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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 77, (reverse)
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12/24/2008 11:50:45 AM · #26
Re the "grid":

Whatever's causing it is in the camera, not the scene, and it's not any sort of PP. Why do I say that? Because I took the image to PS and did soem enhancements, enough to see two things:

1. The grid covers the entire image, left to right and top to bottom.
2. The grid is perfectly rectilinear, all intersections are perfect right angles and all cells are perfect squares.

No way this could happen if it was a fence, for example, that someone was trying to clone out.

For whatever that's worth...

As to the image itself, the relatively (considering the technicals) good score is attributable, I believe, to a certain charming whimsicality that permeates the image. It DID bring a smile to my face the instant I saw it, and I recall thinking "If this had been better captured it would be headed for a high finish. I'm thinking, basically, that a LOT of voters have seen LoTR and are "prepared" to see trees (Ents) personalized the way this image does.

I think it was well-seen, I think it stands out a bit from a lot of the other images for that. I agree witht he sentiment that it gains "value" for having been discovered instead of created. There's nothing forced about this image at all. I think it probably finished right about where it ought to have, considering the lousy technicals.

R.
12/24/2008 11:54:00 AM · #27
Originally posted by jhomrighaus:

The image in question frankly is a pretty great personification shot, it gives me the feel of a simple family snapshot as one drives away in the car after a weekend visit. The parents and child waving has an endearing quality to it that was missing in a great many of the entries in the challenge. I think it scored lower because of the technical quality of the shot, however the subject of the shot drove it up higher.


Oh, yay! We cross-posted! We're making exactly the same point.

And I firmly believe that photographic "scavenger hunts" are good. The technical aspects are all fine and well, and we have technical challenges for those even, but it's equally important tha we train the EYE; we have to learn how to see. When I see an image like this one, I think to myself "This shooter SAW something not one in a thousand people would see!"

Long live the scavengers, the ones who explore our world with unblinkered eyes and hearts!

R.
12/24/2008 12:02:47 PM · #28
That's all interesting, because my impression has been that "found shots" often fare worse in a challenge unless it is a subject that by its nature excludes created shots. It has seemed to me that crafting a studio scene allows the photographer to create the great lighting that makes a high scoring shot. My own lighting skill is still lacking in that area. Most of my crafted shots do poorly or just ok.
12/24/2008 12:13:30 PM · #29
Originally posted by yospiff:

That's all interesting, because my impression has been that "found shots" often fare worse in a challenge unless it is a subject that by its nature excludes created shots. It has seemed to me that crafting a studio scene allows the photographer to create the great lighting that makes a high scoring shot. My own lighting skill is still lacking in that area. Most of my crafted shots do poorly or just ok.

But some of us simply really enjoy found shots. :-) And yeah, they sometimes fare worse in challenges. That's OK.
12/24/2008 12:29:30 PM · #30
I have neither the time, space, and funds to set up a studio, or get lighting equipment, so "found" images seem to be my bread and butter on this site, at least for the few challenges I have entered. I have entered maybe one or two images that could be considered as a studio set up, but they were usually done on the fly, with a minimum of professional effort or know-how.

There is a certain joy to having a challenge roll around in your head for a couple of days and then finding something perfect for it in your day to day travels.
12/24/2008 12:31:44 PM · #31
I scored ALL staged shots very low (2-4). That's not what the challenge was asking for. As for this one I gave it a 6 because of its natural personification.

Message edited by author 2008-12-24 12:33:42.
12/24/2008 12:33:05 PM · #32
Originally posted by sjl2116:

I have neither the time, space, and funds to set up a studio, or get lighting equipment, so "found" images seem to be my bread and butter on this site, at least for the few challenges I have entered. I have entered maybe one or two images that could be considered as a studio set up, but they were usually done on the fly, with a minimum of professional effort or know-how.

There is a certain joy to having a challenge roll around in your head for a couple of days and then finding something perfect for it in your day to day travels.


