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09/29/2009 03:19:30 PM · #1
I don't comment a lot on challenges, have just started to as I have felt previously that I am not an experienced enough photographer to do so. During the last few challenges I have made a few comments, but I am quite disconcerted that on making a comment on a picture in a current challenge I have been PM'd by the entrant. I now know who took this particular picture. This I think is wrong. I now feel forced to hide my name when making comments.
09/29/2009 03:23:34 PM · #2
Originally posted by lyn100:

I don't comment a lot on challenges, have just started to as I have felt previously that I am not an experienced enough photographer to do so. During the last few challenges I have made a few comments, but I am quite disconcerted that on making a comment on a picture in a current challenge I have been PM'd by the entrant. I now know who took this particular picture. This I think is wrong. I now feel forced to hide my name when making comments.


Why would you feel the need to hide your name? You also have the choice to delete the PM sent to you by the user. Or else, you can tell them to back off. More options than anonymity IMO. You don't have to hide.
09/29/2009 03:33:09 PM · #3
keep in mind too, that after the voting has finished, your name will appear next to your comment.. So, they will end up knowing who you are anyways... Besides, it's OK to know who's photo is who's during voting, you just can't allow that to effect your vote..

I wonder if the major issue at hand is those "oh so not pleasant PM's" telling you why your comment wasn't something the photog agreed with... I hate those... In fact, it's the main reason I won't comment on any challenge during voting..

I wish there was a rule that said "you can't send a commenter a PM if you are PMing them to chew them out for not seeing the beauty in your photo, or to point out what you think they are missing or to point out the fact that they mentioned a program "you didn't use", or to do anything other then to say "thanks"... LOL...
09/29/2009 03:36:12 PM · #4
Also don't let PM's from people about your comments discourage you from making comments. Many many many people like that they receive comments even if they don't like the particular comment.

And judging by your scores you are definitely experienced enough to comment on others photos on what you think would make it better. As long as you are leaving constructive comments and not "you suck" or anything like that. No need to hide...let be proud of your comments. I personally don't believe in PMing during challenges, unless the person who commented is WAY off base (ie...saying an apple isn't considered food). Otherwise I may reply after the challenge. But some people will PM you...you can just ignore them or respond. Your choice...but I would rather not have the person hide during the challenge.
09/29/2009 03:49:53 PM · #5
I don't hide my name and don't mind getting PM's during challenges - but I can understand that some people do. When I was new I got a nasty PM from an established member and quit commenting for quite some time. Then I went back to commenting after reading tips on how to comment constructively and do my best to do so. I don't really comment for the person as much as I do it for me. You learn so much. Or, if the pm was nasty/abusive I would send it to SC to deal with. The one thing I never do is change my vote based on a pm but I will reply to explain why I made the comment I did. I am not a pro and I am only giving my opinion when I comment. The funny thing is, I have had comments made on my photos that are not from members with high averages that sometimes were the most insightful/helpful.
09/29/2009 03:50:26 PM · #6
I would be happy to receive a PM after the challenge, but, naively maybe, I feel it isn't in the spirit of things to let it be known which picture is yours. I do not feel the need to hide from it, it was my honest opinion, I will not change my opinion or vote differently because of the PM, but there may be be some who would. I will delete the PM and I will continue to comment and leave my name, thanks for your advice, it is appreciated.
09/29/2009 03:50:58 PM · #7
I will sometimes PM someone in response to a comment, though I try to make sure it does not come off as nasty, or an attempt to change a vote. I may just be responding to a question in their comment. Sometimes I am actually thanking them for explaining a low vote. I'd much rather that than get slammed with low votes and not know why. (More should do this, it benefits both the photographer and the voter).

I don't see anything wrong with it myself, Once they have cast their vote, I think it's ok. I will not change a vote because I've learned whose it is. Besides which, I am getting to where I can often identify the photographer by their style or subjects.

Are any of the responses you are getting of the nasty kind? Please do not let a handful deter you from something that most members appreciate.
09/29/2009 03:58:13 PM · #8
The PM wasn't nasty at all, in fact it was very polite, but the whole idea, I thought, of the challenges was that they are anonymous, PM's however, thanking or berating commenters remove this anonimity.
09/29/2009 04:06:55 PM · #9
Originally posted by lyn100:

PM's however, thanking or berating commenters remove this anonimity.

