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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Why do members w/o cameras vote lower?
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05/05/2004 10:41:02 PM · #1
I was browsing through the results of Proportion and I gradually noticed a pattern of lower voting by people without cameras. I wonder why that is? Could it be psychological? Camera envy? Are they thinking, "If I had a camera I could do so much better", and vote accordingly. Even with the winning photos this is the case. Weird.
05/05/2004 10:53:06 PM · #2
I noticed that as well. Maybe its because they don't realize how difficult it is to produce high quality digital camera photos.
Begs the question: Why does a person with no camera join a photo challenge site?
05/05/2004 10:53:45 PM · #3
I think that they don't keep the challenge theme in mind when they vote.

Most pictures that do good with the no camera people do average or bad with the people with cameras.
05/05/2004 11:11:45 PM · #4
Why would someone without a camera join a photo site? Because someone asked them to vote. I'm sure some of the members without cameras (though not all) are just friends or family trying to influence a score as a favor. In some challenges, there appears to be only one or two non-camera voters because all those scores are whole or half-numbers. With only a handful of people without cameras, it only takes one or two low votes to generate a low average. Fortunately, such a small group has little impact on the overall result.
05/05/2004 11:17:12 PM · #5
Originally posted by ElGordo:

I noticed that as well. Maybe its because they don't realize how difficult it is to produce high quality digital camera photos.


It is really difficult when you are working with an outdated camera. I'm still using the Nikon Coolpix 700 I oh-so-carefully chose after several weeks, back in 1998. I got it as cheap as possible on-line and spent about $500. I've been keeping the battery compartment shut with packing tape for about 5 1/2 of the 6 years I've owned it. Occasionally I have to bang it against my hand because the focus goes wonky. After really spending time on this site, I've got camera envy. It is sad to compare the Megapixels of my Coolpix to comparitively priced cameras today. I just helped my Dad pick a camera out for my mom (a total hack) for her birthday and I was a bit jealous. He bought her Fuji Finepix 3+ Megapixel model with lots of fun manual features (don't recall the number) for $300. So now I know what I want for my birthday in August.

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BTW, I did discover that my camera does take a nice TIFF image in HI mode which I've never used in the years I've owned the camera. It uses a lot of memory and battery power.

05/05/2004 11:31:47 PM · #6


It is really difficult when you are working with an outdated camera. texttext

My cameras are also a bit dated, mostly purchased used online. My favorite (Kodak/Nikon DCS200) is so old it doesn't even have EXIF data, so I can't use it for DPC.
When I learn to make really good photos perhaps I will update!
05/05/2004 11:33:28 PM · #7
maybe it could be that they with out cameras, are not shooting photos. therefore, that they may not understand the technical aspects and the degree of using a camera to capture a perfect shot to the best of our abilities. They may just view it as a picture and just as a pictures. Kinda like going through a mag and look at the pictures. Have anyone just browsed through a mag and just look a pictures. Ok, now after using a camera for some time and learning how to use it and it functions, any camera will do. How many time have you caught your self looking at the DOF, the horizon lines, color, cropping, printing quality, the layout and comp. The focal point. What is the photo saying and how did the photographer get that idea to relay a message. Pretty fair amount of detailed, Right, right....Before I ever picked up camera, I use to look at pictures as just pictures. Now as PHOTOS!! See?

Message edited by author 2004-05-05 23:39:39.
05/06/2004 12:21:53 AM · #8
In order to convince myself not to be annoyed with them, I had to use this philosophy: "They probably still use film and don't have a digital camera yet."

Not that makes it any better. The same aspects still apply with digital as with film, so really, that's no excuse. It's easier in many aspects, but harder in some and well...just the same in others, I'd assume.

Also, since they 'don't have a camera,' they haven't been able to participate here and learn about photography like we all have. I know when I first started, if I didn't like the picture, no matter how well it was put together and regardless of the challenge, it went down. They also probably don't spend as much time here dealing with the concept of the weekly challenge and don't think about it all week like those of us trying to get the perfect photo for it. Therefore, they don't come into the voting with it as their highest priority.

*shrugs* It still annoys me to see their average vote so low, but oh well, nothing I can do about it. -_-
05/06/2004 02:25:35 AM · #9
Originally posted by melismatica:

I was browsing through the results of Proportion and I gradually noticed a pattern of lower voting by people without cameras. I wonder why that is? Could it be psychological? Camera envy? Are they thinking, "If I had a camera I could do so much better", and vote accordingly. Even with the winning photos this is the case. Weird.


In a similar discussion some time ago, it was found that there was only one person without camera voting. I did not check this time, but I think one should be careful not to draw general conclusions from the averages shown.
05/06/2004 02:47:01 AM · #10
There is a lot of talk with each challenge about how subtlety never does well. This I feel is because the new people (like me!) do not know what to look for in a photo as well as the more experienced photographers do. Thus, what the 'pros' see as subtly obvious the less experienced miss completely. Remember there are relatively few pros on the site compared the plentitude of those of us still learning. You want us to learn to appreciate the more subtle aspects of photography, show us how. The best way to do that is to comment, although it is not just the pros that have valuable comments; since we are all in different stages of growth, we can always help each other.

Sorry, seems like I started to rant...now, where was I.

Oh, yes.

Think of the individual(s) without a camera that is voting, they have even less experience (say none) to draw on to understand the photo. If they like the photo, they like it; but they may not know what it is about it they like. I do not know what to do about it, or if anything should be done. After all, it is an indication of how well the photo communicates to the common man (or woman). It probably is not a very good indication, since there are so few of them, but it is an indication, none the less.

David
05/06/2004 08:06:44 AM · #11
Folks, there are some things to remember here.

First of all, like someone mentioned, the non-camera members/users that vote are very low in number. Usually 2 or three, at most. If their averge is slightly less than than the overall average it is not that big a deal. A lot of times you can tell it is only one voter because the average is something like 5.000.

Secondly, for a lot of my pictures (and some of them that did very well), it was the non-camera voter that saw the true genius in the shot <grin> meaning that their average was higher.

Third, there are a lot of people out there that like photography that don't have a camera. You shouldn't have to have a certain piece of equipment to enjoy a hobby. That would mean that all the NASCAR fans own a race car, and all Monday Night Football fans are pros. My golf game stinks, yet I can tell when someone is a good golfer by their swing, etc.

Finally, I think the non-camera votes are important, at least to me, because that way I can gauge how well the non-photography world likes a particular picture. Like has been said on here many times, photographers don't enjoy photography just for the sake of a good picture. :-)
05/06/2004 08:14:15 AM · #12
Originally posted by karmat:


Finally, I think the non-camera votes are important, at least to me, because that way I can gauge how well the non-photography world likes a particular picture. Like has been said on here many times, photographers don't enjoy photography just for the sake of a good picture. :-)


Would it not be better to have votes from those who have never entered a challenge? I think that would be more helpful, as there only ever seems to be 1 or 2 people without cameras
05/06/2004 08:25:22 AM · #13
Maybe they are jealous?!
05/06/2004 11:00:15 AM · #14
I think those are clones of some users made to vote 1,2,3 to all pics, and give them only a 10. Especially in open challenges, I doubt someone would be as stupid to pay extra 25$ for that in member ones. Anyways thats not only stupid and useless, I hear DPC has a system that detects that and don't count those votes. That's why you get the score bumps in the last minutes of the challenge. Theyr votes remain in the stats, but they don't get counted in the final score. Atleast something like that I understood from other forum threads on this issue.
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