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09/30/2009 03:55:01 PM · #101
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by BeefnCheez:

i think we need to look into buddy voting with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' roby21112 and ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', '/') + 1) . ' k10DGuy


Don't I need to actually enter challenges?


Great post, gets a 10 from me.
09/30/2009 03:56:36 PM · #102
I just read the title this thread as PMS During Challenges.

That could open up a whole 'nuther discussion. :P
09/30/2009 03:57:30 PM · #103
Originally posted by karmat:

I just read the title this thread as PMS During Challenges.

That could open up a whole 'nuther discussion. :P


With some of the replies in here, I think its already happening.
09/30/2009 03:58:34 PM · #104
Sorry peeps:(
09/30/2009 04:07:08 PM · #105
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Just out of curiousity, if you don't want to hear about tecnhicals, and you don't care if someone likes it or not, what kind of comment would you prefer to read?


I just want to know that I've communicated with someone.


You know that as soon as someone comments on your photo, REGARDLESS of what that comment is. Do you not see that?


Does every single person on the planet love you? Probably not (don't mean to point that out as a slight).

Does it pay to know exactly who those people are that don't like you? Probably not.

I see images the same way. Not everyone will like what I've done and I won't like everyone elses work BUT I can devote energy and attention to those I do connect with.

I don't need sunshine blow up my butt, I have a pretty tough skin although like people or friends, knowing precisely who doesn't like me in a room is wasted energy.

K10-Many well respected photographers have left this site on a dime over comments and that's worth considering. To say people should just learn to bare it and be cool isn't discourse. All I've been saying is that people take their work personally and respect of their different vantage points should be considered when commenting. I'm taking the time to give you my vantage point and asking that you try and understand it and hopefully respect it.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 16:09:13.
09/30/2009 04:07:22 PM · #106
Originally posted by lyn100:

Sorry peeps:(


nononono, don't be sorry. :) I'm just impressed that it has stayed almost on topic this long and hasn't resulted in anyone throwing anything, yet.
09/30/2009 04:14:51 PM · #107
Originally posted by pawdrix:

... respect of their different vantage points should be considered when commenting. ...

Respect of different vantage points should be considered when receiving comments also.

Bottom line - if you enter a photo in a DPChallenge contest, you are going to get comments. You can mark them helpful, you can ignore them, you can respond to them - but you can't stop them, no matter how much you don't want general comments from the community at large here that may or may not see your photography at the same level that you do.
09/30/2009 04:47:34 PM · #108
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Just out of curiousity, if you don't want to hear about tecnhicals, and you don't care if someone likes it or not, what kind of comment would you prefer to read?


I just want to know that I've communicated with someone.


You know that as soon as someone comments on your photo, REGARDLESS of what that comment is. Do you not see that?


Does every single person on the planet love you? Probably not (don't mean to point that out as a slight).

Does it pay to know exactly who those people are that don't like you? Probably not.

I see images the same way. Not everyone will like what I've done and I won't like everyone elses work BUT I can devote energy and attention to those I do connect with.

I don't need sunshine blow up my butt, I have a pretty tough skin although like people or friends, knowing precisely who doesn't like me in a room is wasted energy.

K10-Many well respected photographers have left this site on a dime over comments and that's worth considering. To say people should just learn to bare it and be cool isn't discourse. All I've been saying is that people take their work personally and respect of their different vantage points should be considered when commenting. I'm taking the time to give you my vantage point and asking that you try and understand it and hopefully respect it.


If these well-respected photographers left this site on a dime over comments, the only thing worth considering is why they were so tissue-paper fragile to begin with.
09/30/2009 04:52:20 PM · #109
I still consider myself to be a complete beginner at photography, much as I love it, I know full well some of my pics are terrible but I like them, birds and wildlife are what I like to photograph, my husband constantly berates me for trying to get the 'impossible' shot, but I keep trying, It's what I like to do. If you want to tell me my photo is crap, feel free. I don't care, for me it is probably the 'best' shot I have of that particular subject. (It's ridiculous, the time I spent trying to get a decent picture of a heron) However, the cry during the challenges is 'comment, comment, comment' so we do, then people get pi!!ed, because we don't say what they want to hear!!! Rock - Hard Place.
09/30/2009 04:58:54 PM · #110
Originally posted by lyn100:

