DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> PM's during challenges
Pages:  
Showing posts 51 - 75 of 148, (reverse)
AuthorThread
09/29/2009 11:29:03 PM · #51
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

If I completely disagree with a comment, or I think it's really out there, I try to just let it go.


Old rant threads are turning in their graves. :P
09/29/2009 11:35:13 PM · #52
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

One of my favorite things is when I receive conflicting opinions on the same aspect of my entry.

I had a recent entry in a local competition, with critique after the judging.

I got positively slammed in voting by the one judge, and a complete chapter and verse afterward as to why he not only judged it down technically, but also why he hated it subjectively.....the image came in dead last in the competition.

I had no less than six people who sought me out after the judging and critique to specifically tell me how they were appalled at how he could have been so wrong about my image.

I figured I had arrived!

One funny aside.....the image was entitled "The Lost Stable". The elder gent who was reading the listing of images misread it and called it "The Last Stable". After this curious turn of events, the image *IS* from that point on, renamed.....8>)
09/29/2009 11:35:55 PM · #53
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

If I completely disagree with a comment, or I think it's really out there, I try to just let it go.


Originally posted by yanko:

Old rant threads are turning in their graves. :P


Bite me, be-atch!.....8>)
09/29/2009 11:43:18 PM · #54
I didn't say slap them around (although that might be a great idea...?).

I enjoy an exchange but again, I'm pretty particular about who I listen to. So, I understand someone making a suggestion but shooting a comment saying "too bad about that" or "this would be better if you did this" is a naive way of approaching commentary. It depends on how it's all stated and better if there's some exchange. The artist might have valid reasons for making their choices so, if things are addressed in advance with that in mind, fewer people will feel the need to respond.

09/29/2009 11:57:31 PM · #55
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I didn't say slap them around (although that might be a great idea...?).

I enjoy an exchange but again, I'm pretty particular about who I listen to. So, I understand someone making a suggestion but shooting a comment saying "too bad about that" or "this would be better if you did this" is a naive way of approaching commentary. It depends on how it's all stated and better if there's some exchange. The artist might have valid reasons for making their choices so, if things are addressed in advance with that in mind, fewer people will feel the need to respond.


Bravo. Nuff said.
09/30/2009 01:31:34 AM · #56
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I didn't say slap them around (although that might be a great idea...?).

I enjoy an exchange but again, I'm pretty particular about who I listen to. So, I understand someone making a suggestion but shooting a comment saying "too bad about that" or "this would be better if you did this" is a naive way of approaching commentary. It depends on how it's all stated and better if there's some exchange. The artist might have valid reasons for making their choices so, if things are addressed in advance with that in mind, fewer people will feel the need to respond.


After reading your last few posts in this thread I think you need to start a website called SPC. You're so brilliant that I'm sure it would be outperforming DPC within months.
09/30/2009 01:40:01 AM · #57
Originally posted by FireBird:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I didn't say slap them around (although that might be a great idea...?).

I enjoy an exchange but again, I'm pretty particular about who I listen to. So, I understand someone making a suggestion but shooting a comment saying "too bad about that" or "this would be better if you did this" is a naive way of approaching commentary. It depends on how it's all stated and better if there's some exchange. The artist might have valid reasons for making their choices so, if things are addressed in advance with that in mind, fewer people will feel the need to respond.


After reading your last few posts in this thread I think you need to start a website called SPC. You're so brilliant that I'm sure it would be outperforming DPC within months.


What a discouraging comment to make about someone who is apparently passionate about his craft. I find his perspective to be quite refreshing and his level of self assurance to be admirable. What is it about his comment that makes you feel the need to patronize him?
09/30/2009 06:56:44 AM · #58
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I didn't say slap them around (although that might be a great idea...?).

I enjoy an exchange but again, I'm pretty particular about who I listen to. So, I understand someone making a suggestion but shooting a comment saying "too bad about that" or "this would be better if you did this" is a naive way of approaching commentary. It depends on how it's all stated and better if there's some exchange. The artist might have valid reasons for making their choices so, if things are addressed in advance with that in mind, fewer people will feel the need to respond.


