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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Free Study Voter Apathy - Why?
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02/01/2010 11:13:34 AM · #1
Originally posted by denbote:

As far as I am concerned, if you entered a challenge you must participate in the voting process.


What if you feel that you can't be unbiased? What if you feel for whatever the reason, that you would be scoring unfairly (maybe a poor score on your own fave shot or simply a horrendous week at work)? Should you then still have to vote? Would it be "fair" to vote on other's hard work when you feel like this? Those are questions that I ask myself before I vote in a challenge..including ones that I'm not entered into. In those cases, I may just comment...not score...or, if I'm really feeling "off", I may do neither and move onto another challenge to comment or score. :)
02/01/2010 11:06:24 AM · #2
Originally posted by jmulvihill:

Originally posted by kandykarml:

Originally posted by 3DsArcher:

Originally posted by jmulvihill:

i dont vote in challenges i've entered. others might do the same.




kind of surprised at the responses this got. I guess i had a feeling that voting in a challenge i enter is, i don't know, unfair? conflict of interest? i certainly see everyone's point though re: at least giving a vote when expecting one. I believe i will change my philosophy on this, thanks for all the feedback.

Joe


I don't think that there's anything wrong with you not voting in a challenge that you are entered into IF you feel that you cannot be "fair" in voting. Personally, if I'm feeling that I won't be able to be unbiased, I prefer to go and vote on the other challenges in the week than to possibly under-score or over-score people's photos. There are challenges where we all see dozens of the same type of thing/subject matter and after about 10 of them, we start scoring them lower and lower simply because we are bored of seeing the same thing. We've all also had really low scores on our own photos and not been able to shake that off fully enough to feel that we can be "fair" in scoring other's shots...whether we admit it or we don't. :)LOL Those are the times when I prefer to go and do a more thorough voting and commenting on other challenges that week instead. I feel that I'm doing people's hard work much more justice that way.
02/01/2010 08:57:42 AM · #3
Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by stepwalker87:

... i have also noticed that those voters entered in that challenge always seem to vote marginally lower than those voters not participating...

For me, it was the other way around in the Best of 2009 challenge:
-- Avg (participants): 5.7755
-- (non-participants): 5.7500


not for me in the best of 09 ...

Avg (all users): 5.9231
Avg (commenters): 6.8333
Avg (participants): 5.8290
Avg (non-participants): 6.2593
02/01/2010 08:42:21 AM · #4
Originally posted by stepwalker87:

... i have also noticed that those voters entered in that challenge always seem to vote marginally lower than those voters not participating...

For me, it was the other way around in the Best of 2009 challenge:
-- Avg (participants): 5.7755
-- (non-participants): 5.7500
02/01/2010 03:34:58 AM · #5
i think its almost more important to vote in challenges ive entered, but i try to vote on as much as possible without knowing my own running score, so as to avoid a bias.but i have also noticed that those voters entered in that challenge always seem to vote marginally lower than those voters not participating, and less likely to comment. why are we so harsh on one another, we are not bettering our own skills by voting down the competition with no rhyme or reason.

Message edited by author 2010-02-01 03:38:33.
12/21/2009 10:20:37 AM · #6
As far as I am concerned, if you entered a challenge you must participate in the voting process.
12/13/2009 05:36:33 AM · #7
Originally posted by Azrifel:

Quality and originality is too low and the variety too wide to spark enough interest for more votes. Maybe there are too many free study challenges?


Can't disagree. Too many people use the free study as a dumping ground for outtakes so as to milk every last high score out of the same idea/subject. The monthly free studies have become as exciting as Fill the Frame XVIII. The few times when we do run interesting challenges (ex master free study, nude, self portraits, etc) voters come out in droves and outnumber the participants. One would think we'd run more of those but instead we get Bored II...



Message edited by author 2009-12-13 05:38:23.
12/13/2009 03:01:54 AM · #8
Quality and originality is too low and the variety too wide to spark enough interest for more votes. Maybe there are too many free study challenges?
12/13/2009 02:29:16 AM · #9
Originally posted by citymars:

If I read the profile stats correctly, there are currently 1957 members, 420 of which became members within the last year.

You spend a month on a FS entry? I usually only spend a day, maybe that's why my scores are low! ;-)


Your quite right, I narrowed down the member search results (I didn't do this originally but should have) There are (now) 1959 paying Members. This goes a long way in explaining my original question. <2000 Members who CAN vote in FS and Member Only challenges and thus why there's a low voter turn-out.
12/12/2009 04:44:52 PM · #10
I meant to vote in the challenge. Unfortunately, I caught a nasty sinus infection that knocked me out. I thought I had more time to vote, and was shocked to see the results on the page when I went to vote.
12/11/2009 11:06:54 AM · #11
Originally posted by Magnum_za:

... but to spend a month getting a great shot to only have 150 odd people vote on a FS out of 83364 (at last count) registered users seems a bit of a waste to me, whatever the (valid) reasons. I know that 83364 is not the tally for Members, Registered users can't vote in FS etc, but even if it's 1000 members? 2000?

If I read the profile stats correctly, there are currently 1957 members, 420 of which became members within the last year.

You spend a month on a FS entry? I usually only spend a day, maybe that's why my scores are low! ;-)
12/10/2009 09:48:50 AM · #12
Originally posted by Magnum_za:

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

...I usually give better than I get.


Ditto. The current bug challenge is a case in point. I am on a 5.3 and my average vote is 5.9.
27 images I voted 6 or higher.


double ditto. i may be over compensating but i'm currently earning a 5.2 whie my average vote on this challenge came out to 6.7. Some great images in the bug challenge.
12/10/2009 09:43:32 AM · #13
You have rated 47 of 47 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 6.7021.
12/10/2009 09:39:31 AM · #14
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

...I usually give better than I get.


