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09/30/2009 01:38:05 PM · #76
I think the reason that its hard to fathom "that you don't care about thier opinions" is that you are posting your images on a site for people to vote if they like on it or not so you can win a ribbon. I think if you truly didn't care what people thought, you wouldn't be doing that.

Also - got your PM, and see where your coming from, just was hard to follow.
09/30/2009 01:38:11 PM · #77
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Some people are trying to redefine or explore different aesthetic values. They might be showing you a different side of beauty or attempting to enlarge your world and NOT constantly repeat what you already know about it. There's room for that here on DPC...no?

There's a thought......8>)
09/30/2009 01:44:19 PM · #78
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

... The best advice in this thread is to simply comment the way you want to...


Well, I would say think before you comment is the best advice, look at an image for more than 5 seconds if you wish to say something and learn to appreciate other models of thinking before speaking.

Don't assume that everyone is looking for technical advice, might be another respectable starting point before you comment.

There's nothing unfair or over the top about either of those suggestions and to the OP, there might be avoided conflict and a higher level of discourse.

09/30/2009 01:47:50 PM · #79
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Don't assume that everyone is looking for technical advice,

And be darn sure you know what you're talking about if you do comment in regards to a technical issue.

I loved it when I got this scathing comment about the dodging & burning I did on a particular image one time.......before I knew what that was or had PS.

That was pretty funny, actually......8>)
09/30/2009 01:48:35 PM · #80
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

... The best advice in this thread is to simply comment the way you want to...

Well, I would say think before you comment is the best advice, look at an image for more than 5 seconds if you wish to say something and learn to appreciate other models of thinking before speaking.

Don't assume that everyone is looking for technical advice, might be another respectable starting point before you comment.

There's nothing unfair or over the top about either of those suggestions and to the OP, there might be avoided conflict and a higher level of discourse.

And to those that post entries in a challenge, they need to understand that a wide range of comments can possibly be received and just live with it (within site rules of course). The onus is on the receiver of comments to be accepting of the diversity of this site.
09/30/2009 01:52:58 PM · #81
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

... The best advice in this thread is to simply comment the way you want to...


Well, I would say think before you comment is the best advice, look at an image for more than 5 seconds if you wish to say something and learn to appreciate other models of thinking before speaking.

Don't assume that everyone is looking for technical advice, might be another respectable starting point before you comment.

There's nothing unfair or over the top about either of those suggestions and to the OP, there might be avoided conflict and a higher level of discourse.


Originally posted by AJSullivan:

I think the reason that its hard to fathom "that you don't care about thier opinions" is that you are posting your images on a site for people to vote if they like on it or not so you can win a ribbon. I think if you truly didn't care what people thought, you wouldn't be doing that.

Also - got your PM, and see where your coming from, just was hard to follow.


AJ-It's like people who run marathons...Not everybody is in to win. There are other reasons to play.

I play here because I want to know if I connect and to see where or how I connected. That's fun and it's as simple as that. No disrespect to anyone who doesn't like my work it just doesn't do me any good whatsoever to hear it.

There are people here who are having fun and there are many who are going pro or view this as a very serious hobby that they are extremely passionate about. The latter are the ones who will drive this site and elevate it to a level of respectability...especially in terms of image quality. There's plenty of room for everybody but if people just wing around comments and believe that folks should just grin and bare it they might be underestimating the force that keep this place alive and competitive. It's more a matter of respect and understanding....

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 14:01:41.
09/30/2009 02:01:51 PM · #82
Originally posted by pawdrix:

... No disrespect to anyone who doesn't like my work it just doesn't do me any good whatsoever to hear it.

Unfortunately for you, it comes with the territory around here.

Borrowed the following quote (bold added for emphasis) from this thread (The NO COMMENT Flag for Challenge Entries...):

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by phylsy7:

I rarely give comments because I don't know the technical aspects. I only know what I like and what I don't like.

