
12/01/2008 12:34:42 PM · #9
Lights candles and begins to chant....

Sliiiiiippppy
Sliiiiiippppy
Sliiiiiippppydee do da, slippy de day oh my my what a wonderful day...

Everyone sing along now.... :D
12/01/2008 12:40:21 PM · #10
Originally posted by Louis:

From Jac's posted article: "Last week, a bureaucrat with close ties to the PMO, said Mr. Harper has told colleagues, 'When I'm hiring someone, I want to see fear in their eyes.'" Yeesh.

Another article from the Globe: "But then, to add to all this misconception by suggesting that the country would somehow benefit from dropping public funding of political parties - the mind boggles. Why not go all the way back to being beholden to big business? Though it's pretty hard to say, '"What's good for General Motors is good for the country' with a straight face...[Consider] the brilliance of the collective that chose to deny the Prime Minister a clear majority on Oct. 14. That he could not win 200-plus seats up against a hopeless Liberal Leader with a hopeless policy says as much about the people's trust of Harper as it does their disdain for Stéphane Dion."


He missed his chance at showing all of Canada that they were indeed the New Government of Canada and now is looking desperate and more so than even Dion did before the last election. Good on him. I think it's over for him any way this situation goes.

eta. I was going to read the linked article Louis but I read it yesterday and couldn't believe the first paragraph. I would have called him out on it on live TV.

Message edited by author 2008-12-01 12:42:29.
12/01/2008 12:58:19 PM · #11
I'm calling the Queen to sort this nonsense out :D
12/01/2008 01:09:23 PM · #12
Just the musings of a crazy man, but it occures to me that, beside the fact that this type of tactic is nothing new for Harper, it could be that he is hoping to the opposition to try and bring down the government... I can't imagine any other reason he would have introduced the measures he did.

If he could 'force' the opposition into forcing a new election he would come out of this all even stronger than in the last election... even if the 'coalition' is formed, I couldn't see it lasting very long (certainly not past the Liberal leadership convention), and when the coalition breaks down, I'm sure Harper will be there to say in essence 'I told you so'.

Not that I'm particularly impressed with the whole situation, but I wonder if this could end up being a brilliant gamble for Harper???

Or maybe it'll end up being the Iceburg that sinks his Titanic...
12/01/2008 01:40:24 PM · #13
I was on the road for about four hours today and was listening to talk radio. As you can imagine, the topic of the day was the fallout from the Conservative pre-budget snippet and the possible formation of a coalition government made up of the center-left.

Most people calling in were saying that the coalition is just a form of power-grabbing, and I think I would agree with this view. However, many callers, including staunch conservative supporters, stated that the situation now facing the minority government is a direct cause of Harper's "my way or the highway" style of leadership.

I don't think that this coalition thing is a snap decision. It's probably been brewing for quite some time.

I do believe that all parties involved have forgotten what working in a minority government means - compromise. There has to be give-and-take from both the government and opposition.


12/01/2008 01:48:16 PM · #14
Originally posted by Eyesup:

even if the 'coalition' is formed, I couldn't see it lasting very long (certainly not past the Liberal leadership convention)

In their talks to forge the coalition, the parties are fundamentally agreeing that it will govern for a minimum of two and a half years, and they'll have the seats to make it so. I understand that so long as a government is comprised of parties with different ideologies, the government is in a kind of flux, but I don't believe the opposition parties are as cynical and duplicitous as the Conservatives.
12/01/2008 01:52:46 PM · #15
Originally posted by Beagleboy:

I do believe that all parties involved have forgotten what working in a minority government means - compromise. There has to be give-and-take from both the government and opposition.

I agree. Unfortunately, when the party in power is giving the strongest signals that it will brook no compromise, what is the opposition to do? The very definition of the reason for bringing down a minority government is a lack of confidence in it. Which party could face its supporters that implicitly expressed confidence in a government that brooks no dissent, then spectacularly backpedals, then lies to the public -- out of the mouth of the Prime Minister -- by claiming that the election is stolen by the very mechanism that is meant to guarantee a fair election?
12/01/2008 02:05:50 PM · #16
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Eyesup:

even if the 'coalition' is formed, I couldn't see it lasting very long (certainly not past the Liberal leadership convention)

In their talks to forge the coalition, the parties are fundamentally agreeing that it will govern for a minimum of two and a half years, and they'll have the seats to make it so. I understand that so long as a government is comprised of parties with different ideologies, the government is in a kind of flux, but I don't believe the opposition parties are as cynical and duplicitous as the Conservatives.


They can fundamentally agree all day long... I simply can't see the NDP, Bloc, and Liberals staying in bed that long at all...
12/01/2008 05:07:59 PM · #17
Originally posted by Eyesup:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Eyesup:

even if the 'coalition' is formed, I couldn't see it lasting very long (certainly not past the Liberal leadership convention)

In their talks to forge the coalition, the parties are fundamentally agreeing that it will govern for a minimum of two and a half years, and they'll have the seats to make it so. I understand that so long as a government is comprised of parties with different ideologies, the government is in a kind of flux, but I don't believe the opposition parties are as cynical and duplicitous as the Conservatives.


They can fundamentally agree all day long... I simply can't see the NDP, Bloc, and Liberals staying in bed that long at all...

As of an hour ago, the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc now stand as signatories to an agreement to work together to at least June 2010. The NDP and Liberals will work together until June 2011.

Message edited by author 2008-12-01 17:08:26.
12/01/2008 05:29:23 PM · #18
A reader comment on this article in the Star:

"This coalition is what we all deserve, though I think for different reasons. The Conservatives deserve to be displaced by a centre-left coalition because they were foolish enough to let Harper shoot them in the foot. The rest of us deserve the coalition because it represents the kind of gov't we wanted in the first place: tolerant & progressive. We wanted medicare strengthened, the weak & disadvantaged cared for, and the application of justice absent the sting of revenge & ignorant hatred. We wanted less tasers & more food inspectors. We wanted to pay our fair share of taxes, because taxes build roads & hospitals & parks & bridges & libraries & schools & ferries & power plants & firehouses & better democracies. And we wanted to be governed by parties that saw the best of what we can become as one nation, instead of always looking for ways to divide & conquer us. The coalition won't be perfect, but it will represent & protect MY Canada. Harper will never be my leader; how could he, when he can't even look in my direction?"
12/01/2008 05:41:24 PM · #19
Originally posted by Louis:

....... Harper will never be my leader; how could he, when he can't even look in my direction?"

Harper's advisors have told him not to use his EVIL EYES unless absolutely necessary.
12/01/2008 06:09:12 PM · #20
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by Louis:

....... Harper will never be my leader; how could he, when he can't even look in my direction?"

Harper's advisors have told him not to use his EVIL EYES unless absolutely necessary.

[thumb]743956[/thumb]
12/01/2008 07:19:08 PM · #21
Isn't this happening way too fast?

Coalition Deal

12/01/2008 08:00:31 PM · #22
Note fast enough as far as I'm concerned. :P
12/01/2008 08:01:55 PM · #23
Man, I thought we were gonna get a slight respite from this election stuff ... :-(
12/01/2008 08:11:12 PM · #24
The cherry on top would be a nice juicy sex scandal!!
12/01/2008 11:27:28 PM · #25
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Man, I thought we were gonna get a slight respite from this election stuff ... :-(


I hear ya. :|

Don't you love North America's diverse political systems?
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