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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Important Changes to the Basic Editing rules
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Showing posts 76 - 100 of 206, (reverse)
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07/15/2009 09:03:44 PM · #76
Originally posted by sfalice:

since only Topaz Adjust is specifically eliminated, how about Topaz: "Clean" and "Simplify" and "deNoise"?

You just said only Topaz Adjust was specifically eliminated. Topaz DeNoise isn't Topaz Adjust, so you answered your own question.

Originally posted by bassbone:

Too many unanswered questions about what programs might and might not be allowed.

???!?!?!?!?! Read the original post (or the rules). Other than Topaz Adjust, ALL programs are allowed and subject to the same restrictions as Photoshop: spot editing, selections (including "control points"), brushes and layers containing data are forbidden.
07/15/2009 09:21:57 PM · #77
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by sfalice:

since only Topaz Adjust is specifically eliminated, how about Topaz: "Clean" and "Simplify" and "deNoise"?

You just said only Topaz Adjust was specifically eliminated. Topaz DeNoise isn't Topaz Adjust, so you answered your own question.

Originally posted by bassbone:

Too many unanswered questions about what programs might and might not be allowed.

???!?!?!?!?! Read the original post (or the rules). Other than Topaz Adjust, ALL programs are allowed and subject to the same restrictions as Photoshop: spot editing, selections (including "control points"), brushes and layers containing data are forbidden.


Thank you, Shannon. "Topaz" and "Topaz Adjust" seemed to have been used interchangeably in this thread. So I am glad to have the clarification for DeNoise, Simplify and Clean.
07/15/2009 09:25:05 PM · #78
Originally posted by sfalice:

Thank you, Shannon. "Topaz" and "Topaz Adjust" seemed to have been used interchangeably in this thread. So I am glad to have the clarification for DeNoise, Simplify and Clean.


Wow, Simplify and Clean do not appear to me to be allowed in Basic...is this the case? I am stunned...
07/15/2009 09:29:59 PM · #79
FYI: we hear your concerns about Topaz Adjust and are discussing it.

for the time being, please DO NOT use Topaz Adjust for Basic Editing challenges. there aren't even any Basic challenges open right now, so we have at least a week to figure it out.

we will have an update for you in the next few days.

Message edited by author 2009-07-15 21:32:22.
07/15/2009 09:36:10 PM · #80
Originally posted by basssman7:

My suggestion would be that we have our present "advanced" ruleset, then for basic we should allow all those things discussed, including topaz...but allow no selections to be made and no layer modes, simply layer opacity may be changed. However out of the two weekly open challenges have one as basic and one under minimal...and make minimal like the "old" basic? So those that do not agree with the use of filter effects can chose to continue as it was, but those that like them can use them in the "new" basic as long as there are no selections or layer modes used?


Actually this, or something similar, would be quite nice. A lot of options but still limits.
07/15/2009 09:37:10 PM · #81
Originally posted by stupidcat:

Wow, Simplify and Clean do not appear to me to be allowed in Basic...is this the case? I am stunned...

Why is this confusing? "You may: use filters or stand-alone utilities designed to preserve image integrity (such as Neat Image, Unsharp Mask, Dust & Scratches, and color correction tools)." Unless your utility employs spot editing (brushes, control points, selections...) or uses data layers, it's fine.
07/15/2009 09:42:38 PM · #82
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by stupidcat:

Wow, Simplify and Clean do not appear to me to be allowed in Basic...is this the case? I am stunned...

Why is this confusing? "You may: use filters or stand-alone utilities designed to preserve image integrity (such as Neat Image, Unsharp Mask, Dust & Scratches, and color correction tools)." Unless your utility employs spot editing (brushes, control points, selections...) or uses data layers, it's fine.


Well, I guess I would have considered Clean and Simplify "effects filters"...I don't know...I am probably interpreting it wrong...
07/15/2009 10:00:22 PM · #83
Originally posted by stupidcat:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by stupidcat:

Wow, Simplify and Clean do not appear to me to be allowed in Basic...is this the case? I am stunned...

