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09/29/2009 06:56:01 PM · #26
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by lyn100:

PM's however, thanking or berating commenters remove this anonimity.

True enough, but at that point you have already cast your vote, and that was done anonymously.


But....... I think I understand the concern.....
I change my votes in many challenges. I'll go back
thru the top 30 percent or so of entries and look at them again. Seldom do I lower a score..... but sometimes I do bump one up a point.

As a warning to those who PM while the challenge is still in the voting stage..... If you PM me during the challenge, I don't mind at all. But.... your score is frozen at that point, and any adjustment that might have happened, won't.
09/29/2009 07:02:00 PM · #27
Originally posted by lyn100:

I don't comment a lot on challenges, have just started to as I have felt previously that I am not an experienced enough photographer to do so. During the last few challenges I have made a few comments, but I am quite disconcerted that on making a comment on a picture in a current challenge I have been PM'd by the entrant. I now know who took this particular picture. This I think is wrong. I now feel forced to hide my name when making comments.


eeeek !!! I've been guilty of this, always thanking the commentator usually after a particularly bad day, generally for a very well considered comment and always after too much to drink .... knew it was the wrong thing to do though, however I'm also cutting back on the drink so perhaps I'll stop doing it ;-)
09/29/2009 07:03:10 PM · #28
Originally posted by AJSullivan:

I really don't see the benefit of non-anonymous commenting during the challenge though. What could be a reason that a entrant needs to respond during the challenge? I can only think of negatives: harassment over a negative comment, voters finding out and potentially changing their vote based off who the photog is. I mean ultimately it could effect the voting if someone doesn't understand an aspect of an image, the photog could then explain it, and that will potentially change the vote, but at the same time, if the commenter doesn't leave a comment for every single challenge, that becomes an unfair advantage of sorts


It's actually incredibly nice to get a simple "thanks for the comment!" during the challenge, as most photographers after the challenge simply won't do it if it isn't fore-front in their minds.

More people should feel encouraged to send a simple thank you to a commenter. It's a good feeling.
09/29/2009 07:08:22 PM · #29
Originally posted by Ivo:


I guess you have found your answer on why you are getting PMs.


Remember that many PMs are sent because a entrant appreciates the comment. Almost all PMs I've received
during voting have been of this nature. I've never really received a nasty PM during my stay at DPC.

And...... cowboy221977, that's one of the reasons people will get 1's, 2's, 3's, and 4's with no comment.
Sometimes it's darn near impossible to come up with a constructive criticism when you're thinking; "Why in the world did they enter that?" I know I've probably caused the conundrum with several of my entries. Heck, I even wondered why I entered them! :)

And it's been said by many here before, Enter the images that make you happy, don't worry about if they receive high scores, or many approving comments. It's entirely possible that your style of photography might one day make a name for you. It just might not be what sells well on DPC. But.... if you can mold it to fit what works at DPC, surely you can make it anything you desire.
09/29/2009 07:18:22 PM · #30
Originally posted by AJSullivan:

What could be a reason that a entrant needs to respond during the challenge?

I will not hesitate to PM someone who leaves a comment asking a question or who leaves one that is so incisive and kind I cannot help but go ahead and thank them.

I don't *need* to do that, I just feel that it's courteous.
09/29/2009 07:46:55 PM · #31
For what it's worth, I turned off the ability to see who is making comments on my images during voting. Helps subdue the urge to respond. In the end I decided that I would rather have the opinion of the image "in the raw" so to speak. If my image was in a gallery (like that will ever happen) I won't be there to walk the viewer through my vision.

I do not hide my identity when making comments, but if I get a PM taking me to task for my comment I take a second look to see if there was something I missed that I should not have. On a few occasions I have modified my score because I missed something obvious. The rest I ascribe to temperamental artists. ;-)


09/29/2009 07:47:58 PM · #32
Originally posted by lyn100:

... I'm sorry frank if my comment was not as constructive as it could or should have been, I promise to try harder. (I wouldn't promise to try more harder, that is really bad grammar).

Hey Lyn - If you're still following this thread I'd like to say something to address your comment I've quoted here.

A comment is a comment. Period. It's totally yours to make however you please (within some decency guidelines of course). Constructive is fine, but not an absolute. You can say "I like this alot", you can say "I like this alot, the colortone is perfect for this", you can say "I think this is a bit gross", you can say "The photo's ok, but personally I think the subject is somewhat gross IMO"...

...the point is, say what you're comfortable with and don't worry about the fallout. Some people here will never be happy, and some are always easily pleased. In the end - be yourself.

Smile, and keep having fun! :-D
09/29/2009 07:52:40 PM · #33
Originally posted by FireBird:

If you PM me during the challenge, I don't mind at all. But.... your score is frozen at that point, and any adjustment that might have happened, won't.

