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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> DMC or Shoehorn Bull....
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09/16/2009 02:17:39 AM · #1
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1091/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_819130.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1091/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_819130.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

So this image didn't include pencils paper or a school bus, clearly your education was sorely lacking if you never had a science class. I have been on several outings with my children when they went to the local botanical garden, the Columbia river or Mt Saint Helens to study geology, biology, and botany. Not only did they find frogs on these outing but deer elk fish and plants of all shapes and description. Shoehorn hardly, creative interpretation not really how many kids turn in science papers about the life cycle of a frog in grade school.

This image has more comments than nearly any other image I have submitted the vast majority had something to do with shoehorn or DMC. I say open your mind and see what you can do to think not so much out of the box but how can I creatively fulfill the challenge, how many pencil paper and school bus images do we need to see.

I fully expect the same old tiered responses to this post if you are going to defend the closed minded attitude of voters forget it.

Rant complete, back to the game.
09/16/2009 02:23:39 AM · #2
Great photograph. I scored yours higher than most but have to agree with the throng. When you go back and read the challenge description it states "photograph something indicative of going back to school."

Not only yours, but many others didn't convey the going back part to me.
09/16/2009 02:30:46 AM · #3
I just don't get the impression of returning to school. An aspect of education, yes, going back to school, no.

I gave it a 5, mostly because I presumed you had a decent reason for this to represent back to school and it's a good photograph.

I thought my shot was stretch... ;)
09/16/2009 02:36:35 AM · #4
I agree; I have no problem seeing this as school-related, but I don't get the "going back to" part of the assignment from this image.

R.
09/16/2009 06:18:07 PM · #5
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I agree; I have no problem seeing this as school-related, but I don't get the "going back to" part of the assignment from this image.

R.


By your definition then the second place photo is an image about a subject, math and is therefor a shoehorn. Number 5 is also a subject photography 101 again a subject not going back to school and a shoehorn. At least be consistent.

Also 'going back what to' they don't fit that statement any better than my image does. Oh wait they have paper and pens or pencils in them, that is what indicates going back to school. Got it.

09/16/2009 06:41:42 PM · #6
Originally posted by scotthadl:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I agree; I have no problem seeing this as school-related, but I don't get the "going back to" part of the assignment from this image.

R.


By your definition then the second place photo is an image about a subject, math and is therefor a shoehorn. Number 5 is also a subject photography 101 again a subject not going back to school and a shoehorn. At least be consistent.

Also 'going back what to' they don't fit that statement any better than my image does. Oh wait they have paper and pens or pencils in them, that is what indicates going back to school. Got it.


Hey, I didn't say ANY of those meet my personal expectations of "going back", did I? Back down a little willya? People are just giving an opinion, since you ASKED.

R.
09/16/2009 06:43:11 PM · #7
2nd place is not as much of a shoehorn as yours because it ONLY works as a math shot (and thus school). Nobody takes a picture of a protractor for fun (well, maybe Irene does). Your shot suffers (in this challenge) because it also happens to be a nice macro shot and thus invites people to wonder if you just happened to get a nice frog shot and put it in the challenge.

Honest question. Did you come up with the idea for taking a picture of a frog on a flower before you went out shooting and for the expressed purpose of the challenge? If so, then you got the short end of the stick with people thinking it was a shoehorn. If not, then I think the consensus is reasonable.

Message edited by author 2009-09-16 18:43:44.
09/16/2009 06:52:32 PM · #8
First of all I gave this a 7.
Please note DPC is not only an American community, there are people here from all over the world, people whom their science classes doesn't include animals, only books, projectors and maybe computers.
What do you think a frog on a flower would present to them? A frog on a flower :) not related to schools at all.
There is a huge space here to think it is a shoehorn.
It is a point of view, thats said, I think it is a wonderful picture, great macro and lighting .. again, I gave it 7.
Cheers,
09/16/2009 07:06:50 PM · #9
Originally posted by scotthadl:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1091/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_819130.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1091/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_819130.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

So this image didn't include pencils paper or a school bus, clearly your education was sorely lacking if you never had a science class. I have been on several outings with my children when they went to the local botanical garden, the Columbia river or Mt Saint Helens to study geology, biology, and botany. Not only did they find frogs on these outing but deer elk fish and plants of all shapes and description. Shoehorn hardly, creative interpretation not really how many kids turn in science papers about the life cycle of a frog in grade school.

This image has more comments than nearly any other image I have submitted the vast majority had something to do with shoehorn or DMC. I say open your mind and see what you can do to think not so much out of the box but how can I creatively fulfill the challenge, how many pencil paper and school bus images do we need to see.

I fully expect the same old tiered responses to this post if you are going to defend the closed minded attitude of voters forget it.

Rant complete, back to the game.