Unfortunately for me i usually end up finding lousy stuff during the challenge week then the next day. Like for wildlife challenge only found a spider, then the next morning got 100 shots of a Merlin in my front yard from 2 feet away(AHHHHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA). some days it just doesnt pay to get out of bed.
12/24/2008 12:34:17 PM · #33
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Re the "grid":

Whatever's causing it is in the camera, not the scene, and it's not any sort of PP.

If that's the case, Robert, I would expect to see it in the other images submitted by that user, or other images from owners of that camera model.
12/24/2008 12:39:57 PM · #34
I don't know what causes this, but I've seen the effect on low-res webcam images before.
12/24/2008 12:56:10 PM · #35
Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by yospiff:

That's all interesting, because my impression has been that "found shots" often fare worse in a challenge unless it is a subject that by its nature excludes created shots. It has seemed to me that crafting a studio scene allows the photographer to create the great lighting that makes a high scoring shot. My own lighting skill is still lacking in that area. Most of my crafted shots do poorly or just ok.

But some of us simply really enjoy found shots. :-) And yeah, they sometimes fare worse in challenges. That's OK.

My "found" shots have, on average, fared much better here. It's my deliberate attempts at creativity that generally get me whacked...
12/24/2008 01:17:34 PM · #36
Originally posted by david_c:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Re the "grid":

Whatever's causing it is in the camera, not the scene, and it's not any sort of PP.

If that's the case, Robert, I would expect to see it in the other images submitted by that user, or other images from owners of that camera model.


Well, let me modify my statement: what I was after was to derail those who were suggesting these marks were a clumsy attempt to clone out a chain link fence or somesuch. They are not that. If it's not coming from sensor issues, then it may be some sort of resolution/web conversion issue in PP, I grant that. I'm no expert on this. All I meant was, it's not some clumsy clone job.

R.
12/24/2008 01:24:15 PM · #37
Definitely not the first time I've seen it. I've had no idea what to tell the folks I've seen it happen to, though. Perhaps best to tell them to post to the forum afterward and ask for suggestions or ideas?
12/24/2008 01:26:48 PM · #38
Originally posted by Melethia:

Definitely not the first time I've seen it. I've had no idea what to tell the folks I've seen it happen to, though. Perhaps best to tell them to post to the forum afterward and ask for suggestions or ideas?


Deb, I replied to your post re: the grid. See page 1

Message edited by author 2008-12-24 13:27:23.
12/24/2008 01:49:01 PM · #39
I didn't vote at all or look through most of the shots in this challenge. Regarding the grid part of the photo. I've seen a very similar boxy artifact formation in some of my shots, when I had to squeeze a very highly detailed image to 150kb in file size. It being part of the already resized image as well as it being a highly textured image was small too be seen or noticed by most, except pixel peepers, like me ;) (but mainly only when it comes to my shots). What the photog might have done there... save the image with a low quality setting, re-opened the shot, cropped it close, then resaved.

Message edited by author 2008-12-24 13:52:25.
12/24/2008 02:09:57 PM · #40


beat my "turd" of a image...........................' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/965/120/747826.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/965/120/747826.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' I like the trees it is a good find............
I too am amazed at how different the average voters opinion than mine..............
12/24/2008 02:10:50 PM · #41
Originally posted by Jac:

I scored ALL staged shots very low (2-4). That's not what the challenge was asking for. As for this one I gave it a 6 because of its natural personification.


are you reading something diffrent because I don't see that in the challenge descripition.......
12/24/2008 02:16:06 PM · #42
Originally posted by sjl2116:

There is a certain joy to having a challenge roll around in your head for a couple of days and then finding something perfect for it in your day to day travels.


Have to agree with that idea. Sometimes I will find a good subject and then keep in in mind until an appropriate challenge rolls around.
12/24/2008 02:23:26 PM · #43
Originally posted by Techo:

What the photog might have done there... save the image with a low quality setting, re-opened the shot, cropped it close, then resaved.


