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09/16/2009 05:02:25 PM · #1
I just want things to be FAIR!

Why is the now 2nd place Mathematics photo not been dq'd yet? I understand it is IreneM's photo, and everybody thinks she does such a great job , but the fact is that the photo has cloning in it past the point of the allowed rules. Why is this not being looked at? Is it because she is a site favorite? She does have some fine photos, but a rule violation is a rule violation. Let's be fair across the board. I understand SC can decide whether or not to dq, but others have been dq'd for similar and lesser infractions.

The word Germany and an obvious logo were cloned out of the picture. You can see the reflection of it at the bottom of the picture.

Advanced rules:
Allowed to do: clone out incidental power lines, twigs, dust specks, stray hairs, and similar minor imperfections within any capture used.

Not allowed to do: use ANY editing tool to move, remove or duplicate any element of your photograph that would change a typical viewer’s description of the photograph (aside from color or crop), even if the tool is otherwise legal, and regardless of whether you intended the change when the photograph was taken.

Message edited by author 2009-09-16 17:06:26.
09/16/2009 05:08:49 PM · #2
And you are stirring up s**t, why?

Maybe her cloning is close to the line of legality but I'm sure the SC will be fair with their validation process. It's a pity the SC doesn't get things done more quickly! ;)
09/16/2009 05:09:24 PM · #3
I don't think it is fair to call the photo out in the forum. The SC should be reviewing the original and they need time to make a decision. The SC does not play 'favorites' from what I have seen in the past.

Be patient - if there truely is a rule violation, it will be DQed after the SC has had time to review it. If there isn't a rule violation, then it isn't fair to pubicly accuse her for something she did not do.
09/16/2009 05:16:49 PM · #4
Who's stirring up s**t? I am just bringing it to the attention of people who may not have noticed it. I am not asking SC to do it faster. Is there another way to let people know?


Originally posted by mpeters:

And you are stirring up s**t, why?

Maybe her cloning is close to the line of legality but I'm sure the SC will be fair with their validation process. It's a pity the SC doesn't get things done more quickly! ;)
09/16/2009 05:18:28 PM · #5
You can submit a ticket using the feature under "Help", Contact Us, in the upper toolbar.
09/16/2009 05:20:35 PM · #6
It doesn't matter to me whether you think what I said was fair or not. SC has obviously been checking some photos, as the second place photo was dq'd already. I assume they would be going in the order of best to worst photo. Being that this one was in 3rd, I figured it would have been handled already. If it is not dq'd for a rule violation, I can only assume it is because of playing favorites, where that is covered in SC having the right to dq or not to justify it. It is blatant, and I feel it should be dq'd. And no, I did not enter this challenge.

Originally posted by moriadelacroix:

I don't think it is fair to call the photo out in the forum. The SC should be reviewing the original and they need time to make a decision. The SC does not play 'favorites' from what I have seen in the past.

Be patient - if there truely is a rule violation, it will be DQed after the SC has had time to review it. If there isn't a rule violation, then it isn't fair to pubicly accuse her for something she did not do.
09/16/2009 05:26:04 PM · #7
If the second place ribbon just got dq'd dont you think the next one to look at would be the third place ribbon? Which is the one you're talking about. They haven't even posted that they recalculated the the scores, chill. We don't need to know about this, submit a ticket to SC to bring it to their attention. If tomorrow or so after they SC posts it isn't resolved then you can start a thread whining and moaning. You are making a lot of unjust accusations.
09/16/2009 05:26:28 PM · #8
The second place photo was a no-brainer DQ vote. Surely you understand why it might take the the SC longer to decide on Irene's photo.

***
of course you are just stirring things up. Slow day at work...

Message edited by author 2009-09-16 17:27:59.
09/16/2009 05:26:40 PM · #9
Originally posted by rugman1969:

It doesn't matter to me whether you think what I said was fair or not. SC has obviously been checking some photos, as the second place photo was dq'd already. I assume they would be going in the order of best to worst photo. Being that this one was in 3rd, I figured it would have been handled already. If it is not dq'd for a rule violation, I can only assume it is because of playing favorites, where that is covered in SC having the right to dq or not to justify it. It is blatant, and I feel it should be dq'd. And no, I did not enter this challenge.

Originally posted by moriadelacroix:

I don't think it is fair to call the photo out in the forum. The SC should be reviewing the original and they need time to make a decision. The SC does not play 'favorites' from what I have seen in the past.

Be patient - if there truely is a rule violation, it will be DQed after the SC has had time to review it. If there isn't a rule violation, then it isn't fair to pubicly accuse her for something she did not do.