Just becuase you have a valid reason for doing it doesn't mean it looks good though. If you intentionally create a shadow that the viewer finds disturbing or out of place in the composition, they will more then likely look at that shadow as a flaw to the image. Not a flaw on the photographer! The level of my photography should not be a basis for how you take in the comment. Most people that buy art are not artists, but they feel that they can critique it, because they know what they like and what they don't like. I sound like a broken record but you don't need to be a musician to judge a band, you don't need to be a photographer to critique a photo, and you don't need to be a director/actor to decide if you like a film or not. From a business stand point, I would think the most uninformed opinion is the most important, as the guy who doesn't know about f/stops, film speed, bokeh, whatever, is the guy that more than likely will be buying my work, and if my work isn't hitting the mark with them...well shit.

/rant
09/30/2009 09:01:58 AM · #59
Originally posted by AJSullivan:

[quote=pawdrix] I didn't say slap them around (although that might be a great idea...?).

Just becuase you have a valid reason for doing it doesn't mean it looks good though. If you intentionally create a shadow that the viewer finds disturbing or out of place in the composition, they will more then likely look at that shadow as a flaw to the image. Not a flaw on the photographer! The level of my photography should not be a basis for how you take in the comment. Most people that buy art are not artists, but they feel that they can critique it, because they know what they like and what they don't like. I sound like a broken record but you don't need to be a musician to judge a band, you don't need to be a photographer to critique a photo, and you don't need to be a director/actor to decide if you like a film or not. From a business stand point, I would think the most uninformed opinion is the most important, as the guy who doesn't know about f/stops, film speed, bokeh, whatever, is the guy that more than likely will be buying my work, and if my work isn't hitting the mark with them...well shit.

/rant


I find myself in the awkward position is disagreeing with just about every point you've made.

I can say this though. I'm not that interested in the opinions of a less educated viewer. They are usually not the people who buy my work and catering to them, I don't find fulfilling and more important counterproductive. If your "business" is appealing to the uninformed, go with God.

People are certainly entitled to their opinion but tossing them around like pennies is another issue altogether. If you proffer an artless opinion don't be surprised if someone proffers one right back.

I don't care much whether or not people like something. That's not my business and you can't win'em all but there are experts in every field. I'll assume if you're not that familiar with Classical Music it might not be prudent to send a conductor a critical note after listening to a concert in the park.

I grew up with Michael Beinhorn (look at the list of people he produced) and if you're in a Rock band, he's the man you listen to. Red Hot Chili Peppers, Korn, Soundgarden, Marilyn Manson, Soul Asylum...this guy owned the late 80's and 90's and I'm sure plenty of people didn't like the bands he produced and had critical opinions to offer, as well but to them I'd say "fine...move on". Millions of people have opinions but how many really count or have value?

There's a heavily Twittered site "shitmydadsays" which is quite funny but the second quote sums it up pretty well.

"Do these announcers ever shut the f**k up? Don't ever say stuff just because you think you should. That's the definition of an asshole."

It's brilliant and I should probably follow what he says. lolololol

All for now.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 09:45:16.
09/30/2009 09:08:15 AM · #60
Nevermind. I don't even know how to respond to that, as it makes very little sense to me.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 09:10:33.
09/30/2009 09:31:47 AM · #61
Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Nevermind. I don't even know how to respond to that, as it makes very little sense to me.


it actually makes lots of sense.

As a painter, had lots of this experience, people commenting about changes they would want to see in a painting.

A painting composition is lot of hard work. First step is vision, then research about it. Then actually painting it.

Then comes viewer who likes it but wants to fit in. He also wants some changes because this way it might look good to him.
And a poor painter me who thinks whose painting is it anyway. Mine or his??

I am little arrogant but to really have discussion on my subject, i really want at least an equal. Not someone who just happens to be viewing it.
09/30/2009 09:43:38 AM · #62
Cheers!

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 09:44:12.
09/30/2009 09:43:50 AM · #63
Sounds like a few folks around here, that have photography skills so far above the ordinary viewer/commenter on DPChallenge, may be interested in revisiting threads such as these:

The NO COMMENT Flag for Challenge Entries...

No Comments for YOU!
09/30/2009 09:49:47 AM · #64
Its official, you can't win on this site.

If you don't comment, people complain that you voted without a comment, or that their image has no comments.

If you comment negatively, then people say your comments are unfounded and that they don't want comments like that, or that you aren't in a position to make such comments, or you don't even enter challenges, how would you know, etc.

