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08/19/2009 12:49:13 AM · #1
Hi Im almost new here but I have read lots of complaints (including myself) on the low votes without comments. I think a good idea of avoiding trolls is that if anyone is giving a 1 or 2 score is mandatory to leave a comment, in that way if people are only messing around with their votes, they will have to work a little more to do it!!!! And the people who receibe them will have an explanation at least.

Another suggestion is that I think that a challenge shouldnt exceed from 100 entries, in that way we can make sure that voters are looking at all the entries and not only the first ones.

Share your thoughts!!!
08/19/2009 01:00:01 AM · #2
I said the same thing about commenting being required for low votes in another thread. This should be a place to learn and grow as a photographer, which is only possible with actual feedback. It would be interesting if they'd give it a whirl for a week on all of the challenges to see how it goes. Worst case scenario is that less people vote and the minimum score simply becomes the lowest score that doesn't require a comment, but hey, it might actually work and people might actually be able to learn from their mistakes.

As for the total number of entries, I don't necessarily agree with that, but I do understand your point. It'd be nice if everyone had roughly the same number of votes, but in reality, the first cut in many "real" photo competitions is done simply by way of the thumbnail: if the image isn't compelling as a thumbnail, it doesn't ever get looked at full sized. Therefore I don't have too much beef with the overall voting system or the number of entries.

- Alex
08/19/2009 01:00:40 AM · #3
This was in place, where comments werent mandatory for low votes, but it was suggested that when you place a low vote, that you leave a comment. Not many people did, so it was taken off.

As for limiting to 100 entries, I would not like this. Sometimes I shoot at the last minute for a challenge, and I wouldnt want to be blocked out. I also wouldnt want to rush to finish a shoot just to get it in. I like it when challenges have huge numbers of entries. I find a high finish with a lot of entries more satisfying than a high finish with only a few entries.

ETA

You can always ask the Critique club for feedback, or post the image in a forum post after the challenge and ask for more feedback. ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' vawendy has a thread like that now, and she is getting the feedback she wants.

Message edited by author 2009-08-19 01:01:57.
08/19/2009 01:04:00 AM · #4
' . substr('//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/sm/torched_horse.gif', strrpos('//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/sm/torched_horse.gif', '/') + 1) . '
08/19/2009 01:05:26 AM · #5
I'm afraid you have touched on a dead horse topic that comes up at least once a week. My idea is a javascript application that provides an electrical shock through the mouse for those people that leave a low vote without explanation.

When I joined the site, there was a reminder that popped up when you left the first vote of 3 or less, reminding you of the courtesy to leave an explanatory comment. That was done away with. I guess either it didn't do much good, or it resulted in useless comments.

I feel the best way to help the problem is to set the example and be one of the heavy commenters yourself, making extra effort to explain the votes of 4 and under. I have also taken to letting the people who explain a low vote know that I appreciate the gesture.
08/19/2009 01:10:10 AM · #6
Right, it was suggested, not mandatory (read: part of the programming on the site). Why not try it out and see what happens?

As for the CC threads, while I agree that it is a great way to get some quality feedback, it's unlikely that anyone that gave a really low score is going to speak up. Additionally, when a photo has alot of sub-4 votes (like my Nickelback entry: 37 votes at 3 and below!) it would provide the opportunity to receive of feedback from the actual voters as to why the didn't like the shot instead of people that either liked it or found it "just OK" to speculate as to why it didn't do well. It's similar (but not quite the same, I realize) to asking other kids in class why your paper didn't do well instead of asking the teacher.

- Alex
08/19/2009 01:12:06 AM · #7
...oh and if you don't have an opinion, don't just click 4 or 5. Better leave it without a vote.
08/19/2009 01:22:13 AM · #8
Of course it didn't do any good, Steve, neither do speed limit signs. However, if all cars had a governor set to the speed limit, then no one would be able to speed (yes, forum-stasi, I realize that different roads have different limits :rolleyes). Make it MANDATORY and see if it changes things. If not, oh well. What do we lose?