Well, if you wish to label people as being closed-minded for not 'getting' this entry, then I'll happily be closed-minded. You see, the challenges are here for a reason, to challenge you. That challenge is not just to take a photo and enter it, but to take a photo that is going to resonate with the most people possible and tie into the challenge for the most people as possible. We can go blue in the face wishing people would see every challenge as, basically, a Free Study, but what good would that do? Then we just have full time Free Studies, and the whole challenge aspect is gone. If that's all you want, there are monthly free studies you can enter :)

09/16/2009 07:50:37 PM · #10
If the frog was dead and pinned down to a tray of paraffin wax for dissection, I would have thought it was more school related... a bit of a stretch as it is, although a fine photo.
09/16/2009 07:55:05 PM · #11
welcome to the wacky, most misunderstood, world of DPC. : )
09/16/2009 07:56:57 PM · #12
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by scotthadl:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1091/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_819130.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1091/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_819130.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

So this image didn't include pencils paper or a school bus, clearly your education was sorely lacking if you never had a science class. I have been on several outings with my children when they went to the local botanical garden, the Columbia river or Mt Saint Helens to study geology, biology, and botany. Not only did they find frogs on these outing but deer elk fish and plants of all shapes and description. Shoehorn hardly, creative interpretation not really how many kids turn in science papers about the life cycle of a frog in grade school.

This image has more comments than nearly any other image I have submitted the vast majority had something to do with shoehorn or DMC. I say open your mind and see what you can do to think not so much out of the box but how can I creatively fulfill the challenge, how many pencil paper and school bus images do we need to see.

I fully expect the same old tiered responses to this post if you are going to defend the closed minded attitude of voters forget it.

Rant complete, back to the game.


Well, if you wish to label people as being closed-minded for not 'getting' this entry, then I'll happily be closed-minded. You see, the challenges are here for a reason, to challenge you. That challenge is not just to take a photo and enter it, but to take a photo that is going to resonate with the most people possible and tie into the challenge for the most people as possible. We can go blue in the face wishing people would see every challenge as, basically, a Free Study, but what good would that do? Then we just have full time Free Studies, and the whole challenge aspect is gone. If that's all you want, there are monthly free studies you can enter :)


+1... thanks for sparring me the effort of having to type that out :)
09/16/2009 11:41:26 PM · #13
Honestly, it just came across like "I just got this cool frog shot! Lemme stick it in a challenge--hmmmm, Back To School. Well, they study frogs in school sometimes so that should work."

Nothing about this shot had a Back to School feel, and probably wouldn't have connected with the viewers in a purely School challenge.

Blame the closed-minded voters if it helps you sleep better, tell them to open their minds (keep yours closed--it is probably easier, right?). Be confrontational and judgmental in a post where you only want people to post if they will agree with you and see how much you will learn here, how much goodwill you will build.

Or think about what the whole challenge purpose is--to challenge YOU to connect with the viewers/voters on a specific topic. Open your mind, see what you can learn from the feedback you received.

K10DGuy already said that better.

Message edited by author 2009-09-16 23:53:55.
09/17/2009 12:07:19 AM · #14
I will also add that if this picture is supposed to relate to biology, then really any picture of anything would relate to some education topic. A landscape could be geography, a person could be anatomy, etc. And then the challenge goes out the window.

The link of your shot to school is a big stretch - I mean if you want to count field trips then this really just becomes a free study. Interpreting challenges might be frustrating from time to time but a general rule would be to limit how much leeway you ask of the viewer.
09/17/2009 12:14:32 AM · #15
now if the frog had been splayed open with a scalpel laid out on a table.... (ewwwww) but i would have scored it higher if it was as good a shot as this one was.

but on a flower? i didn't get the 'back to school' vibe either.

Message edited by author 2009-09-17 00:15:22.
09/17/2009 07:39:11 AM · #16
It's.......a........frog.

That's it, a frog; not splayed out in a dissecting tray, not sitting on the hood of a schoolbus, not surrounded by a bunch of wide-eyed kids on a field trip.

So.....I'll throw this back on you.

Explain HOW on any level, this says "Back to School".

What you have to understand is that the burden of the message is on you. If you tank, you failed to get your message across.

You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Make your message clear, you'll get the appropriate response.

ETA: Trying to drive the image with the title is a big DPC no-no as well.

FWIW, it's a *REALLY* nice picture of a frog, just doesn't happen to meet the challenge.....8>)

Message edited by author 2009-09-17 07:41:22.
09/17/2009 08:40:46 AM · #17
Originally posted by scotthadl:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1091/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_819130.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1091/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_819130.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

So this image didn't include pencils paper or a school bus, clearly your education was sorely lacking if you never had a science class. I have been on several outings with my children when they went to the local botanical garden, the Columbia river or Mt Saint Helens to study geology, biology, and botany. Not only did they find frogs on these outing but deer elk fish and plants of all shapes and description. Shoehorn hardly, creative interpretation not really how many kids turn in science papers about the life cycle of a frog in grade school.

This image has more comments than nearly any other image I have submitted the vast majority had something to do with shoehorn or DMC. I say open your mind and see what you can do to think not so much out of the box but how can I creatively fulfill the challenge, how many pencil paper and school bus images do we need to see.

I fully expect the same old tiered responses to this post if you are going to defend the closed minded attitude of voters forget it.

Rant complete, back to the game.


