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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Important Changes to the Basic Editing rules
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02/19/2010 01:19:57 AM · #1
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

As long as I've been here, which is more than 5 years now, there's been a quest to create a simple, perfect set of rules, and nobody's even come close.


Similar quests have been in progress for clubs, societies, cities, and countries for thousands of years, and nobody has ever managed to take all discretion out of the system--at least not without getting Draconian very quickly.

Flexibility cuts both ways, and that's just gonna have to be the way it is.
02/19/2010 01:13:36 AM · #2
Originally posted by coryboehne:

This whole thread brought up a very good question in my mind:

...That's really unfortunate, because sometimes I'm questioning whether I should cry foul on an image, but just pass on thinking someone else will do it...


You don't need to worry about this, if you feel strongly enough about it to call foul, there's no harm in doing so. If there's no basis for claiming the foul, this will be clear to SC when they receive the report from you and check the image, and there's no harm done.

The library of examples is a lost cause because the rules are in a state of flux. How'd you like to be the one responsible for keeping the library up-to-date as the rules change? Plenty of validated images are no longer legal, and plenty of DQ'd images would be allowed under current rules. Besides which, legality is, in many cases, a matter of interpretation, according to SC themselves. That's hard for some DPCers to stomach, but it's still a fact. As long as I've been here, which is more than 5 years now, there's been a quest to create a simple, perfect set of rules, and nobody's even come close.

R.

Message edited by author 2010-02-19 01:13:50.
02/18/2010 10:50:25 PM · #3
Originally posted by colorcarnival:

Originally posted by CJinCA:

Thanks from me also ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', '/') + 1) . ' GeneralE. I like Topaz Detail as I don't have CS4 so would like to be able to use it. I guess I won't be able to procrastinate on my entries any more. ;-)


I use Topaz Detail on the background layer. So I don't create any new layers. It's worked for me so far and I think it's legal :)

Some plug-ins create their own layers (sometimes invisibly to the user), which is why we constantly have to look at how they actually work in order to determine their legality under our rules. I don't have/use any of the Topaz software, so I can't tell you myself whether they do anything like that, which is why I have to recommend checking it out first before using on a submission. It is quite likely that it can be used legally, but I'm just not in a position myself to say so for sure.
02/18/2010 10:47:45 PM · #4
Originally posted by colorcarnival:

Originally posted by CJinCA:

Thanks from me also ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', '/') + 1) . ' GeneralE. I like Topaz Detail as I don't have CS4 so would like to be able to use it. I guess I won't be able to procrastinate on my entries any more. ;-)


I use Topaz Detail on the background layer. So I don't create any new layers. It's worked for me so far and I think it's legal :)


Thanks for the info Michelle. The editing Detail applies to the images sure looks like it would be legal to me too. I'll try it!
02/18/2010 10:21:02 PM · #5
Originally posted by CJinCA:

Thanks from me also ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', '/') + 1) . ' GeneralE. I like Topaz Detail as I don't have CS4 so would like to be able to use it. I guess I won't be able to procrastinate on my entries any more. ;-)


I use Topaz Detail on the background layer. So I don't create any new layers. It's worked for me so far and I think it's legal :)
02/18/2010 10:12:06 PM · #6
Thanks from me also ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', '/') + 1) . ' GeneralE. I like Topaz Detail as I don't have CS4 so would like to be able to use it. I guess I won't be able to procrastinate on my entries any more. ;-)
02/18/2010 10:01:57 PM · #7
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Some of the Topaz plug-ins are currently under discussion; there's no final decision(s) yet. If it uses layers, moves pixels around, or creates features/shapes/detail where there wasn't any in the original, it's probably illegal in Basic (and possibly in Advanced as well).

Your best option currently is to submit a ticket to the SC (Help > Contact Us menu) with your editing details and before/after versions of the image, and at least get an informal opinion as to the legality of the editing. Try to do this at least a day or two before the challenge submission deadline so there will be time for a few people to look at it.

Sorry we can't give you a more definitive answer at this time.


Thanks ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/1031.gif', '/') + 1) . ' GeneralE - that clears it up - I was looking at using Topaz Adjust 3 with Portrait Drama. I'm pretty sure I can get there adjusting the curves, levels, contrast, etc ... I was just lazy when I asked. Thanks for the prompt info.
02/18/2010 09:53:06 PM · #8
Some of the Topaz plug-ins are currently under discussion; there's no final decision(s) yet. If it uses layers, moves pixels around, or creates features/shapes/detail where there wasn't any in the original, it's probably illegal in Basic (and possibly in Advanced as well).

Your best option currently is to submit a ticket to the SC (Help > Contact Us menu) with your editing details and before/after versions of the image, and at least get an informal opinion as to the legality of the editing. Try to do this at least a day or two before the challenge submission deadline so there will be time for a few people to look at it.

Sorry we can't give you a more definitive answer at this time.
02/18/2010 09:39:58 PM · #9
Originally posted by pwarmuz:

Triple checking ... one of those days ... TOPAZ ADJUST 3 is still legal in basic editing? Correct?


I think so, but is Topaz Detail legal in basic? It seems to be a more subtle Topaz application.
02/18/2010 09:06:50 PM · #10
Triple checking ... one of those days ... TOPAZ ADJUST 3 is still legal in basic editing? Correct?
02/15/2010 08:40:47 AM · #11
Okay, thanks a lot for all the feedback. Now it's crystal clear. Final verdict:

Creating multiple layers with different exposures from one capture: Not allowed.
Creating an HDR-like image and tone mapping with Photomatix on the solitary layer of a single capture: Allowed.

