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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> Advice on another Photographer, ASAPlease
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04/04/2009 02:35:07 PM · #1
I have set up a shoot this Sunday.

Flying in for this shoot we have, 2 models from Austin TX and 1 from Maryland. 1 of the models in based in Tucson. They have all done the international circuit in Japan, Europe, US. We have an amazing 2 MUA and hair stylists and 2 personal assistants. There will be 3 photographers.

The shoot is going to be long, about 6-9 hours. With about 10-20 outfit changes per person.

All of this is through my friends and people I know and they are NOT asking to be paid as they are friends.

Now here is the bit that I want advice for.

1 of the models invited another photographer, who is really rather good, better than myself at least.

Now as payment to all these people I said that I would give them 10 edited shots for working 6-9 hours for Free.

The other two photographers said that they would do the same.

The 4th photographer, stated that he would give out 3 or less photos to the models.

This is what he wrote back to me: I can understand a lot what he said, and maybe I am some dumb blonde hick with a camera but I want to uninvite him.

~~~~~~~

I charge for 10 images. My page defines my terms clearly. Ten images are not needed for model portfolio. The better models that I have worked with agree, you only need one shot per outfit per location. The rest is just for one's personal use, and personal use does not benefit one's profession. I was invited by David who I hope has read my page. I am sure whatever I was to deliver will be of great value to the models' portfolio as is the general feedback I receive. Da Vinci never handed his brush to Mona Lisa. But we can all dream.

~~~~~~~

So 4 models 2 MUA and 2 Hairstylist, free food and drink, free outfits and lights. And he is giving 'maybe' 3 shots.

Maybe this is how it is done and I am stupid.

But I would like to know how I can write back to him and say 'piss off you ungratefull head up your own think you are all that arsehole" without it sounding like that.

Or am I Wrong

04/04/2009 02:44:08 PM · #2
Why wouldn't you want it to sound like that?

Better have a word with - er - David ...

In my pig-headed opinion, anyone who compares themselves to DaVinci has it coming.
04/04/2009 02:46:54 PM · #3
I talked to David about it and he wants me to cancel him too. Just not sure how to tell him "He aint all that"
04/04/2009 02:47:34 PM · #4
He sounds like a pompous ass, and your instinct to un-invite him I am sure is a good one. I would voice this opinion to David and let him deal with him.
04/04/2009 02:58:38 PM · #5
Let him come. If he thinks he's a Digital DaVinci, he might provide a comic relief (unless, of course, he is). At least everyone else might have fun mocking him, drawing you all closer together.
04/04/2009 03:03:00 PM · #6
DO you think this sounds somewhat ok? or should it be more refined?

Yes, I am so sorry but this shoot is not right for you then.

We have flown in models from across America, we have 2 of the top MUA's and 2 top hairstylist from Arizona driving in. One photographer flying in from Canada. We have a videographer taping this and now a lighting expert coming in from California.

3 shots per model will not cut it.

But good luck in the future.
04/04/2009 03:24:16 PM · #7
His analogy doesn't make any sense. Da Vinci handing his brush to Mona Lisa would equate to the photographer handing their camera to the model, not the produced works.
04/04/2009 03:32:58 PM · #8
Originally posted by JulietNN:

DO you think this sounds somewhat ok? or should it be more refined?

Yes, I am so sorry but this shoot is not right for you then.

We have flown in models from across America, we have 2 of the top MUA's and 2 top hairstylist from Arizona driving in. One photographer flying in from Canada. We have a videographer taping this and now a lighting expert coming in from California.

3 shots per model will not cut it.

But good luck in the future.


Entirely too nice. Try this reedit.

Message edited by author 2009-04-04 15:37:26.
04/04/2009 03:39:27 PM · #9
I agree with the message above mine!

This narcacistic ass needs knocked down a few pegs tell him off!
04/04/2009 04:02:19 PM · #10
Alternate wording... edit it freely or toss it completely :-)

Yes, I understand your position, and I am so sorry but clearly this shoot is not going to work out.

We have flown in models from across America, we have 2 of the top MUA's and 2 top hairstylist from Arizona driving in. One photographer flying in from Canada. We have a videographer taping this and now a lighting expert coming in from California. All of their participation was predicated upon the ten shots in lieu of payment arrangement. These promises were made to them before you were invited, and we cannot go back on our word.

We appreciate your willingness to participate, but as we are committed to ten shots per model, we will need to limit this event to photographers who can and will provide them. Perhaps another event in the future will work out, but in any case we wish you the best.



Alternately, you could suggest that YOU charge a FEE for photographers who won't deliver ten prints, and will withhold model releases until ten images are delivered. He is still free to attend for a fee of 1000 dollars. But it seems easier to just politely disinvite Davinci, even if less fun than pinging him.