- Alex
08/19/2009 01:28:06 AM · #9
Originally posted by Alex_Europa:

Of course it didn't do any good, Steve, neither do speed limit signs. However, if all cars had a governor set to the speed limit, then no one would be able to speed (yes, forum-stasi, I realize that different roads have different limits :rolleyes). Make it MANDATORY and see if it changes things. If not, oh well. What do we lose?

- Alex


we will lose the willingness of people to give lower votes (or vote at all) to the images that deserve them and skew the scores into inflation mode..

08/19/2009 01:36:00 AM · #10
You're right, but I don't know if I'd consider losing those people an actual loss. I mean seriously, that has to be the epitome of laziness. You have 6 days to leave a comment on the photos that you don't feel were very good. If the total is so high that it would take you an exorbitant amount of time to leave comments, then maybe you (not *you* Urfa) need to rethink your scoring system.

However, the likelihood of people inflating their scores to meet the minimum no-comment requirement is quite high, as I suggested in my initial post. But there's only one way to know if that actually happens....give it a try. One week, that's all I ask.

- Alex
08/19/2009 01:49:46 AM · #11
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:



we will lose the willingness of people to give lower votes (or vote at all) to the images that deserve them and skew the scores into inflation mode..


I agree with Urfa.. She was the first to pick one of my pics as a fvourite. Thanks :-)
08/19/2009 03:08:35 AM · #12
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

' . substr('//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/sm/torched_horse.gif', strrpos('//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/sm/torched_horse.gif', '/') + 1) . '
08/19/2009 03:21:48 AM · #13
Originally posted by Alex_Europa:

Right, it was suggested, not mandatory (read: part of the programming on the site). Why not try it out and see what happens?

As for the CC threads, while I agree that it is a great way to get some quality feedback, it's unlikely that anyone that gave a really low score is going to speak up. Additionally, when a photo has alot of sub-4 votes (like my Nickelback entry: 37 votes at 3 and below!) it would provide the opportunity to receive of feedback from the actual voters as to why the didn't like the shot instead of people that either liked it or found it "just OK" to speculate as to why it didn't do well. It's similar (but not quite the same, I realize) to asking other kids in class why your paper didn't do well instead of asking the teacher.

- Alex


I left you a comment. I'm not one of the 37...left a comment anyway.
08/19/2009 03:35:08 AM · #14
Originally posted by Alex_Europa:


As for the CC threads, while I agree that it is a great way to get some quality feedback, it's unlikely that anyone that gave a really low score is going to speak up.
- Alex

Not how the CC works - members don't get to pick which they critique, the computer randomly generates one, and you go with what you are given. Makes the critique process quite challenging, but more worth-while.
08/19/2009 03:45:13 AM · #15
As a software developer I've discovered that it is not possible to enforce things like mandatory comments or notes fields. What tends to happen is the user put any old rubbish in "asdf" or "0QAA[UEDIUHFKNJZV;H" or such like.

For my part I'm not going to submit anymore sub-standard pictures just because I spent time taking them (currently got a dive bomber of brown ribboner in the appliances category).

Not that nicoleangles photos are sub-standard, I think it is a pity that people vote a photo a 1 or 2 just because they don't like it. That smarty one may not be to everyones taste but as pop art it isn't badly done, 3 o 4 if you don't like it but can't we reserve 1 and 2 for shear badly executed photography within its own genre?

I do think that it may be worth considering giving people who have voted on all the photos in a competion the ability to rank say their top 4.
08/19/2009 09:26:33 AM · #16
bspurgeon, thanks for the comment, it was really helpful!

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by Alex_Europa:


As for the CC threads, while I agree that it is a great way to get some quality feedback, it's unlikely that anyone that gave a really low score is going to speak up.
- Alex

Not how the CC works - members don't get to pick which they critique, the computer randomly generates one, and you go with what you are given. Makes the critique process quite challenging, but more worth-while.


Sara, I mispoke. I wasn't referring to the Critique Club, I was referring to the threads that people start in order to get more "unofficial" critiques.

Originally posted by ineedauniquename:

As a software developer I've discovered that it is not possible to enforce things like mandatory comments or notes fields. What tends to happen is the user put any old rubbish in "asdf" or "0QAA[UEDIUHFKNJZV;H" or such like.