True enough, but at that point you have already cast your vote, and that was done anonymously.
09/29/2009 04:07:32 PM · #10
Originally posted by lyn100:

The PM wasn't nasty at all, in fact it was very polite, but the whole idea, I thought, of the challenges was that they are anonymous, PM's however, thanking or berating commenters remove this anonimity.


It's easier to agree with both the people that think they should be completely anonymous AND the people that think they shouldn't be completely anonymous by making them anonymous from the start. Whether you want to make anything public by PMing others is up to you. So I don't think the point of stressing anonymity is absolute secrecy, just appeasement of both sides with the thought that "you probably shouldn't, but we don't mind if you do, know whose image it is."
09/29/2009 04:13:21 PM · #11
OK I need to my 2 cents in I guess. I was just looking over old challenges that I've entered, where people voted, and comments made. All I have to say is I really do not like the trolls that give a score of 1 or 2 then leave no comment. That is really horrible. If I screwed up a pic...please tell me what I did wrong....

OK Im off my soap box now

Message edited by author 2009-09-29 16:14:16.
09/29/2009 04:18:33 PM · #12
George917, I do mind knowing who's image it is, I would not want to think that people votes were influened by by knowing whose it is, I can change my vote after it is cast. Cowboy22197, I would leave a comment if I scored an image really low.
09/29/2009 04:21:16 PM · #13
Originally posted by lyn100:

I don't comment a lot on challenges, have just started to as I have felt previously that I am not an experienced enough photographer to do so. During the last few challenges I have made a few comments, but I am quite disconcerted that on making a comment on a picture in a current challenge I have been PM'd by the entrant. I now know who took this particular picture. This I think is wrong. I now feel forced to hide my name when making comments.

Perhaps if you left a comment that was constructive and suggested improvements it would be better received. I wasn't the one who PM'd you but did get a comment from you that didn't meet up to these standards.
09/29/2009 04:24:02 PM · #14
I know you would lynn...I just saw this thread and thought it would be a good time to complain about trolls...lol no harm no foul.
09/29/2009 04:38:40 PM · #15
Franktheyank, I take it your pic is still in voting as I can't find your name among my others, I stand by my comments. Sorry if you felt it was harsh. When the challenge is over and I know which pic is yours I will leave a more constructive comment and explain my in-challenge comment, OK?
09/29/2009 04:45:15 PM · #16
Originally posted by lyn100:

Franktheyank, I take it your pic is still in voting as I can't find your name among my others, I stand by my comments. Sorry if you felt it was harsh. When the challenge is over and I know which pic is yours I will leave a more constructive comment and explain my in-challenge comment, OK?


I guess you have found your answer on why you are getting PMs. If you would leave your constructive comment as your "In Challenge" comment, there would be no need for them to request a further explanation. Problem solved.

Message edited by author 2009-09-29 16:45:37.
09/29/2009 04:48:32 PM · #17
Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by lyn100:

Franktheyank, I take it your pic is still in voting as I can't find your name among my others, I stand by my comments. Sorry if you felt it was harsh. When the challenge is over and I know which pic is yours I will leave a more constructive comment and explain my in-challenge comment, OK?


I guess you have found your answer on why you are getting PMs. If you would leave your constructive comment as your "In Challenge" comment, there would be no need for them to request a further explanation. Problem solved.


she said a MORE constructive comment.

09/29/2009 04:50:35 PM · #18
Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by lyn100:

Franktheyank, I take it your pic is still in voting as I can't find your name among my others, I stand by my comments. Sorry if you felt it was harsh. When the challenge is over and I know which pic is yours I will leave a more constructive comment and explain my in-challenge comment, OK?


I guess you have found your answer on why you are getting PMs. If you would leave your constructive comment as your "In Challenge" comment, there would be no need for them to request a further explanation. Problem solved.


she said a MORE constructive comment.


Reminds me of Henry Kissinger's speech writer. He had to try MORE harder to make sure he got it right as well. ;-)
09/29/2009 04:50:45 PM · #19
Ive gotten a good amount of these as of late, as ive been on a comment spree in the challenges. The bulk of the people do just say something like thanks for the comment, or answer a question I had about the image, or something cordial like that, but there have been a few that have gone on to tell me why my opinion is wrong, or how I don't get it, or whatever. These come off as an attempt to influence me to change my vote (while they don't know what I voted, usually the comment is a good indication of which side of the 5 a vote is on)

This is definitely a deterrent in commenting for sure. It encourages people not to vote/comment until the end of a challenge essentially.