I still consider myself to be a complete beginner at photography, much as I love it, I know full well some of my pics are terrible but I like them, birds and wildlife are what I like to photograph, my husband constantly berates me for trying to get the 'impossible' shot, but I keep trying, It's what I like to do. If you want to tell me my photo is crap, feel free. I don't care, for me it is probably the 'best' shot I have of that particular subject. (It's ridiculous, the time I spent trying to get a decent picture of a heron) However, the cry during the challenges is 'comment, comment, comment' so we do, then people get pi!!ed, because we don't say what they want to hear!!! Rock - Hard Place.


If I want you to leave a room I can either fart or politely ask you to leave. Both accomplish the same thing yet one is considered to be more intelligent. Get the point?
09/30/2009 04:59:59 PM · #111
Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by lyn100:

I still consider myself to be a complete beginner at photography, much as I love it, I know full well some of my pics are terrible but I like them, birds and wildlife are what I like to photograph, my husband constantly berates me for trying to get the 'impossible' shot, but I keep trying, It's what I like to do. If you want to tell me my photo is crap, feel free. I don't care, for me it is probably the 'best' shot I have of that particular subject. (It's ridiculous, the time I spent trying to get a decent picture of a heron) However, the cry during the challenges is 'comment, comment, comment' so we do, then people get pi!!ed, because we don't say what they want to hear!!! Rock - Hard Place.


If I want you to leave a room I can either fart or politely ask you to leave. Both accomplish the same thing yet one is considered to be more intelligent. Get the point?


I don't get the point. Are you telling her to leave?
09/30/2009 05:01:26 PM · #112
Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by lyn100:

I still consider myself to be a complete beginner at photography, much as I love it, I know full well some of my pics are terrible but I like them, birds and wildlife are what I like to photograph, my husband constantly berates me for trying to get the 'impossible' shot, but I keep trying, It's what I like to do. If you want to tell me my photo is crap, feel free. I don't care, for me it is probably the 'best' shot I have of that particular subject. (It's ridiculous, the time I spent trying to get a decent picture of a heron) However, the cry during the challenges is 'comment, comment, comment' so we do, then people get pi!!ed, because we don't say what they want to hear!!! Rock - Hard Place.


If I want you to leave a room I can either fart or politely ask you to leave. Both accomplish the same thing yet one is considered to be more intelligent. Get the point?


I don't get the point. Are you telling her to leave?


Wow, I need to bring out the crayons here huh? No, I'm telling people not to fart.
09/30/2009 05:02:07 PM · #113
If I want you to leave a room I can either fart or politely ask you to leave. Both accomplish the same thing yet one is considered to be more intelligent. Get the point?

You can be as rude as you like. It's not a problem. You didn't understand my point from the first, probably never will.
09/30/2009 05:03:10 PM · #114
How do I get it to come up in italics? Do I need a crayon?
09/30/2009 05:04:01 PM · #115
Originally posted by lyn100:

If I want you to leave a room I can either fart or politely ask you to leave. Both accomplish the same thing yet one is considered to be more intelligent. Get the point?

You can be as rude as you like. It's not a problem. You didn't understand my point from the first, probably never will.


Are you saying I should have put more thought into my comment on your response? ;-)

09/30/2009 05:04:11 PM · #116
Originally posted by lyn100:

How do I get it to come up in italics? Do I need a crayon?
09/30/2009 05:04:32 PM · #117
got it.
09/30/2009 05:39:13 PM · #118
My two cents:

I can see why Steve is frustrated and others are as well. However, whether you like it or not there are two kinds of entries in these challenges.

The Art Entry

This is the entry that uses the challenge theme as inspiration, a jumping off point to say something meaningful and personal or to reveal something about the world around us. Such an entry if submitted in say a Self Portrait challenge may not even show a person in the photo. A good example of this is ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Bear_Music's self portrait entry:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/308/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_146162.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/308/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_146162.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Now this scored a 3.4696 because frankly the voters couldn't see or chose not to. If however, you did then you would have learned far more about Robert than any of his other portraits combined. It was the most revealing portrait entered in that challenge and thus the best one. It's important to know that if you want to be more than just a button pusher.