Why is this confusing? "You may: use filters or stand-alone utilities designed to preserve image integrity (such as Neat Image, Unsharp Mask, Dust & Scratches, and color correction tools)." Unless your utility employs spot editing (brushes, control points, selections...) or uses data layers, it's fine.


Well, I guess I would have considered Clean and Simplify "effects filters"...I don't know...I am probably interpreting it wrong...


I think you are interpreting "effects filters" correctly. Topaz Clean and Topaz Simplify can take an image to the "extreme" the same way as Topaz Adjust can.

Why the need to allow any of these filters - Topaz and the other ones that have been mentioned to now be legal - be used in Basic?
07/15/2009 10:05:49 PM · #84
Originally posted by colorcarnival:

I think you are interpreting "effects filters" correctly. Topaz Clean and Topaz Simplify can take an image to the "extreme" the same way as Topaz Adjust can.

So can USM, Curves, Levels, Neat Image, or practically any other tool.
07/15/2009 10:13:28 PM · #85
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

I think you are interpreting "effects filters" correctly. Topaz Clean and Topaz Simplify can take an image to the "extreme" the same way as Topaz Adjust can.

So can USM, Curves, Levels, Neat Image, or practically any other tool.


Then why name Topaz Adjust at all? I don't understand. This is very confusing.
07/15/2009 10:14:06 PM · #86
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

I think you are interpreting "effects filters" correctly. Topaz Clean and Topaz Simplify can take an image to the "extreme" the same way as Topaz Adjust can.

So can USM, Curves, Levels, Neat Image, or practically any other tool.


lol then ban it all! That should make for interesting photos. :) I know mine would look pretty sucky.
07/15/2009 10:15:17 PM · #87
Originally posted by stupidcat:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

I think you are interpreting "effects filters" correctly. Topaz Clean and Topaz Simplify can take an image to the "extreme" the same way as Topaz Adjust can.

So can USM, Curves, Levels, Neat Image, or practically any other tool.


Then why name Topaz Adjust at all? I don't understand. This is very confusing.


It is confusing about why Topaz has been singled out. Should be interesting to see what the outcome of this is.
07/15/2009 10:37:47 PM · #88
Originally posted by colorcarnival:


Why the need to allow any of these filters - Topaz and the other ones that have been mentioned to now be legal - be used in Basic?


There's a couple of reasons. One reason is that the software is proliferating faster than SC can evaluate and rule on it, basically. It's like a death spiral, sort of, no end to it. Everything is getting more and more sophisticated. Also, basic editing was already dealing with an anomaly because it was not allowing Topaz, Photomatix, or Lucis Arts and yet WAS allowing Shadow/Highlight, which is Photoshop's version of the same family of things. Of course, there's STILL an anomaly if they single out Topaz for banning and not the others, but...

R.
07/15/2009 11:17:07 PM · #89
Maybe the rules should be written like this to make things clearer. Of course the rules can be adjusted to fit DPC.
07/15/2009 11:28:12 PM · #90
This was DQ'd for slight use of LucisArts, so now this entry would be legal?
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1017/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_779338.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1017/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_779338.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
07/15/2009 11:32:33 PM · #91
Originally posted by caba:

This was DQ'd for slight use of LucisArts, so now this entry would be legal?
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1017/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_779338.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1017/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_779338.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Read the original post!
Originally posted by muckpond:

Finally, please note that these changes invalidate our previous ruling that prohibited Virtual Photographer, Photomatix, and Lucis Arts. They are fair game now, within reason.
07/15/2009 11:33:16 PM · #92
Originally posted by SDW:

Maybe the rules should be written like this to make things clearer. Of course the rules can be adjusted to fit DPC.

I think we are a site dedicated to photography as an art form, not for forensic or photo-journalistic purposes only.

You are welcome to follow those rules for your own submissions -- except for our Minimal rules they should work for any challenge ... just look at my average score and see how well that system works for me, because probably 90% of my entries would fit those guidelines.
07/15/2009 11:45:04 PM · #93
i have edited the first post in the thread and have changed the rules page.

The restriction on Topaz Adjust has been removed. It is legal for Basic Editing challenges, subject to the rest of the ruleset.

thank you all for your input. it is appreciated.