So basically you can't add any layers in basic. I understood clearly that no layer masks were allowed, but because that was mentioned specifically I thought you could at least add a universal overlay or multiplier layer, but apparently not. So all color adjustments, sharpening, etc., must take place on the background layer, and they must affect the entire image. Well that's basic enough.
02/15/2010 07:04:50 AM · #12
Originally posted by h2:

Originally posted by MichaelC:

Originally posted by bohemka:

Thanks a lot. I thought I could give the photo a bit more pop if I could save the single capture as +3, save it again as - 3, and blend the three, but that's obviously not allowed. I'll check the software threads for Topaz equivalents. Thanks again.


This is allowed.

You can process as many versions of the one capture as you like...as long as it is one capture.


This is NOT allowed in basic (as I understand your idea), ypu would have to use more than one layer containing pixel data. Ask SC to be sure.


I have asked officials about this, was told no, not legal. But, you can make a single image hdr using photomatix.

02/15/2010 07:04:31 AM · #13
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Updated: 02/15/10 07:03 am
02/15/2010 07:00:10 AM · #14
Originally posted by MichaelC:

Originally posted by bohemka:

Thanks a lot. I thought I could give the photo a bit more pop if I could save the single capture as +3, save it again as - 3, and blend the three, but that's obviously not allowed. I'll check the software threads for Topaz equivalents. Thanks again.


This is allowed.

You can process as many versions of the one capture as you like...as long as it is one capture.


This is NOT allowed in basic (as I understand your idea), ypu would have to use more than one layer containing pixel data. Ask SC to be sure.
02/15/2010 06:42:25 AM · #15
Thanks, MichaelC. All clear.
02/15/2010 06:35:16 AM · #16
Originally posted by bohemka:

Thanks a lot. I thought I could give the photo a bit more pop if I could save the single capture as +3, save it again as - 3, and blend the three, but that's obviously not allowed. I'll check the software threads for Topaz equivalents. Thanks again.


This is allowed.

You can process as many versions of the one capture as you like...as long as it is one capture.
02/15/2010 06:11:20 AM · #17
Thanks a lot. I thought I could give the photo a bit more pop if I could save the single capture as +3, save it again as - 3, and blend the three, but that's obviously not allowed. I'll check the software threads for Topaz equivalents. Thanks again.
02/15/2010 06:10:12 AM · #18
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by bohemka:

Photomatix is allowed, but can you use it to create a mild HDR effect as long as it is used on one capture?

I've emboldened the operative word......

You get to figure out the limits of mild......8>)


Good one Jeb :)

Scott, the difference between HDR and HD-AARGHH is very subtle :-P
02/15/2010 06:08:16 AM · #19
Originally posted by bohemka:

Photomatix is allowed, but can you use it to create a mild HDR effect as long as it is used on one capture?

I've emboldened the operative word......

You get to figure out the limits of mild......8>)
02/15/2010 05:33:30 AM · #20
Originally posted by bohemka:

I'm a bit thick, so I'd love it if someone could just answer this simple, two-part question for me. I've been through this whole thread and haven't figured this out definitively:

For Basic Editing:
1- Perspective alterations are out, correct? ("You may not: distort or stretch your image in any way.")
2 - Photomatix is allowed, but can you use it to create a mild HDR effect as long as it is used on one capture? Can that one capture be altered into multiple exposures and blended?

Bonus round question: Is there a Topaz-like program for Flintstone-era Macs?

These are basic, I know, but I'm basic. Thanks a lot.

Edit: I suppose using the word "effect" answers my own question. I just wanted to be sure. Thanks.


Hi Scott,

1 - In basic you cannot do lens corrections (like perspective, pincushion, etc). In advanced you're allowed to do it, but not to a point were it becomes a feature, it's just for corrections.
2 - You can tonemap a photo in Photomatix, etc, as long as it is one single exposure. Unless stated otherwise, only one exposure is allowed.

Bonus question: any Mac guru's out there??

02/15/2010 05:26:25 AM · #21
I'm a bit thick, so I'd love it if someone could just answer this simple, two-part question for me. I've been through this whole thread and haven't figured this out definitively:

For Basic Editing:
1- Perspective alterations are out, correct? ("You may not: distort or stretch your image in any way.")
2 - Photomatix is allowed, but can you use it to create a mild HDR effect as long as it is used on one capture? Can that one capture be altered into multiple exposures and blended?

Bonus round question: Is there a Topaz-like program for Flintstone-era Macs?

These are basic, I know, but I'm basic. Thanks a lot.

Edit: I suppose using the word "effect" answers my own question. I just wanted to be sure. Thanks.

Message edited by author 2010-02-15 05:27:27.
01/19/2010 11:10:07 PM · #22
The thing is, is that there is no hard and fast rule as to what is allowed and what is not. It's all in how they are applied. If you get too heavyhanded with something that is otherwise legal you run the risk of a DQ. Every image and every application is different.
01/19/2010 10:58:51 PM · #23
This whole thread brought up a very good question in my mind:

Why is there no "tutorial" on what is and is not acceptable as far as this goes.. I would like to see a tutorial or at least an examples page of what is and is not legal, that would be really nice to refer to, especially in instances like this where when I see a photo that I'm voting on, I have no visual baseline to judge them on. That's really unfortunate, because sometimes I'm questioning whether I should cry foul on an image, but just pass on thinking someone else will do it (one of the great social diseases if you ask me..), and I would like to see something that was specifically dedicated to ( do/do not ) type information, and was presented in a strongly visual way (remember some DPC'ers aren't as good with English as their native languages.)..

Probably stop quite a few needless arguments too...

Just my -$.02 :)
01/19/2010 09:40:45 PM · #24
Has anybody used Nik Color Effex yet? Validated in basic?
09/15/2009 03:30:52 PM · #25
Thanks, Peter.
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