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12/05/2008 01:55:12 PM · #1
Blasphemy as a subject has been brought up in other threads here over the years. Myself, I'm all for blasphemy, it serves an important purpose! I feel that, sometimes, you really must knock people off their pedestals. Even if that person is a god!

But did you know there's a UN resolution (62/145, non-binding, as of yet) designed to prevent/punish speech that is offensive to religion?

From Fox News (of all places!):

U.N. Anti-Blasphemy Resolution Curtails Free Speech, Critics Say

I'm very interested in what those here who've complained about blasphemy here in the past feel about such legislation. Heck, I'm even curious what those who haven't done so think about it.

To revisit a comment I made in another post, if such a resolution passes, I can't WAIT for the radical Muslims to round up and detain all the Christians in my country... for daring to suggest that there is any god but Allah! Blasphemy!!!
12/05/2008 02:17:57 PM · #2
Jesus f**king Christ, that seems a bit harsh.

<edit> replaced U & C for a couple of **

Message edited by author 2008-12-05 14:18:28.
12/05/2008 02:19:35 PM · #3
I be thrown into prison every time I stubbed my toe.
12/05/2008 02:21:44 PM · #4
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

I be thrown into prison every time I stubbed my toe.


and come.
12/05/2008 02:22:46 PM · #5
Originally posted by Simms:

Jesus f**king Christ


What a blasphemous image you've just put in forcibly inserted into my head!

Message edited by author 2008-12-05 18:06:22.
12/05/2008 02:23:25 PM · #6
<trying to intelligently articulate what i'm wanting to say>

Defining "offensive" clearly and objectively is perhaps the most nebulous of all tasks. It is like holding melting jello in a sieve -- it can be done, but it isn't really effective and it won't last.

When I was younger, I heard someone say something to the effects that if someone gets offended, it is probably because they are looking to be offended or want to be.

Very little offends me. At this moment, I can think of nothing that truly offends me.

My point? a law like that would only cause more trouble than it would solve.

You(collectively, not personally, mousie) disagree with me? Fine. You think my God is an idiot? Whatever. I'm not his defender. He can do that himself, if he wants.

I don't need a law to try and protect me from being offended.

(using God as blasphemy is most commonly associated with religion)

(note -- I've got a wonky connection right now, so I haven't fully loaded the link in the OP, just responding to what he has said)
12/05/2008 02:33:00 PM · #7
Originally posted by karmat:

My point? a law like that would only cause more trouble than it would solve.

You(collectively, not personally, mousie) disagree with me? Fine. You think my God is an idiot? Whatever. I'm not his defender. He can do that himself, if he wants.

I don't need a law to try and protect me from being offended.


How... reasonable!!! I wish more people saw the world this way.

While it does seem true that people who are offended are often out looking for offense, it's also fair to say that there are people out there looking to offend, and their behavior can't be completely written off. However, as reasonable adults, we should be able to recognize someone who's out to offend... and either meet it with a reasoned, constructive response, or let it go.

Any attempt to legislate offense out of existence (sound familiar?) smacks of a profound insecurity, to me!
12/05/2008 05:18:43 PM · #8
Your blaspheming doesn't bother me at all.

It doesn't change my faith at all, and it won't change the fact that I can smile at you and say, "Hey, man, how you doing?"

I believe that the God that I believe in is able to kick your butt by Himself, and I'm not his policeman or defense force.

However, if you ask my opinion about blasphemy, I will strongly discourage you and tell you why I believe that you shouldn't do that.

In most cases, the blasphemer will soon call me names and attempt to blaspheme me, because he or she is quickly offended that I believe his actions to be inappropriate.

I will probably be hurt, and at that point my facade of having everything together will break down and I may become angry and wish to burn villages. That, however, does not destroy my faith. It simply makes me want to destroy the blasphemer because he has now insulted my intelligence, faith, and probably many other things about me.

But I'll still believe that God is able to defend himself. I also believe that he's a little like me in that he might get really sick and tired of it.

In other words, blasphemy often becomes personal rather than being about "God".