So when people are fishing for comments, they should be flat out and say "Please tell me what I want to hear regarding this picture" or "Would someone who has been a pro photographer for 20 years with a net profit of at least 135k per year and 1520 Red Ribbons please comment, all others: bite your tongue"

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 09:50:39.
09/30/2009 09:52:41 AM · #65
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Sounds like a few folks around here, that have photography skills so far above the ordinary viewer/commenter on DPChallenge, may be interested in revisiting threads such as these:

The NO COMMENT Flag for Challenge Entries...

No Comments for YOU!


NOBODY IS SAYING THAT THEIR SKILLS ARE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSES!

You are missing the point. But again, we've established that.

As ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', '/') + 1) . ' zxaar put it...

We state our goals, as artists and people often comment and convey their goals, what they want to see or how they want to see it, which is irrelevant. Many people also comment on things from a commercial viewpoint when NOT every image strives towards commercial potential.

What's so hard to understand?

"Its official, you can't win on this site. "

No, just that people should learn to be far more mindful about what they say or how they say it and learn to recognize different perspectives from the artist. Nobody's denying the viewer their perspective they should just have a greater sense of self and the weight or lack of their opinions might carry.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 10:02:15.
09/30/2009 10:17:31 AM · #66
Originally posted by pawdrix:

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT THEIR SKILLS ARE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSES!

Well, it kind of sounds that way.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

... I'm not that interested in the opinions of a less educated viewer.

... People are certainly entitled to their opinion but tossing them around like pennies is another issue altogether. If you proffer an artless opinion don't be surprised if someone proffers one right back.

... Millions of people have opinions but how many really count or have value?

... I enjoy an exchange but again, I'm pretty particular about who I listen to.

... I'm all for putting people minds right. Too many folks bring an incredible amount of baggage to their viewing and much of it has no place in the mix. Perhaps their infraction should be addressed as soon as it occurs.

Originally posted by zxaar:

... I am little arrogant but to really have discussion on my subject, i really want at least an equal. Not someone who just happens to be viewing it.
09/30/2009 10:30:08 AM · #67
Originally posted by glad2badad:

[quote=pawdrix]NOBODY IS SAYING THAT THEIR SKILLS ARE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSES!

Well, it kind of sounds that way.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

... I'm not that interested in the opinions of a less educated viewer.



A very key word there is "viewer" NOT photographer. There are many wonderful critics and commenters that aren't necessarily, even by their own admission the best photographers.

I spent most of yesterday reading John Szarkowski's, Looking at Photographs and while I think he's a pretty bad photographer, there's nobody I would rather speak to on the subject more than him.

"The fact that one may misunderstand the content of a picture is of no concern to the picture, which leads it's own life independent of our interpretations."

-John Szarkowski

JS interview with Chalie Rose. If you watch this you might agree with me about his photography but his words are incredible.

Originally posted by zxaar:

I am little arrogant but to really have discussion on my subject, i really want at least an equal. Not someone who just happens to be viewing it.


There are people here that go to exhibits, read mountains of material pertaining to photography, study thousands of images a week...shoot endlessly and I'll venture to guess that's who zxaar might be referring in terms "an equal". Again, it's not necessarily about technical merit or skill but a degree of depth.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 11:31:00.
09/30/2009 01:01:21 PM · #68
Originally posted by Ivo:



What a discouraging comment to make about someone who is apparently passionate about his craft. I find his perspective to be quite refreshing and his level of self assurance to be admirable. What is it about his comment that makes you feel the need to patronize him?


What is patronizing about saying he should start Street Photography challenge?
09/30/2009 01:15:42 PM · #69
One problem I see is that some people insist on treating work here like it's in a Gallery setting, to the exclusion of all else. Where they are putting their work up, believing it's the best it can be, and just want people to appreciate it for what it is.

Then, inevitably, they clash with the people that treat work on here as if it's in a contest, which, you know, much of it IS.

There's a fundamental difference to showing your work, and having your work in a judged competition. Especially when the judges generally have their own work in the same competition.

Neither thing is wrong in its own right, but the commenters are always going to run into this problem, because there will always be the two camps (and others). Pawdrix doesn't care for comments outside of his specifications, but that doesn't mean that the comments he doesn't appreciate aren't helpful to many others.