The problem is, if we opened our mind that far, anything can be about school. A sunset of the mountains -- geography, a person--biology, a car--auto shop, a water drop--physics. When I was voting, I wanted it to be obvious that it was about school. Even if the frog had just been placed on a black surface, that would have worked. It would have looked like a lab table or something. I have never seen a frog on a flower in school. The challenge is to show the topic. If you had shown the picture to 100 people (without the title) and asked them what it was about, I don't think that anyone would have come up with "back to school". Out of the box is fine and exciting as long as it still meets the challenge, and there have been some spectacular shots over the years that are out of the box, but still fit the challenge beautifully.

oh well, just read the rest and AP already said it. But I said it again, so there! :D

Message edited by author 2009-09-17 08:41:28.
09/17/2009 11:21:06 PM · #18
Photography is largely about telling a story of some kind. When it's a free study you can tell any story you want, but when we're given a challenge topic the challenge is to use a photo to tell a story about that subject.

There is no story of back to school here whatsoever so you didn't succeed at the challenge and I wouldn't expect you to score higher than a 5.

If you wanted to use a similar image or elements consider adding something that tells the back to school story. A school bus in the background indicating a field trip might have worked. A child examining the frog. A ruler measuring the frog. A group of people with notebooks observing the frog. Whatever.

You can't honestly believe anyone would look at that picture alone and think back to school or even school.

If you had done a gallery showing called "school" this might have worked if it were placed in the context of other shots about studying nature and science. But this isn't a gallery showing and standing alone this picture simply dnmc.

Not a bad shot though.

09/17/2009 11:29:00 PM · #19
I vote shoehorn bull. Show that photo to as many people as you like and ask them what it means. You might not find a single person on the entire planet who thought it communicated "back to school." It's a fine image color, focus and composition all very good but DNMC for this topic.
09/17/2009 11:30:39 PM · #20
Originally posted by scotthadl:

I fully expect the same old tiered responses to this post if you are going to defend the closed minded attitude of voters forget it.
Rant complete, back to the game.

I agree, this should be in the Rant section.
09/18/2009 12:11:21 AM · #21
I find it amusing that this thread keeps getting responses to the OP, and the OP has been AWOL for a solid two days now. :-)
09/18/2009 12:40:41 AM · #22
This image is amazing, but the voters (i think including me) wish to see more obvious things. And you must remember there are voters from other countrys here too. I never had a visit to the local botanic garden or open a frog. I missed the class we opened a fish actually. But i did see the cycle of a frog. But anyway...when i see a shot with a frog and a flower the last thing i remember is comming back to school.
I love the colors, textures and light in this shot.
09/24/2009 06:28:43 PM · #23
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

2nd place is not as much of a shoehorn as yours because it ONLY works as a math shot (and thus school). Nobody takes a picture of a protractor for fun (well, maybe Irene does). Your shot suffers (in this challenge) because it also happens to be a nice macro shot and thus invites people to wonder if you just happened to get a nice frog shot and put it in the challenge.

Honest question. Did you come up with the idea for taking a picture of a frog on a flower before you went out shooting and for the expressed purpose of the challenge? If so, then you got the short end of the stick with people thinking it was a shoehorn. If not, then I think the consensus is reasonable.


Hey thanks Doc at least you are open enough to consider the fact the image was shot with the challenge in mind and not and opportunistic chance to enter a nice photo of a frog.

I was looking for something out of the ordinary for this challenge, and yes I wanted something related to the "what did you do last summer essay". My children are much too old to pose with the frog so leaving it on the flower where I found him was a much better option then removing him to the kitchen where I could place him in a test tube for a pseudo classroom look. Or place him in a desk drawer for the good old scare the teach routine. I probably should have grabbed a magnifying glass or some other tool used to investigate the world around us and included it in the shot.

For me when scoring an image I always look at how the photographer might have thought the image applied to the challenge and give them some latitude.



09/24/2009 07:05:58 PM · #24
Originally posted by pedrobop:

This image is amazing, but the voters (i think including me) wish to see more obvious things. And...


I have to say that there seems to be a lot of truth in that statement despite only having entered 2 challenges on this site so far.

My first entry had a few people commenting that my entry was a shoehorn whereas I was actually trying to avoid the obvious and the cliche and go for something more subtle. It's a fine line if you are looking to do something a little different and as such, you have to be prepared for some to simply not get it and certainly not expect everyone to get it.

There are no rules to how people vote and seemingly not a whole lot of consistency but I bet there are some decent shots that the OP's has beaten that are far more relevant to the challenge!
09/24/2009 07:29:08 PM · #25
Originally posted by scotthadl:

For me when scoring an image I always look at how the photographer might have thought the image applied to the challenge and give them some latitude.

More people should do that by all means, but you have to remember that you're dealing with somewhere in the range of a 2-5 second glance on most people's first run-through.

Your image is unlikely to get anything but dissed under those circumstances.

As decent as I try to be when voting, I am guilty of the same type of thing myself, and generally only when I'm commenting heavily will I reach hard to try to understand an entry that is obviously looking for the subtle nuance.

You must always bear in mind when working outside the box that some people can't see over the edge.....8>)
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