Making blasphemy against the law, though, is terribly counter-productive.
12/05/2008 05:20:54 PM · #9
Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

I be thrown into prison every time I stubbed my toe.

and come.

all ye faithful.
12/05/2008 05:21:48 PM · #10
Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

I be thrown into prison every time I stubbed my toe.

and come.

all ye faithful.


jizzful and tri...

Ok, I just went too far.
12/07/2008 02:17:28 PM · #11

You are a great guy Simms, but I do have to say your post is really offensive to me. I'm not saying that in some jovial way, I mean it.
12/07/2008 02:37:43 PM · #12
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

You are a great guy Simms, but I do have to say your post is really offensive to me. I'm not saying that in some jovial way, I mean it.


Sorry.

Still, you're a Christian - I'm sure you can forgive me :)
12/07/2008 02:48:27 PM · #13
Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

You are a great guy Simms, but I do have to say your post is really offensive to me. I'm not saying that in some jovial way, I mean it.


Sorry.

Still, you're a Christian - I'm sure you can forgive me :)


I can. I just had to point it out. I know you meant it as a joke. You can show your penitence by going and giving me 10s on my next three entries. ;)
12/07/2008 04:01:46 PM · #14
Originally posted by karmat:

I don't need a law to try and protect me from being offended.

Nope. You're an SC so you can simply and quietly delete any comments that you don't approve of...

...just as they used to do in Nazi Germany. ;)

12/07/2008 04:26:01 PM · #15
Originally posted by karmat:

I don't need a law to try and protect me from being offended.

Originally posted by Mick:

Nope. You're an SC so you can simply and quietly delete any comments that you don't approve of...

...just as they used to do in Nazi Germany. ;)

That's a sure fire Sneezy offense....and a darn inappropriate response.

Go 'head, ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/811.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/811.gif', '/') + 1) . ' karmat, delete him!......8>)

Message edited by author 2008-12-07 16:31:03.
12/07/2008 04:30:43 PM · #16
Originally posted by Mousie:

While it does seem true that people who are offended are often out looking for offense, it's also fair to say that there are people out there looking to offend, and their behavior can't be completely written off. However, as reasonable adults, we should be able to recognize someone who's out to offend... and either meet it with a reasoned, constructive response, or let it go.

Yes, but it's hard sometimes to let it go when you're fairly sure that the person meant it to be mean-spirited and hurtful.

I hate it when people do that and then they just claim to be good at debating to cover up that they're just being nasty.

Blasphemy is relative in this aday and age, too.

What may be blasphemy to you may just be conversation to me.

I'm fairly certain that my views on Jesus are outright blasphemy, yet I have the highest regard for the man.

Funny thing is, Jesus would probably not have me raked over the coals the way that most fundamentalists would.

That always puzzles me.......how those ostensibly the most fervid can be the most fevered.......8>)


Message edited by author 2008-12-07 16:32:01.
12/07/2008 04:52:27 PM · #17
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Funny thing is, Jesus would probably not have me raked over the coals the way that most fundamentalists would.

That always puzzles me.......how those ostensibly the most fervid can be the most fevered.......8>)


Just to point this out. You could be completely wrong. My point is that I'm not sure why you would consider your own interpretation of "Jesus" as obviously more accurate than a fundamentalist's. In other words, it's possible your first statement is completely false.

And I've been alerted that we have a Goodwin violation! To arms!

Message edited by author 2008-12-07 16:53:38.
12/07/2008 06:06:36 PM · #18
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by karmat:

I don't need a law to try and protect me from being offended.

Originally posted by Mick:

Nope. You're an SC so you can simply and quietly delete any comments that you don't approve of...

...just as they used to do in Nazi Germany. ;)

That's a sure fire Sneezy offense....and a darn inappropriate response.

Go 'head, ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/811.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/811.gif', '/') + 1) . ' karmat, delete him!......8>)


Well, the last time I attempted to use my SC superpowers at the UN, things got, ummm, well, let's just say, a bit unpleasant.