The top 5 finishers all have to submit their originals. Sometimes this takes longer to validate. The photographer has 48 hours to submit their original...but depending on the work load of the SC this can take longer than the allocated time to validate. I have had some validations take up to 3 weeks.

They don't go through checking every entry in the challenge.

I find it very difficult to believe that Irene would have done some cloning in a Basic challenge.

Edit to add...I noticed this is an Advanced Editing challenge. Her cloning would be legal as it isn't a major element. When you look at the original, what do you see. Some maths equipment on a maths board with reflection.....NOT a collection of maths equipment with a maths board and reflection...oh and a logo...that is not how it works. If, however, she had cloned out the ruler...yes that would be a major element.

It is not a matter of favourites...it is a matter of rules. Read them.

Message edited by author 2009-09-16 17:29:11.
09/16/2009 05:28:23 PM · #10
They probably are taking things as the come in. I was the 4th place winner -- now the third, but I didn't submit my original until a couple of hours ago. I didn't want to rush it and submit the wrong picture or info. People have up to 48 hours to submit, so it's possible that some photos aren't even in yet.

But if someone has a problem with my image, I would much rather they sent a ticket to the SC. It's perfectly acceptable to have questions about someone's photo. And if someone was concerned about whether or not I followed the rules, they're welcome to ask the sc. But posting it in a forum seems rile people up. I'm a happily naive person, and I don't believe that someone who makes it to the top would purposely cheat. So I see no need to start a debate. Ask the SC if you feel the need, but don't hang the person out to dry.

(it was advanced editing, btw)

Message edited by author 2009-09-16 17:29:31.
09/16/2009 05:28:44 PM · #11
It did run under the advanced ruleset. :)
09/16/2009 05:29:55 PM · #12
Originally posted by Judi:


I find it very difficult to believe that Irene would have done some cloning in a Basic challenge.


The challenge was run under advanced rules... Not to say she *did* anything illegal anyway (How the hell would I know? And why on earth *would* she?) but still it WAS advanced editing...

R.
09/16/2009 05:31:30 PM · #13
So sorry...I realised that this was Advanced after I pressed post and edited my post before you guys replied. I apologize for any inconvenience. Please read what I wrote at the end of my post.
09/16/2009 05:33:45 PM · #14
The only rule violation that I see is that she didn't remove the text she cloned out from the reflection. That's a serious bummer for any photographer ;)

My understanding of the rule you mentioned is that you CAN do cloning to that extent if it not "changes the typical viewers" view on the picture. Did it change your typical view? Had she cloned out the entire "degree math curved tool_thing" it would've been something completely different.

My suggestions is that you leave this thread be, and her picture, and let SC do it when they have time. It has NOTHING to do with names. Some of the most "respected" members of DPC have been DQ'd, and some of them have even pushed the rules a bit more than allowed while being aware of it.
09/16/2009 05:34:15 PM · #15
i do see what he is saying, and he will probably rebuttal what you said

He is reading this rule, and taking it as you can only do this

Originally posted by rules:

clone out incidental power lines, twigs, dust specks, stray hairs, and similar minor imperfections within any capture used.


But you guys are reading this rule, and saying "tools" means clone still

Originally posted by rules:

apply filters, effects, dodge & burn, and other tools to all or part of your entry, but NO new shapes or features may be created in the process.


so this is where he is coming from in a less hostile manner ;)

Message edited by author 2009-09-16 17:35:37.
09/16/2009 05:46:47 PM · #16
I do see what Rugdude was talking about. The word "Germany" and a big logo is showing up in the reflection but not on the protractor itself.

Would this be the same:

Challenge called "Vehicles" with Advanced Editing Rules.

A photo of the rear of a Ford truck with the word Ford cloned out.
09/16/2009 07:10:45 PM · #17
I found the rules to be a bit hard to understand myself.

In my image for the Heida challenge I cloned out a small sign in the corner that I considered to be equivalent to removing power lines. But I struggled as I read and re-read the rules trying to make sure I was adhering to the letter and spirit of the law. If the sign had been a lot more prominent I think it would have been a violation.

If I were editing the picture in question I would think a logo on the ruler should not be cloned out because the ruler is a major element and the thing you are cloning out is part of that element. Sometimes you can't get an angle that allows you to shoot the picture without powerlines (or the sign I mentioned above) and I figured that's the sort of thing that is acceptable to clone out. Or like smudges or dings on the subject.

I don't know - the logo that allegedly was cloned out here was part of ruler and that seems to be taking the rule too far in my opinion.

Personally I don't really care if the picture is DQ'd but it'd be nice to get a better understanding of the intent of the rule.
09/16/2009 07:16:26 PM · #18
Originally posted by ttreit:

I found the rules to be a bit hard to understand myself.