The Commercial Entry

This is the entry that uses the challenge theme as a testing ground to becoming a professional photographer and by that I mean the kind that gets paid. The challenge theme is viewed like a box. The smaller it is the better because that forces you to be more creative in order to stand out while still trying to meet the client's needs and win the contract. A good example of this are the photos by ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/17203.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/17203.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Scalvert who is a master of this.

Now there is room for both but it starts with accepting they exist and respecting their place and looking out for the differences. When you leave a comment on an art photo that is only beneficial for a commercial one (like the kind Steve rants about) it reveals your ignorance and does nothing to help you or the photographer advance. Now there is certainly a learning opportunity but that only comes if you take the time to learn the photographer's purpose. At first you may need to ask the photographer but over time you should be able to see it in the photos for yourself.

Lastly, let me add commercial entries don't always get their fair shake too. It makes no sense to trash a product shot on the grounds that it isn't meaningful enough. You should be concern with the craftsmanship, creativity and how well it communicates the challenge topic.

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 17:57:00.
09/30/2009 06:26:50 PM · #119
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Now, if a 100 people like or love one of your images and find it interesting, stimulating, whatever...What's the value of me telling you that I don't find it interesting or saying that "this doesn't work for me"? So, what if I don't. One hundred other people did and they are the ones who count, NOT me because you can't win'em all, right? That's the type of opinion I will try and refrain from giving and would prefer not hearing, if that's more clear?

On this site, in this context, you are more valuable to me than those 100 people. I come to this site to improve. Tell me, what's easier:

a) I get a bunch of low scores in one type of image, let's say a single car driving by at high speed. I keep getting low scores and no comments, and I keep the same technique. All of a sudden, I think to myself "I'm not connecting with people. Let's try doing something a little different." So I think mathematically and I decide I have 3 variables that I can change that have to do with the way I take the picture - shutter speed, aperture, ISO - and I can change 2 at a time. The current settings are 1/125 sec, f/8, ISO-200. Thus, I have 6 combinations:

1/250 sec, f/5.6, ISO-200
1/60 sec, f/11, ISO-200
1/250 sec, f/8, ISO-400
1/60 sec, f/8, ISO-100
1/125 sec, f/5.6, ISO-100
1/125 sec, f/11, ISO-400

I try them out in different challenges, and in the end, I get the best score using the fifth one. So I repeat that technique for the next challenge, and my score plummets. I realize that I got the best score using the fifth one because the fifth one was submitted to a challenge called "Speed" and nobody else submitted a speeding car so mine was good compared to others; I decide that since the votes were skewed there, I'll take the second-best technique and try that - let's say it's the second one, with a smaller aperture and slower shutter. I repeat it a few times, and get super high scores. Everyone is happy, but about four weeks passed before I figured out that what people like is very high motion blur with very good depth of field.

b) Someone comments on my original entry, saying "I like the speed, but it's not quite enough" and another says "I don't see enough speed here because the background is too blurry. Try a smaller aperture to give you more sharpness in the background." Now, with just two simple comments, I saved 4 weeks and a lot of stress in my pursuit of finding the best way to photograph a moving car.
09/30/2009 06:33:53 PM · #120
Originally posted by george917:


b) Someone comments on my original entry, saying "I like the speed, but it's not quite enough" and another says "I don't see enough speed here because the background is too blurry. Try a smaller aperture to give you more sharpness in the background." Now, with just two simple comments, I saved 4 weeks and a lot of stress in my pursuit of finding the best way to photograph a moving car.


yes you did save 4 weeks. But if you saved 4 weeks due to someone's advice you do not qualify as an expert on the field. For you everything should be welcomed.

When you would reached an stage where small things are obvious then you also reach a stage where you can do what you intend to do. When you have intended to do something any advice to change does not carry so much weight.
09/30/2009 06:39:25 PM · #121
just an small and light hearted example:

imagine me telling Michelangelo that his statue David should wear underwear because i think he would look cute in shorts.

:-D

Message edited by author 2009-09-30 18:46:04.
09/30/2009 06:44:25 PM · #122
Originally posted by yanko:

My two cents:

I can see why Steve is frustrated and others are as well. However, whether you like it or not there are two kinds of entries in these challenges.