And posting what you like (or don't like) is exactly what the comment box is for -- no one else here is qualified to express your reaction.

Let me also reiterate something I and many others here have noticed over the years, that you learn far more about making a good picture from the comments you make than from those you receive.
09/30/2009 02:04:45 PM · #83
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I play here because I want to know if I connect and to see where or how I connected. That's fun and it's as simple as that. No disrespect to anyone who doesn't like my work it just doesn't do me any good whatsoever to hear it.

I look less for approval than genuine feedback. I really don't necessarily want the technical advice, I want to know why you like/don't like my image. I want the gut impression, not "You need to burn that_____, and remove that _______________, it's distracting.
09/30/2009 02:05:56 PM · #84
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I play here because I want to know if I connect and to see where or how I connected. That's fun and it's as simple as that. No disrespect to anyone who doesn't like my work it just doesn't do me any good whatsoever to hear it.

I doubt voters are looking for connections, or voting based solely on how much of a connection they feel. If they did, there'd be a few 9s and 10s and a whole lot of 1s and 2s.
09/30/2009 02:07:11 PM · #85
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

... The best advice in this thread is to simply comment the way you want to...

Well, I would say think before you comment is the best advice, look at an image for more than 5 seconds if you wish to say something and learn to appreciate other models of thinking before speaking.

Don't assume that everyone is looking for technical advice, might be another respectable starting point before you comment.

There's nothing unfair or over the top about either of those suggestions and to the OP, there might be avoided conflict and a higher level of discourse.

And to those that post entries in a challenge, they need to understand that a wide range of comments can possibly be received and just live with it (within site rules of course). The onus is on the receiver of comments to be accepting of the diversity of this site.


Exactly.

Pawdrix: As you would like people to stop assuming things, you must stop assuming that people leaving certain comments are doing so by skimming through each photo less than 5 seconds and not thinking before the comment. I can sit and contemplate an image for 4 hours, but if my thought is still "I don't like that shadow and think it would be better without it", that's MY thought, and I have every right to say it, and you have every right to ignore it.

Just as you say, there's room on DPC for photographers that aren't trying to be cut-and-mold, but there is also room for commenters of all types, with the exception of anyone being outright hurtful, or etc.

On a personal note, I don't give a lickety-split of a rat's ass whether or not the photographer *intended* for something in their photo when it's in a challenge. If I don't like it, or I think I might like it another way, I'm saying so. If you don't like what I say, that's your business, but it doesn't affect me at all. I'll give you the score I want to give you, and that's that.

There's room for it ALL on DPC, and just because you won't listen to someone telling you that they don't like an aspect of your photo or that something might look better changed, doesn't mean another photographer won't sit there and go, "you know what, I think I'll try that suggestion."
09/30/2009 02:17:25 PM · #86
Originally posted by george917:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I play here because I want to know if I connect and to see where or how I connected. That's fun and it's as simple as that. No disrespect to anyone who doesn't like my work it just doesn't do me any good whatsoever to hear it.

I doubt voters are looking for connections, or voting based solely on how much of a connection they feel. If they did, there'd be a few 9s and 10s and a whole lot of 1s and 2s.

You'd be surprised, then. I DO tend to vote based on a connection a lot of the time. Sure, there's the challenge bit and I take that into consideration. I will reward those photographs that clearly meet the challenge and do so in a competent and complete fashion (taking into account basics of good photography, etc) but I will MORE STRONGLY reward those photographs with which I connect. That's why I hang here and that's why I vote. To find those. :-)
09/30/2009 02:30:39 PM · #87
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

...you must stop assuming that people leaving certain comments are doing so by skimming through each photo less than 5 seconds and not thinking before the comment. I can sit and contemplate an image for 4 hours, but if my thought is still "I don't like that shadow and think it would be better without it", that's MY thought, and I have every right to say it, and you have every right to ignore it.