A reasonable policy. That is an assumption I have always made if I PM someone from their comment, and also how I treat it if someone PM's me. That is the only way to know there is no bias.
09/29/2009 08:00:01 PM · #34
I like what you just wrote Nikonjeb - one thing I can be guilty of is forgetting that the comments are coming from people who don't have to take the time to make any .. a thank you can improve someones day - also, I strive to remember that communicating with written words alone is so open to misinterpretation .... there is no inflection in your voice, no body language to read that truly conveys what it is you're trying to say.

This is so true too when commenting - written words alone can send a harsh message when that is not what you intended. But we are all different so it's good that we have some tools that can be used to filter out things we don't want to read.

edited for clarity

Message edited by author 2009-09-29 21:22:59.
09/29/2009 08:09:34 PM · #35
Another thing I wanted to mention is not to take the 'anonymity' factor so seriously that you become so obsessed with it that it ruins your enjoyment (and others' enjoyment) of participating in these challenges. I've seen it happen to the point of utter ridiculousness, and, sadly, it doesn't need to ever reach that point.

Just simply knowing whose photo is whose isn't going to destroy the basic tenet behind the anonymity factor, it's how you handle and react to knowing whose photo is whose that counts. If you're the kind of person that suddenly can't be objective just because you know the name behind a photo in a challenge, you probably shouldn't be voting (or entering) in the first place, IMO.

So relax, settle in, and just don't worry about the PMs. Which, I think, you've indicated you're already going to do.
09/29/2009 08:58:53 PM · #36
“On an issue that's been in the forums: I'm happy to receive PMs any time. Communication is good!”

This statement has been on my profile page for a very long time – probably since ‘04 or ’05. Because, as you might guess, this subject has been discussed before (once or twice)…

Say you are in a gallery. You are looking at a photograph and make a comment, perhaps praise, perhaps more critical. The photographer is there. Should that person stand by and just accept the comment? Or should the artist say why s/he interpreted the photograph in that manner.

Of course the artist should not walk away. Of course, the photographer should feel free to dialog and explain why s/he selected this interpretation.

Should it be different in DPC? I don’t think so.

Frequently, learning is through dialog. A commenter says, for example: “that part of the photo is not sharp It should be sharp.“ Do you think the image maker should say why the image was deliberately not sharp, or should the image maker just tick the box “this comment was(was not) helpful”. It’s easy to do that, but it doesn’t do the commenter any favors.

A teaching experience is when someone questions “why” and another explains why an image is made that way.

That way, you’ve got one of those “win, win” situations.

I suppose it is necessary to add that all this should be done politely.

09/29/2009 09:44:32 PM · #37
Originally posted by sfalice:

Frequently, learning is through dialog. A commenter says, for example: “that part of the photo is not sharp It should be sharp.“ Do you think the image maker should say why the image was deliberately not sharp, or should the image maker just tick the box “this comment was(was not) helpful”.

This is an interesting idea.

I've always been half afraid to talk to someone who calls something out specifically that they think is "wrong" with the image if it's an intentional effect.

I guess it's more because if the "flaw" was important enough to them to make specific mention of it, it would seem that *I* missed conveying the message in their case.

It's taken me a long time to get comfortable with the fact that I cannot please everyone with my image, but I finally do realize that in such a case, I must try to view the image via their perspective, and imagine if perhaps it can be improved.

It's funny, but I've come so far in my ability to receive commentary that I actually feel pleased if I can evoke impressions and/or emotions diametrically opposed with the same image.

I *do* pretty much assume that whatever the comment is, the commenter is giving me their honest impression, and if their opinion is one of a few in a similar vein, I've gotten a chance to rework the image to pull up on a shortfall.....or six! LOL!!!
09/29/2009 10:21:20 PM · #38
Ya Know I think ya'll are on to something. When someone gives me a comment good / bad / indifferent I think that I will ask for deeper analysis of the photo and it might be a better learning environment for both voter and votee. Also If I vote and comment on any of your photos please feel free to pm me and I can possibly explain further what I was talking about.
09/29/2009 10:57:45 PM · #39
"The shadow on his right ***, just above the *** just draws my eye for some reason. Other than that one little flaw, a perfect *** of composition."

"Flaw"?

Considering my lighting was placed to the right to achieve exactly that type of shadow it's almost an insult to hear it referred to as a flaw. On another note the shadow is actually pretty light and so incredibly insignificant, I can't for the life of me see how anyone in their right mind would even notice it.

I'm too often not sure where the problems truly lie...with the image or with the viewer?

But Jeb to see how you could improve something (?), I'd ask for what and for who are you improving anything? Be careful who you listen to.

What I generally find most odd is when you get comments people occasionally are trying to guide you, when quite often, they might be the ones that need the guidance.

I've written people during Challenges but I usually check to see what level they seem to be on and what direction they might be judging my image with. If they are applying their aesthetic values in my direction when I intentionally did something different, for a specific reason I may want to stop them dead in their tracks.

I would almost never change a single choice I've made, unless there was something serious that I missed which didn't show up on my monitor.