For my part I'm not going to submit anymore sub-standard pictures just because I spent time taking them (currently got a dive bomber of brown ribboner in the appliances category).

Not that nicoleangles photos are sub-standard, I think it is a pity that people vote a photo a 1 or 2 just because they don't like it. That smarty one may not be to everyones taste but as pop art it isn't badly done, 3 o 4 if you don't like it but can't we reserve 1 and 2 for shear badly executed photography within its own genre?

I do think that it may be worth considering giving people who have voted on all the photos in a competion the ability to rank say their top 4.


I'm quite certain that the people who decided to leave "asdf" with a low score would be ousted by the community (via peer pressure) pretty quickly. This is a PHOTOGRAPHY website, if someone isn't willing to actually analyze and consider their vote before clicking 1 or 2, then IMO their vote isn't worth squat.

- Alex
08/19/2009 09:31:34 AM · #17
Originally posted by ineedauniquename:

As a software developer I've discovered that it is not possible to enforce things like mandatory comments or notes fields. What tends to happen is the user put any old rubbish in "asdf" or "0QAA[UEDIUHFKNJZV;H" or such like.

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

My idea is a javascript application that provides an electrical shock through the mouse for those people that leave a low vote without explanation.

Do you know Javascript?
08/19/2009 10:13:54 AM · #18
I know javascript enough to do what I need with it

pointyspike = HTTPResponse.getSpike()
pointyspike.up()
pointyspike.volts(240)

if HTTPResponse.getScore() <= 2 && HTTResponse.getComment.equals("asdf") then
pointyspike.deploybarbs()

:-)
08/19/2009 10:17:55 AM · #19
[quote]
I'm quite certain that the people who decided to leave "asdf" with a low score would be ousted by the community (via peer pressure) pretty quickly. This is a PHOTOGRAPHY website, if someone isn't willing to actually analyze and consider their vote before clicking 1 or 2, then IMO their vote isn't worth squat.

- Alex [/quote]

Yeah I thought that, not nice though. However it may be worth the comittee running some analysis on members votes, it wouldn't be hard to spot the real trolls (those what score sub 3 all the time) and have a quiet word with them.

I guess we just have to live with it.
08/19/2009 10:29:17 AM · #20
Originally posted by ineedauniquename:

I know javascript enough to do what I need with it

pointyspike = HTTPResponse.getSpike()
pointyspike.up()
pointyspike.volts(240)

if HTTPResponse.getScore() <= 2 && HTTResponse.getComment.equals("asdf") then
pointyspike.deploybarbs()

:-)

hahahaha! Priceless. There you go, Spiffmeister!
08/19/2009 12:22:55 PM · #21
Maybe dpc should post each users voting statistics on the "Photographer Profiles" page under the "Community" tab.
Plenty of room. Sort on it as well.
The only way to see the "Avg Vote Cast" now is to enter a users profile.
08/19/2009 12:52:12 PM · #22
One thing I have noticed when tracking a low voter is that they crash through the field at an alarming rate, ie just hitting 1 1 1 1 etc.
So why not make it more difficult for them to apply this style of voting in this way.

If you vote 1 or below a window should pop up reminding you that it would be courteous to leave a message for the photographer.
The window should pop up in such a way that only a mouse click will make it go away and then perhaps another window should pop up
asking if they are really sure they don't want to leave a message.

In this way they are still not obliged to leave a message but it becomes cumbersome to go through voting 1s and 2s in the way way they tend to now.

Message edited by author 2009-08-19 12:52:59.
08/19/2009 12:55:06 PM · #23
I would like to see comments being required for 1-2 and for 9-10.
08/19/2009 12:55:44 PM · #24
If people leave asdf we would know exactly who are the trolls! And DPC can take them out of the site :)
08/19/2009 12:59:54 PM · #25
Originally posted by nicoleangel:

If people leave asdf we would know exactly who are the trolls! And DPC can take them out of the site :)


You are assuming that they care,

Not DPC I mean the trolls lol

Message edited by author 2009-08-19 13:00:11.
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