The Art Entry

This is the entry that uses the challenge theme as inspiration, a jumping off point to say something meaningful and personal or to reveal something about the world around us. Such an entry if submitted in say a Self Portrait challenge may not even show a person in the photo. A good example of this is ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Bear_Music's self portrait entry:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/308/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_146162.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/308/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_146162.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Now this scored a 3.4696 because frankly the voters couldn't see or chose not to. If however, you did then you would have learned far more about Robert than any of his other portraits combined. It was the most revealing portrait entered in that challenge and thus the best one. It's important to know that if you want to be more than just a button pusher.

The Commercial Entry

This is the entry that uses the challenge theme as a testing ground to becoming a professional photographer and by that I mean the kind that gets paid. The challenge theme is viewed like a box. The smaller it is the better because that forces you to be more creative in order to stand out while still trying to meet the client's needs and win the contract. A good example of this are the photos by ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/17203.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/17203.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Scalvert who is a master of this.

Now there is room for both but it starts with accepting they exist and respecting their place and looking out for the differences. When you leave a comment on an art photo that is only beneficial for a commercial one (like the kind Steve rants about) it reveals your ignorance and does nothing to help you or the photographer advance. Now there is certainly a learning opportunity but that only comes if you take the time to learn the photographer's purpose. At first you may need to ask the photographer but over time you should be able to see it in the photos for yourself.

Lastly, let me add commercial entries don't always get their fair shake too. It makes no sense to trash a product shot on the grounds that it isn't meaningful enough. You should be concern with the craftsmanship, creativity and how well it communicates the challenge topic.


These are definitely two kinds of challenge entries, but there are more than just these two, as well. There are the "I have no idea what I'm doing on any level" entries, the "I just want to win a ribbon, and don't care about anything else" entries, the "I want to experiment with a technique" entries that aren't artistic, deeper in meaning, or meant to further a professional portfolio...

It goes on and on.
09/30/2009 06:44:49 PM · #123
Originally posted by zxaar:

just an small ad light hearted example:

imagine me telling Michelangelo that his statue David should wear underwear because i think he would look cute in shorts.

:-D


He'd look cute in a speedo, but not bermudas.
09/30/2009 06:46:04 PM · #124
Originally posted by zxaar:

Originally posted by george917:


b) Someone comments on my original entry, saying "I like the speed, but it's not quite enough" and another says "I don't see enough speed here because the background is too blurry. Try a smaller aperture to give you more sharpness in the background." Now, with just two simple comments, I saved 4 weeks and a lot of stress in my pursuit of finding the best way to photograph a moving car.


yes you did save 4 weeks. But if you saved 4 weeks due to someone's advice you do not qualify as an expert on the field. For you everything should be welcomed.

When you would reached an stage where small things are obvious then you also reach a stage where you can do what you intend to do. When you have intended to do something any advice to change does not carry so much weight.


I would say that nobody here is an expert, because if they were, they would be too busy making way too much money to be sitting on the internet posting images on a website where they could be lifted at any given time.

This argument is ridiculous.

First and only time you will ever hear me say that, and this thread has run its course and is far off track from the original post.
09/30/2009 06:50:51 PM · #125
Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Originally posted by zxaar:

Originally posted by george917:


b) Someone comments on my original entry, saying "I like the speed, but it's not quite enough" and another says "I don't see enough speed here because the background is too blurry. Try a smaller aperture to give you more sharpness in the background." Now, with just two simple comments, I saved 4 weeks and a lot of stress in my pursuit of finding the best way to photograph a moving car.


yes you did save 4 weeks. But if you saved 4 weeks due to someone's advice you do not qualify as an expert on the field. For you everything should be welcomed.

When you would reached an stage where small things are obvious then you also reach a stage where you can do what you intend to do. When you have intended to do something any advice to change does not carry so much weight.


I would say that nobody here is an expert, because if they were, they would be too busy making way too much money to be sitting on the internet posting images on a website where they could be lifted at any given time.

This argument is ridiculous.

First and only time you will ever hear me say that, and this thread has run its course and is far off track from the original post.


Really. I could name few photographers on this site, I, at least I, do not feel qualify to comment and criticize their work. They would qualify in expert territory.

As example : ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' kiwiness ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' ursula
there are many more.
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