Personally I think that the comments should be anonymous until after voting has ended. It seems that people are too attached to an image and take things too personally during the challenge, but get a humbling/realistic outlook post challenge when they see where they stacked up. Im more then happy to explain a comment to someone, but there is no benefit lost by waiting til post challenge to reply.
09/29/2009 04:57:18 PM · #20
This, as far as I'm concerned, and the reason I started the thread, has nothing to do with making constructive comments, it has to do with me knowing whose picture it is and, maybe, changing my vote accordingly!! I'm sorry frank if my comment was not as constructive as it could or should have been, I promise to try harder. (I wouldn't promise to try more harder, that is really bad grammar).
09/29/2009 05:02:28 PM · #21
lvo, i apologize if i came across a bit brusque, but this topic to me is absolutely mind boggling.

in my almost 8 years at dpc, i have long lost count of the "please leave comment" threads that i've read. if my memory serves me correct, there was ONE person who did not want comments, of any kind, at any point and wanted the ability to block them.

the main deterrant to leaving comments is people that complain during a challenge about a comment they received. most of the time (i would go out on a limb and say upwards of 95% of the time) the comments "in question" simply disagree with the photog and his/her "vision." when it comes to dnmc comments, it is pushing 100%. RARELY is a comment truly very far off-base or completely and totally unhelpful.

my general rule of thumb? if more than one comment says basically the same thing, i, as photog, missed it. if i think it meets the challenge perfectly, and i get 4 comments telling me some form or derivative of "dnmc" (or too dark, or too blurry) that's a pretty doggone good clue that i wasn't clear enough in my presentation.
09/29/2009 05:24:58 PM · #22
And this is where a commenter has to really see who they are commenting for. Is it for themselves to show they can comment on a whole slew of images or is it for the artist to learn and benefit from such a comment. I too used to leave some pretty detailed comments and remember only one occasion where someone shot me a PM back. If I dared offer some "constructive criticism", I'd go to great lengths to ensure I was thorough, objective and respectful. I'd do this at the cost of not leaving as many comments but it was worth it. Come to think of it, I did a while on the critique club as well.
09/29/2009 05:29:05 PM · #23
Originally posted by lyn100:

This, as far as I'm concerned, and the reason I started the thread, has nothing to do with making constructive comments, it has to do with me knowing whose picture it is and, maybe, changing my vote accordingly!! I'm sorry frank if my comment was not as constructive as it could or should have been, I promise to try harder. (I wouldn't promise to try more harder, that is really bad grammar).


I have to admit that I've left comments in the past like you left me. Also, like you I've been called out on it. So you must think before you feel compelled to make a comment as to what you are trying to convey. You should try to get out of your box and realize that there are many ways of visualing challenges. If you aren't being constructive it will almost never be appreciated, unless you think we are all masochists.
09/29/2009 05:43:03 PM · #24
9 Guidelines for Giving and Receiving Feedback (i.e. commenting)


Commenting For Beginners (A Non-Analytical Approach)



3 Steps for Voting on Artistic Photographs

******************
The rules allow for PM exchange during the voting period, except for the purpose of soliciting a change in vote, or if the PM is abusive in violation of the TOS. In either of these cases, please report the circimstances via a Ticket (Help > Contact Us > General Inquiry and don't respond.

If you don't want to receive PMs during the voting, then you can set your preference to Anonymous During Voting, or explicitly state in your comment that you don't want to hear about it during the voting.

Personally, I only send a note during the voting if someone asks a specific question and indicates they'd like to know before voting -- a very rare occurance ...
09/29/2009 06:39:43 PM · #25
I really don't see the benefit of non-anonymous commenting during the challenge though. What could be a reason that a entrant needs to respond during the challenge? I can only think of negatives: harassment over a negative comment, voters finding out and potentially changing their vote based off who the photog is. I mean ultimately it could effect the voting if someone doesn't understand an aspect of an image, the photog could then explain it, and that will potentially change the vote, but at the same time, if the commenter doesn't leave a comment for every single challenge, that becomes an unfair advantage of sorts
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