I'm all for putting people minds right. Too many folks bring an incredible amount of baggage to their viewing and much of it has no place in the mix. Perhaps their infraction should be addressed as soon as it occurs.

Message edited by author 2009-09-29 23:01:47.
09/29/2009 11:05:10 PM · #40
Originally posted by pawdrix:

... I'm too often not sure where the problems truly lie...with the image or with the viewer?

... What I generally find most odd is when you get comments people occasionally are trying to guide you, when quite often, they might be the ones that need the guidance.

... If they are applying their aesthetic values in my direction when I intentionally did something different, for a specific reason I may want to stop them dead in their tracks.

... Too many folks bring an incredible amount of baggage to their viewing and much of it has no place in the mix. Perhaps their infraction should be addressed as soon as it occurs.

Incredible!

ETA - It must be hard being perfect.

Message edited by author 2009-09-29 23:05:51.
09/29/2009 11:08:30 PM · #41
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

... I'm too often not sure where the problems truly lie...with the image or with the viewer?

Incredible!

ETA - It must be hard being perfect.


Typically you missed my point. You always do.
09/29/2009 11:10:16 PM · #42
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

... I'm too often not sure where the problems truly lie...with the image or with the viewer?

Incredible!

ETA - It must be hard being perfect.

Typically you missed my point. You always do.

Ahhh...but of course.
09/29/2009 11:10:28 PM · #43
Originally posted by pawdrix:

... I'm too often not sure where the problems truly lie...with the image or with the viewer?

... What I generally find most odd is when you get comments people occasionally are trying to guide you, when quite often, they might be the ones that need the guidance.

... If they are applying their aesthetic values in my direction when I intentionally did something different, for a specific reason I may want to stop them dead in their tracks.

... Too many folks bring an incredible amount of baggage to their viewing and much of it has no place in the mix. Perhaps their infraction should be addressed as soon as it occurs.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Incredible!

ETA - It must be hard being perfect.

I took the information as helpful and constructive, and appreciated it.
09/29/2009 11:12:19 PM · #44
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I took the information as helpful and constructive, and appreciated it.

As you are rightly entitled to do so.
09/29/2009 11:13:13 PM · #45
Originally posted by glad2badad:


Ahhh...but of course.


But of course. Are we done?

Message edited by author 2009-09-29 23:13:29.
09/29/2009 11:14:36 PM · #46
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by glad2badad:


Ahhh...but of course.

But of course. Are we done?

I don't know. Send me another PM and we'll see. :-)
09/29/2009 11:18:58 PM · #47

"Everyone and the kitchen sink (yes, I'm opinionated s.o.b. here) is concerned with fixing pictures who are beyond fixing, yet little attention is given to the very models of seeing. How can we move forward, if we don't know where to go and look for the force that creates the kind of photograph that doesn't need correction?"

- zeuszen
09/29/2009 11:19:00 PM · #48
Originally posted by pawdrix:

But Jeb to see how you could improve something (?), I'd ask for what and for who are you improving anything? Be careful who you listen to.

Well, yeah.....

One thing I've learned is to never submit anything that I don't thoroughly believe that I'm happy with the way it is.

That said, I have had people point things out that I've missed entirely.....which I generally find quite amusing.
Originally posted by pawdrix:

What I generally find most odd is when you get comments people occasionally are trying to guide you, when quite often, they might be the ones that need the guidance.

True that......but again, if they see something because they have a different perspective, I want to hear it anyway.

There's nothing I hate worse than missing out on something because I'm in love with an image.....and I become blinded by that.
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I've written people during Challenges but I usually check to see what level they seem to be on and what direction they might be judging my image with. If they are applying their aesthetic values in my direction when I intentionally did something different, for a specific reason I may want to stop them dead in their tracks.

I do that as well......but more from wanting to see on what level the POV is coming from.

I've also noticed that some people can see others' work better than they can convey their own.

I'm okay with that.
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I would almost never change a single choice I've made, unless there was something serious that I missed which didn't show up on my monitor.

Again......I'd rather have the feedback.....just on the off chance that I'm wrong......8>)
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I'm all for putting people minds right. Too many folks bring an incredible amount of baggage to their viewing and much of it has no place in the mix. Perhaps their infraction should be addressed as soon as it occurs.

We differ a little here.....I feel everyone has a right to theior own wrong opinion.....and I don't feel that gives me the right to slap 'em around for it.

If I completely disagree with a comment, or I think it's really out there, I try to just let it go.
09/29/2009 11:24:40 PM · #49
Originally posted by pawdrix:

"Everyone and the kitchen sink (yes, I'm opinionated s.o.b. here) is concerned with fixing pictures who are beyond fixing, yet little attention is given to the very models of seeing. How can we move forward, if we don't know where to go and look for the force that creates the kind of photograph that doesn't need correction?"

- zeuszen

zeus is way cool......8>)
09/29/2009 11:26:51 PM · #50
One of my favorite things is when I receive conflicting opinions on the same aspect of my entry.
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