(i would also appreciate it if someone would link to this thread the next time someone talks about how the SC never listens or is out of touch. :P)
07/15/2009 11:48:12 PM · #94
*poof* Discrepancy solved, though it's somewhat moot this week since every challenge is Advanced. ;-)

Now all tools are legal... just don't use them to an extreme that looks like a special effect (that's our next issue to tackle).

Message edited by author 2009-07-15 23:50:13.
07/15/2009 11:49:39 PM · #95
This is cool. Now I look forward to trying Topaz in a basic challenge. Thanks for working this out :)
07/16/2009 12:00:13 AM · #96
Originally posted by scalvert:

*poof* Discrepancy solved, though it's somewhat moot this week since every challenge is Advanced. ;-)

Now all tools are legal... just don't use them to an extreme that looks like a special effect (that's our next issue to tackle).


"extreme", Hehe, I bet you guys can't wait to start ruling on THAT lovely, ultra-subjective word.

This is where a visual continuum of examples would do well to illustrate what is 'extreme' and what is not, and to approximate the 'line' to be drawn. Perhaps use the same image, processed ever more extremely, and then mark a point where it exceeds the bounds of the rule.

And then the idea of the DQ library would be great as a body of jurisprudence from which we could reference and learn from.

But even then, I think there is a loophole when you are comparing against the original image - What is stopping someone from going 'extreme' with a legal tool, and then using the effects filter to a lesser extent to tweak?

07/16/2009 12:14:35 AM · #97
Originally posted by muckpond:

i have edited the first post in the thread and have changed the rules page.

The restriction on Topaz Adjust has been removed. It is legal for Basic Editing challenges, subject to the rest of the ruleset.

thank you all for your input. it is appreciated.

(i would also appreciate it if someone would link to this thread the next time someone talks about how the SC never listens or is out of touch. :P)


I don't care what the new rules are. I do usually vote 1-3 for over processed photos anyway.
07/16/2009 12:20:38 AM · #98
Originally posted by AP:

What is stopping someone from going 'extreme' with a legal tool, and then using the effects filter to a lesser extent to tweak?

EVERYTHING is now a legal tool as long as it's applied globally on a single data layer, so as it currently stands you can use whatever you want. "Corrective" edits aren't an issue, so the "effect/feature" test will only come up when you're using a strong application for a particular look (in which case you should already know you're venturing into that territory). Creating something that wasn't in the original is still not allowed (vignettes, lens flare...). A determination of "extreme use" would come down to a majority of this small group of site volunteers deciding that your entry has been processed to look more like an illustration or wild graphic than a photo. If in doubt, you can always ask.
07/16/2009 12:22:42 AM · #99
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by AP:

What is stopping someone from going 'extreme' with a legal tool, and then using the effects filter to a lesser extent to tweak?

EVERYTHING is now a legal tool as long as it's applied globally on a single data layer, so as it currently stands you can use whatever you want. "Corrective" edits aren't an issue, so the "effect/feature" test will only come up when you're using a strong application for a particular look (in which case you should already know you're venturing into that territory). Creating something that wasn't in the original is still not allowed (vignettes, lens flare...). A determination of "extreme use" would come down to a majority of this small group of site volunteers deciding that your entry has been processed to look more like an illustration or wild graphic than a photo. If in doubt, you can always ask.


I am fine with that, but is that just for basic?

Message edited by author 2009-07-16 00:23:07.
07/16/2009 12:32:21 AM · #100
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by AP:

What is stopping someone from going 'extreme' with a legal tool, and then using the effects filter to a lesser extent to tweak?

EVERYTHING is now a legal tool as long as it's applied globally on a single data layer, so as it currently stands you can use whatever you want. "Corrective" edits aren't an issue, so the "effect/feature" test will only come up when you're using a strong application for a particular look (in which case you should already know you're venturing into that territory). Creating something that wasn't in the original is still not allowed (vignettes, lens flare...). A determination of "extreme use" would come down to a majority of this small group of site volunteers deciding that your entry has been processed to look more like an illustration or wild graphic than a photo. If in doubt, you can always ask.


Wait so now i'm confused... ANY tool, when it creates a distinct 'effect' is now illegal?
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