The best advice in this thread is to simply comment the way you want to, and screw what the photographers think about it. You'll make some happy, you'll piss some off, but commenting is for YOU, not them, so find your style and let it fly.
09/30/2009 01:20:05 PM · #70
Originally posted by FireBird:

Originally posted by Ivo:



What a discouraging comment to make about someone who is apparently passionate about his craft. I find his perspective to be quite refreshing and his level of self assurance to be admirable. What is it about his comment that makes you feel the need to patronize him?


What is patronizing about saying he should start Street Photography challenge?


Consider the remote possibility that you sounded like an arse.
09/30/2009 01:22:27 PM · #71
Personally, I'd always rather have a comment from someone like Steve who I know will never blow smoke up my skirt, who also has the skills and experience he does as an accomplished photog.

I will admit that I have more compassion, and will more often err to the side of caution when writing off an opinion of someone who doesn't necessarily have a high scoring average or lots opf history here.

But that's only because I stunk soooooooo badly when I got here that I remember.....8>)
09/30/2009 01:24:12 PM · #72
Originally posted by Ivo:

What a discouraging comment to make about someone who is apparently passionate about his craft. I find his perspective to be quite refreshing and his level of self assurance to be admirable. What is it about his comment that makes you feel the need to patronize him?


Originally posted by FireBird:

What is patronizing about saying he should start Street Photography challenge?


Originally posted by Ivo:

Consider the remote possibility that you sounded like an arse.

You silver-tongued devil, you!.....8>)
09/30/2009 01:29:19 PM · #73
Originally posted by pawdrix:

There are people here that go to exhibits, read mountains of material pertaining to photography, study thousands of images a week...shoot endlessly and I'll venture to guess that's who zxaar might be referring in terms "an equal". Again, it's not necessarily about technical merit or skill but a degree of depth.

But what about the rest of us?

I will *never* be on the same level historically, technically, and artistically as you. I'm okay with that, too, because I am not willing to spend the time and money to become a master of this craft.....I just want to be competent.

But the best, and easiest way for me to do that is to be in the same arena, hopefully, getting the occasional pearl, and putting it into practice.

That's how I've come as far as I have, and will continue to do so.

But I've also learned how to take the criticism (At least as it pertains to PHOTOGRAPHY! LOL!!!) so that I can use it to move forward instead of looking for a personal slight. Short of personal abuse, I don't care if you slice my offering to ribbons, as long as you tell me WHY it sucks.
09/30/2009 01:29:28 PM · #74
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

... The best advice in this thread is to simply comment the way you want to, and screw what the photographers think about it. You'll make some happy, you'll piss some off, but commenting is for YOU, not them, so find your style and let it fly.

Agreed. My first post in this thread:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

...the point is, say what you're comfortable with and don't worry about the fallout. Some people here will never be happy, and some are always easily pleased. In the end - be yourself.
09/30/2009 01:34:02 PM · #75
Originally posted by FireBird:

Originally posted by Ivo:



What a discouraging comment to make about someone who is apparently passionate about his craft. I find his perspective to be quite refreshing and his level of self assurance to be admirable. What is it about his comment that makes you feel the need to patronize him?


What is patronizing about saying he should start Street Photography challenge?


Originally posted by FireBird:

You're so brilliant that I'm sure it would be outperforming DPC within months.


Possibly the "you're so brilliant" part could be seen as patronizing, don't ya think(?) but I don't care.

I'm not stating my brilliance only that peoples opinions don't matter to me. Apparently it's difficult for some to digest but I'm only pointing out, that not everybody is searching, entering Challenges or posting images because they are seeking technical advice or opinions regarding people likes and dislikes. It's quite simple and if people comment with that in mind, everyone might be better off. It's a smarter stance to take.

I'm not sure why people are having trouble understanding that...?

As a photographer, I'm not trying to clone other peoples images so for example, when someone tells me where I failed in my cloning it's a bit naive, don't you think? I'm trying explain the banality of it and where people could possibly rethink their role as commentators.

Some people are trying to redefine or explore different aesthetic values. They might be showing you a different side of beauty or attempting to enlarge your world and NOT constantly repeat what you already know about it. There's room for that here on DPC...no?
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 08/03/2021 08:47:20 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2021 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 08/03/2021 08:47:20 PM EDT.