Two things...(maybe three)

I'm not assuming people look at images for 5 seconds give or take, that's a fact and it's been discussed and admitted to here many, many times over the years and only partially relative to the point I'm making. I'm guilty of that myself. Don't dig into that one too deeply...

I've said this more times than I like to recall but I never questioned "Your right" to speak. I hope I don't have to say that again. What I'm addressing is people having the intelligence not to speak OR better yet, thinking before they speak. Clear?

If I don't like something I just move on because it's possible the photographer doesn't a "lickety-split of a rat's ass" what I think and nor should they. Who cares what I think? Who cares what you think? If the photographer is smart he'd be smart to tell me to piss off and stick to his guns. Why you or anyone feels the need to tell people they don't like something is beyond me...although YES they do have the right to say so. Save us...

I don't mind one on one or group discussion about my or anybodys work as that's the proper way to do it. That's constructive but we're not talking about that...

Constructive, well thought out opinions are fine but to what extent is the piss-ant stuff genuinely helpful? How much crap do you need to digest before you get it? Is it it possible that after a point it's more of a hindrance? Have you considered that?

Shoot what you shoot. Show confidence in what you shoot. Develop and explore what it is that you like to shoot. Seek the advice and criticism of trusted individuals that you know, respect and understand you. Most important, stop trying to appease the entire planet an then you might move onto something.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 14:46:55.
09/30/2009 02:38:19 PM · #88
"if the photographer is smart he'd be smart to tell me to piss off"

Piss Off.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 14:38:59.
09/30/2009 02:48:19 PM · #89
I'm gonna risk sounding like an asshole here, but don't take it personally.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

What I'm addressing is people having the intelligence not to speak OR better yet thinking before they speak. Clear?

You did start by talking about "people having the intelligence not to speak." That's just rude.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

If I don't like something I just move on because it's possible the photographer doesn't a "lickety-split of a rat's ass" what I think

Then you're against the very nature of the site. People generally learn a lot more from their mistakes than their achievements, so pointing out the bad is more valuable than pointing out the good. The possibility of a photographer not giving a "lickety-split of a rat's ass" is a risk you're taking whether your comment is positive or negative, anyway. Most of the time, I don't care about what worked for you, because I intended it to work for you. I'd rather know what didn't work, so I don't do it again.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

and nor should they. Who cares what I think?

I do. I want you to tell me how you feel about my image, and what could have improved it.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Who cares what you think?

I would hope you care what I think, since you submitted your image to a contest in which people do two things - rate and comment.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

If the photographer is smart he'd be smart to tell me to piss off and stick to his guns.

No, then he'd be hard-headed and ignorant.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Why you or anyone feels the need to tell people they don't like something is beyond me...

Again, most photographers are here to improve. They want to know what they did wrong so they don't make the same mistake next time. The reason I tell the photographer why I don't like something is so that (s)he can improve. Even on the best images, I still try to leave some constructive criticism because most people are here to improve.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I don't mind one on one or group discussion about my or anybodys work as that's the proper way to do it. That's constructive but we're not talking about that...

Yes we are. We're talking about comments on images, to which you have a right to respond by sending a PM and continuing the discussion. A comment is the beginning of a group discussion.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 14:51:21.
09/30/2009 02:50:53 PM · #90
Originally posted by roby21112:

"if the photographer is smart he'd be smart to tell me to piss off"

Piss Off.


I'll see you later at The Kettle for a beer?

...and then I can tell you personally where to stuff your "piss off". One on one...mano a mano!

George-I agree that well thought out comments are good and helpful.

If you do have any images of yours you'd like to discuss let me know and I'll happily tell you what I think. If you're interested in my opinion on the technicals let me know but I won't automatically assume that's what you want to hear. If I know what you are trying to show then I might be able to share how I would have approached the subject but I won't try and fix an image without prior understanding.

Originally posted by george917:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

If the photographer is smart he'd be smart to tell me to piss off and stick to his guns.


No, then he'd be hard-headed and ignorant.


"Ignorant"? Nahhhhhh....