;)
12/07/2008 06:16:59 PM · #19
Here's the thing though, like it or not, we aren't allowed to say certain things. We have "free speech" but if you threaten to kill somebody, you're probably going to be in trouble. There are laws about "hate speech" (Which sounds like something out of 1984), for example. I can't quote the law, but I'm pretty sure if you busted up into a building and said, "I hate white people, lazy honkey cracker wheat thins, they should all die!" you'd get arrested. Something about "fighting words" or "words that invoke violence". (I used white people above because I'm white and not offended at being called a cracker. ; ) )
I think the blasphemy law is protect a group of people, just as racial laws are to protect groups of people. I can image people going in to churches and saying horrible things, really upsetting a lot of people, and winning in a court case because they spoke against God and not against the people of the church. The blasphemy law seems to me to promote good conduct between people. It's about decency and respect. That's why we have to wear clothes (unless your protesting in WA, apparently) and can't spit on people in planes. The thing I really respected about the atheist groups was that they had a better picture of equality than most churches did, but now a lot of these groups have turned vicious and seem as bent on exterminating peoples' faith as the radical Christian groups were on eradicating their un-faith.
Now from a legal point of view I can easily see some problems with this (that link wouldn't work for me, so I haven't read the actual law). One: what constitutes as blasphemy?
12/07/2008 06:20:01 PM · #20
Originally posted by Mick:

You're an SC so you can simply and quietly delete any comments that you don't approve of...

Generally speaking, it doesn't work that way. Unless the comment was a blatant ToS violation, Karmat would report it just like anyone else. It would be discussed and any appropriate action would be taken by someone not involved in the conversation.
12/07/2008 06:23:05 PM · #21
Originally posted by Nathanael_G:

I can image people going in to churches and saying horrible things...

You can imagine all sorts of things, but has it ever actually happened?
12/07/2008 07:41:02 PM · #22
Perhaps cogent to this discussion is the hub-bub going on in Olympia, Washington where an atheist group has placed a placard on display next to a nativity in the capitol building. While I don't think this is unreasonable, I am a bit taken aback at the aggressiveness of the atheist message, namely the last line. The placard, in it's entirety, says "At this season of the WINTER SOLSTACE may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

My point in bringing it up is to question why atheists feel they need to be so "in your face"? The nativity, while definitely Christian, is hardly threatening. It's not like you push a little button on the baby Jesus and he says, "Muhammed sucks eggs!" Why do some atheists feel so compelled to tear down at religion? Which group is proselytizing here? I think they would have advanced their case much further with a simple humanitarian message; perhaps faith in man or something. Instead they were fielding 200 phone calls an hour at the governor's office and the sign was stolen.

Message edited by author 2008-12-07 19:46:27.
12/07/2008 07:46:37 PM · #23
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Perhaps cogent to this discussion is the hub-bub going on in Olympia, Washington where an atheist group has placed a placard on display next to a nativity. While I don't think this is unreasonable, I am a bit taken aback at the aggressiveness of the atheist message, namely the last line. The placard, in it's entirety, says "At this season of the WINTER SOLSTACE may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

My point in bringing it up is to question why atheists feel they need to be so "in your face"? The nativity, while definitely Christian, is hardly threatening. It's not like you push a little button on the baby Jesus and he says, "Muhammed sucks eggs!" Why do some atheists feel so compelled to tear down at religion? Which group is proselytizing here? I think they would have advanced their case much further with a simple humanitarian message; perhaps faith in man or something. Instead they were fielding 200 phone calls an hour at the governor's office and the sign was stolen.


Fundamentalism in any belief is wrong. This just happens to be a case of atheist fundamentalism.
12/07/2008 07:51:40 PM · #24
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Fundamentalism in any belief is wrong. This just happens to be a case of atheist fundamentalism.


You are going to have to give me your definition of fundamentalism before I can disagree with that statement.
12/07/2008 07:54:11 PM · #25
After a heated discussion with some one where we disagreed, I said in a light way, " F**k it, let's move on." To which the other party took offense.

I said to him, well I could have said "Gosh," or "Screw it," or "Gee Uncle Bob, I'm all discombobulated."

So now when we disagree and would like to say "f**k it, let's move on" ... instead I say ... "Gee-Uncle-Bob-I'm-All-Discombobulated you, lets move on." Lightens the mood, usually.
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