In my image for the Heida challenge I cloned out a small sign in the corner that I considered to be equivalent to removing power lines. But I struggled as I read and re-read the rules trying to make sure I was adhering to the letter and spirit of the law. If the sign had been a lot more prominent I think it would have been a violation.

If I were editing the picture in question I would think a logo on the ruler should not be cloned out because the ruler is a major element and the thing you are cloning out is part of that element. Sometimes you can't get an angle that allows you to shoot the picture without powerlines (or the sign I mentioned above) and I figured that's the sort of thing that is acceptable to clone out. Or like smudges or dings on the subject.

I don't know - the logo that allegedly was cloned out here was part of ruler and that seems to be taking the rule too far in my opinion.

Personally I don't really care if the picture is DQ'd but it'd be nice to get a better understanding of the intent of the rule.


The 'ruler' is the major element. What Irene removed was a small portion of that ruler...therefore she DID NOT remove a major element.

Powerlines going over a corner of the image is not a major element, unless they were the only element in the picture apart from a blue sky. Powerlines going right across the middle of a horizontal image with a blue sky and not much else would be a major element.
09/16/2009 07:30:13 PM · #19
Talk about a non-issue. I can see how a newbie might question this but anybody who has been here for a while should know by now how insignificant this cloning job was. We are talking about a few letters missing in a sea of letters.

Message edited by author 2009-09-16 19:31:08.
09/16/2009 07:33:02 PM · #20
If Irene had cloned out the reflection, this issue would never have been raised. Doesn't that tell you that what she cloned IS NOT a major element...sheez!

Yanko...I am with you!
09/16/2009 07:39:50 PM · #21
"if Irene had cloned out the reflection...then this issue would never have been raised"...NO that does NOT tell me that what she cloned out IS NOT a major element !

The protractor is a major part of this picture...in fact it IS the main subject. A big BLOB of a logo was cloned completly off the main subject. There is NO WAY this is legal. Nothing against Irene personally but it really should be a DQ.

Originally posted by Judi:

If Irene had cloned out the reflection, this issue would never have been raised. Doesn't that tell you that what she cloned IS NOT a major element...sheez!

Yanko...I am with you!
09/16/2009 07:41:12 PM · #22
Originally posted by kenskid:

"if Irene had cloned out the reflection...then this issue would never have been raised"...NO that does NOT tell me that what she cloned out IS NOT a major element !

The protractor is a major part of this picture...in fact it IS the main subject. A big BLOB of a logo was cloned completly off the main subject. There is NO WAY this is legal. Nothing against Irene personally but it really should be a DQ.

Originally posted by Judi:

If Irene had cloned out the reflection, this issue would never have been raised. Doesn't that tell you that what she cloned IS NOT a major element...sheez!

Yanko...I am with you!


I totally disagree. She DID NOT remove a major element.
09/16/2009 07:42:33 PM · #23
A few letters in a sea of letters? I think not...when the letters along with a BIG logo are removed from the SUBJECT of the photo, it should be a DQ. This would be a mockery of the rules if allowed to stand. In fact, if it stands, this picture will be the "ruler" to which every other "cloning" DQ would be measured against.

Originally posted by yanko:

Talk about a non-issue. I can see how a newbie might question this but anybody who has been here for a while should know by now how insignificant this cloning job was. We are talking about a few letters missing in a sea of letters.
09/16/2009 07:43:08 PM · #24
Originally posted by rugman1969:

Who's stirring up s**t? I am just bringing it to the attention of people who may not have noticed it. I am not asking SC to do it faster. Is there another way to let people know?


Actually, you stated in your first post...

[snip]Why is the now 2nd place Mathematics photo not been dq'd yet?[snip]

so I guess you were asking for them to do it faster. Less then 24 hours after the results have been calculated and your making accusations of cronyism, man. Give it time, people have 48 hours to submit the original and then it can take up to week for SC to determine if there was a rules violation. Relax Henny Penny.
09/16/2009 07:43:11 PM · #25
Originally posted by kenskid:

A few letters in a sea of letters? I think not...when the letters along with a BIG logo are removed from the SUBJECT of the photo, it should be a DQ. This would be a mockery of the rules if allowed to stand. In fact, if it stands, this picture will be the "ruler" to which every other "cloning" DQ would be measured against.

Originally posted by yanko:

Talk about a non-issue. I can see how a newbie might question this but anybody who has been here for a while should know by now how insignificant this cloning job was. We are talking about a few letters missing in a sea of letters.


Oh well....let's ban cloning all together.....this is just ridiculous.
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