I'm just trying to celebrate the Picasso that's in all of us if we stop getting bogged down in other peoples baggage.

Now, if a 100 people like or love one of your images and find it interesting, stimulating, whatever...What's the value of me telling you that I don't find it interesting or saying that "this doesn't work for me"? So, what if I don't. One hundred other people did and they are the ones who count, NOT me because you can't win'em all, right? That's the type of opinion I will try and refrain from giving and would prefer not hearing, if that's more clear?

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 15:12:17.
09/30/2009 03:16:29 PM · #91
Just out of curiousity, if you don't want to hear about tecnhicals, and you don't care if someone likes it or not, what kind of comment would you prefer to read?
09/30/2009 03:21:11 PM · #92
If I honestly thought you wanted 'intelligent discourse' pawdrix, I'd engage in some with you, but you've shown more often than not that 'discourse' to you means 'listen to what I say and agree with it'.

Enough said.
09/30/2009 03:27:48 PM · #93
Dear me, caused a bit of a stir haven't I? I have only ever had one PM. Not abusive or rude, but not within the boundaries of an anonymous challenge. I have left very positive comments as well. Never had a PM thanking me, wouldn't want one, just hope that the entrant would feel as I do when receiving it!! Thoroughly elated. Peoples perceptions of photographs are very different, subjective I think is the word. I try not to be rude, (think i may have been tho, a couple of pictures I have found quite offensive) Ironically the one in (PM pic) question is quite good, just does not quite MC. Sorry if I caused upset or offense to anyone (Frank) not intentional. Will try to redress the balance with a 'more constructive' comments in the future.
09/30/2009 03:30:36 PM · #94
Originally posted by lyn100:

Dear me, caused a bit of a stir haven't I? I have only ever had one PM. Not abusive or rude, but not within the boundaries of an anonymous challenge. I have left very positive comments as well. Never had a PM thanking me, wouldn't want one, just hope that the entrant would feel as I do when receiving it!! Thoroughly elated. Peoples perceptions of photographs are very different, subjective I think is the word. I try not to be rude, (think i may have been tho, a couple of pictures I have found quite offensive) Ironically the one in (PM pic) question is quite good, just does not quite MC. Sorry if I caused upset or offense to anyone (Frank) not intentional. Will try to redress the balance with a 'more constructive' comments in the future.


You'll find that pretty much everything causes a stir around here :)
09/30/2009 03:32:47 PM · #95
Originally posted by lyn100:

... Peoples perceptions of photographs are very different, subjective I think is the word. ...

And there's the hidden treasure in your last post. :-) ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30000-34999/30049/800/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_763011.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30000-34999/30049/800/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_763011.gif', '/') + 1) . '
09/30/2009 03:35:30 PM · #96
Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Just out of curiousity, if you don't want to hear about tecnhicals, and you don't care if someone likes it or not, what kind of comment would you prefer to read?


I just want to know that I've communicated with someone.
09/30/2009 03:40:02 PM · #97
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Just out of curiousity, if you don't want to hear about tecnhicals, and you don't care if someone likes it or not, what kind of comment would you prefer to read?


I just want to know that I've communicated with someone.


You know that as soon as someone comments on your photo, REGARDLESS of what that comment is. Do you not see that?
09/30/2009 03:40:54 PM · #98
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

If I honestly thought you wanted 'intelligent discourse' pawdrix, I'd engage in some with you, but you've shown more often than not that 'discourse' to you means 'listen to what I say and agree with it'.

Enough said.


Yea Steve you arrogant ass. Hows 5:30 sound?
09/30/2009 03:46:03 PM · #99
i think we need to look into buddy voting with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' roby21112 and ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', '/') + 1) . ' k10DGuy
09/30/2009 03:53:40 PM · #100
Originally posted by BeefnCheez:

i think we need to look into buddy voting with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' roby21112 and ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', '/') + 1) . ' k10DGuy


Don't I need to actually enter challenges?
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