You might want to mention that You, not David, are the organizer of the event.

Message edited by author 2009-04-04 16:04:35.
04/04/2009 04:42:16 PM · #11
There is no reason to apologize--you have not done anything wrong. He is the one who is trying to change the rules for the shoot.

I would simply state, that if he wishes to agree to the procedures set forth, by you, for the shoot, he is welcome to come. If he's not willing to play by the rules, then you'll understand his absence.

04/04/2009 04:45:42 PM · #12
Nicely put, Chromeydome.
04/04/2009 04:56:07 PM · #13
You set up the shoot.

You decide who does what and when. You are the boss and he does what you tell him, or you kick him off the shoot. If he is the perfect professional he claims to be, then he will be aware that he has to comply with your decisions, whether he likes it or not!

Good Luck with the shoot, and I hope you take the pompous prat down a peg or two!! Make him take a perfect shot of each model, as he claims he can do:))
04/04/2009 05:05:14 PM · #14
(Withdrawn for tastelessness).

Message edited by author 2009-04-04 17:17:21.
04/04/2009 05:05:25 PM · #15
For what it's worth, and to stay professional, a simple "thanks but no thanks" (as suggested by ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' alans_world is the best approach. It has been my experience that those who need to be taken down a notch or two never get the message. In addition, as your own career grows, you never know who you will shooting with/for in the future. The need to give him a piece of your mind is just your ego talking and could bite you in the butt down the road.
04/04/2009 05:08:01 PM · #16
Wisely put, tanguera. Mind you, if you could find someone to phrase the polite refusal in classical Italian...
04/04/2009 05:12:27 PM · #17
Originally posted by raish:

Wisely put, tanguera. Mind you, if you could find someone to phrase the polite refusal in classical Italian...


or, you could reverse it so it could only be read in a mirror (as DaVinci did) :-)
04/04/2009 05:20:31 PM · #18
I would go with bringing him up to speed.

Explain to him that he was not invited as part of the original setup; he can choose to abide the ground rules or not attend.

Period.
04/04/2009 05:28:52 PM · #19
I'd go with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' chromeydome's first thoughts.

Be professional, and let him know if he doesn't want to play, he can stay home. No hard feelings...

You never know when you might be brought up in a conversation, where he happens to be. On a professional level, it is not wise to make enemies when you don't have to. Somewhat less personally satisfying, at times, but gives him less reason to trash you to someone else later.
04/04/2009 06:05:51 PM · #20
He sounds like a pain in the neck, and it won't end there, even if he agrees to give 10 images. The guy has serious tickets on himself, and seems to consider himself the only professional in the group - that will bring huge trouble when you're actually shooting, as he may well hijack the sessions and strut around trying to play queen bee. I'd get rid of him before its too late. Besides, if he's Da Vinci, why does he need to do a free shoot anyway, surely he's booked up 6 months in advance?
04/04/2009 06:10:19 PM · #21
lets see his website...

cuz his grammer ain't all there. my guess based on that is - his phota's ain't ether...

oh and i might invite him - and if he's an ass - serve him the potato salad thats been sitting around in the sun all afternoon. deny the pork !

:)



Message edited by author 2009-04-04 18:12:43.
04/04/2009 06:14:45 PM · #22
Since the models are being "paid" in photos, I would give them the choice. If the models don't feel he's being fair with what he's offering them for their work, then they should be able to say they don't want to work with him.
04/04/2009 06:20:19 PM · #23
the problem with that is the models might not know who he is, and therefore agree to the situation - they are getting paid ( so to speak ) by the other photogs as well...

so then you have a potential pompous ass shoving his way around the shoot - making it difficult for the others to work. ie; model direction - outfit changes... etc.


04/04/2009 06:23:12 PM · #24
THank you all

I wanted my peers opinion as I was on shaky grounds there and really didn't want to push him into an empty pool at the shoot.

Chrom, nicely put, I have sent off a letter stating pretty much what you stated as well as this is how we are paying the models.

Thank you so much for all your words.
04/06/2009 09:45:31 AM · #25
I would have asked the models. I mean in reality, 30 images (3 photogs x 10 each) is way more than they would ever need from 1 shoot anyway.

Also, if you feel that this guy is a better photog than you, I would have let him stick around just to leech off technique and see his setups and such.

Plus, in the long run its more beneficial for everyone. You get to see his workflow and how he interacts with the models and lighting, the models get 3 more images to choose from, and the mua and stylist get potentially a noteworthy name in thier books as someone they have worked with.

His attitude may suck a little, but its also email, and tone doesn't carry well via text.

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