I think you might be onto something there. I can see a compression algorithm doing something like that with multiple saves.
12/24/2008 02:35:39 PM · #44
Originally posted by bobnospum:

...Art is subjective....


I can't remember how many times I've tried to show where this statement leads, the short way. Here's a long way, if anyone has an interest.
12/24/2008 02:57:13 PM · #45
Originally posted by SteveJ:

Originally posted by Melethia:

Definitely not the first time I've seen it. I've had no idea what to tell the folks I've seen it happen to, though. Perhaps best to tell them to post to the forum afterward and ask for suggestions or ideas?


Deb, I replied to your post re: the grid. See page 1

Missed that somehow. I suspect that could be part of the problem, but I also suspect the saving issue as well. Thanks!
12/24/2008 03:03:40 PM · #46
Originally posted by electrolost:

Originally posted by Jac:

I scored ALL staged shots very low (2-4). That's not what the challenge was asking for. As for this one I gave it a 6 because of its natural personification.


are you reading something diffrent because I don't see that in the challenge descripition.......


I'm having a tough time understanding Jac's thought process on this as well, but personal interpretation of challenges is part and parcel of the DPC experience. So c'est la vie.
12/24/2008 03:18:06 PM · #47
I don't think it's good to call out a specific photo, but I have to agree with the OP on this one. I wonder if so many voters saw this as a bottom-ten effort that they voted generously. Then those 9s and 10s -- are they the result of backlash voting? I mean, there are so many ongoing complaints about technical excellence, as if a well-made photo is automatically soulless, I think some voters must feel they are fighting the good fight when they reward a photo like this one.

I agree it's a good subject for the challenge and said so in my comment.
12/24/2008 03:31:05 PM · #48
Originally posted by citymars:

I don't think it's good to call out a specific photo, but I have to agree with the OP on this one. I wonder if so many voters saw this as a bottom-ten effort that they voted generously. Then those 9s and 10s -- are they the result of backlash voting? I mean, there are so many ongoing complaints about technical excellence, as if a well-made photo is automatically soulless, I think some voters must feel they are fighting the good fight when they reward a photo like this one.

I agree it's a good subject for the challenge and said so in my comment.


People ought to take a look at the vote distribution on this one; it's an absolutely symmetrical bell curve, one of the purest I have seen.

45 of 221 votes were "outliers": 1=4,2=6,3=12,8=14,9=5,10=4
The remaining 176 votes were in the center of the scale: 4=44, 5=56, 6=44, 7=32

Essentially, the outliers canceled each other out precisely. And I agree with that: for all its technical flaws, in this challenge the image no more "deserved" a 1 or a 2 than it did a 9 or a 10. That some people are so focused on technicals as to award these low scores is to be expected, just as it's to be expected that some people are so focused on concept that they award the image very high scores. No mystery there, no need for "theories".

And there, right in the middle of the range, we see significant numbers of voters thinking the image is better-than-average, presumably because they admire the "concept", which is endearingly well-seen, and a slightly larger group thinking the image is a bit worse-than-average presumably because, although they recognize the concept they think it can't overcome the flawed execution.

And bingo, the image ends up just above the middle of the pack with a 5.39 average in a challenge where the scoring was relatively low. It all seems perfectly reasonable to me :-)

R.
12/24/2008 04:11:16 PM · #49
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

And bingo, the image ends up just above the middle of the pack with a 5.39 average in a challenge where the scoring was relatively low. It all seems perfectly reasonable to me :-)

You any relation to Spock?

Seems logical......8>)
12/24/2008 04:23:19 PM · #50
Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by ambaker:

You don't see the two guys waving?


There's three. Look at the left side, its a "child".


Ok after a full morning, I see three and the grid... Yay for me.... ;-)

The "child" was easy. I was looking too hard for the grid, but once you find the first piece, wow! Hopefully it is processing related. If my camera did that to me, I'd be hunting a new one pretty quick.
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