Ditto. The current bug challenge is a case in point. I am on a 5.3 and my average vote is 5.9.
27 images I voted 6 or higher.
12/10/2009 09:18:40 AM · #15
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

Nobody really wants to take photos of Spam i'm sure

Actually, I enjoyed shooting for the spam challenge. I love those topics that encourage something a bit weird.


Yep, that was my point. The challenges force us to stretch ourselves outside of our creative comfort zones.
12/10/2009 09:15:08 AM · #16
Originally posted by jmulvihill:

I guess i had a feeling that voting in a challenge i enter is, i don't know, unfair? conflict of interest?

Only if you find that being in the challenge is biasing you to give lower votes to others. I am competing more with my past performance than with the other entrants, so what I vote their images will have no effect on my own performance. I usually give better than I get.
12/10/2009 09:14:14 AM · #17
Experience is the great educator. I read Joao's OP, and it shows just that, school fees, and I take note of that experience. I've tried a few other "challenge" sites and I also like to come back to a vote or a comment and mould it till I'm happy I've been fair to the photog. So far only DPC allows that, kudo's.
I'm not suggesting a change to DPC of huge proportions at all. If I don't have something, I don't enter, no problem. Sure the FS runs for four weeks but I don't live near a Kogel Bay (apologies to Philip, he knows what I think of his superb landscapes) or the Icelandic Coast, if you get my drift :) I have water but no hyperdermic needle ;p I fully understand that DPC has arrived at it's challenge formulae with 7 years of experience (Jan 31 2002) but to spend a month getting a great shot to only have 150 odd people vote on a FS out of 83364 (at last count) registered users seems a bit of a waste to me, whatever the (valid) reasons. I know that 83364 is not the tally for Members, Registered users can't vote in FS etc, but even if it's 1000 members? 2000? Keep those comments and suggestions coming.
H
12/10/2009 09:10:38 AM · #18
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

Nobody really wants to take photos of Spam i'm sure

Actually, I enjoyed shooting for the spam challenge. I love those topics that encourage something a bit weird.
12/10/2009 08:49:45 AM · #19
Harvey, I agree it's a shame that there have been so few voters for the Free Studies. I've also noticed what seems to be a big decline in the number of entries for weekly challenges. I hope these trends aren't permanent, but there is no way of knowing that now. I think it's too soon to start calling for changes.
Cheers,
12/10/2009 08:45:44 AM · #20
Just wanted to say that I found this post to be quite refreshing! Perhaps I'm just being nostalgic...

Originally posted by sarampo:

Hello everybody!

I'll try to keep this short, although some explanation is required.

I'm fairly new to DPC, but I've been following it for more than a year now.
The only challenges site I've posted before was DPReview.
And in the beginning everything was sweet. The challenges were well thought of, the rules straightforward, and allowed us to enter any photo without date restrictions.

But then it started having 15 challenges a week...with new ones announced every day. The challenges were repeating themselves, we've had limits for entries that ranged from only 50 to a whopping 5000. And everything goes. No site council, no one to check for the plausibility of the PP used, and complete anarchy.
Also, no comments were allowed during voting.

All this has made me give up entering the challenges. I seek a more organized thing.
So I've decided to try DPC. The standard was (is) very high, and the comments helpful. The date restrictions allows it to keep a sane number of entries (making easier to vote in).

So forgive me when I say "Been there, done that" to suggestions of limiting the number of entries, or allowing archive photos to be entered.
Please don't take it as arrogant, I was just so happy to have a site where I could learn by making myself go out and take photos, and I wouldn't like that to change.

As for voting, I always look at all of the photos first to have a general idea of the range of the entries.
Then I try to vote on all of them.
Then I use the voting page, where all the scores are organized, and go through them to see if I've been unfair to some, by comparing photos. May not be the best method, but it's the one I feel most comfortable with. My 2c.

Cheers,
Joao
12/10/2009 07:40:49 AM · #21
Originally posted by jmulvihill:

I guess i had a feeling that voting in a challenge i enter is, i don't know, unfair? conflict of interest?


It's only unfair and a conflict of interest if you go into the 'challenge' thinking that that 'challenge' is against other people and not yourself.
12/10/2009 07:35:21 AM · #22
Originally posted by kandykarml:

Originally posted by 3DsArcher:

Originally posted by jmulvihill:

i dont vote in challenges i've entered. others might do the same.




kind of surprised at the responses this got. I guess i had a feeling that voting in a challenge i enter is, i don't know, unfair? conflict of interest? i certainly see everyone's point though re: at least giving a vote when expecting one. I believe i will change my philosophy on this, thanks for all the feedback.

Joe

Message edited by author 2009-12-10 07:36:23.
12/10/2009 07:24:17 AM · #23
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by Magnum_za:

I would also like to enter shots from my measly collection than be forced to go out and shoot for a challenge in one week and hope something fits, albeit mediocre just to get an entry in.


Now that would take away any originality that DPC has and this site would die a slow death. Flicker exists for posting your all time favs for all to see. :)


Totally agree Jac. For me DPC is about learning and often the best way to learn is to be forced to explore ways of doing things in a limited time. Nobody really wants to take photos of Spam i'm sure, but attempting to do so within a week is a great learning experience. I don't really want to just view images from peoples portfolios. I want to see what they come up with in a week when they are forced to take a photo that is '47 Steps' from their front door and nothing else. Thats where inspiration and creativity lies. I do get a bit frustrated that in FSs the top 20 images or so tend to always be landscapes and wildlife but that is the nature of the voters of DPC. I do, however, love those images and learn a huge amount from them. I try to vote on all challenges that i enter, and often ones i don't. I do tend to be a bit squeamish though, and some challenges i find hard to bring myself to look at. Anything to do with 'advertising' and typical 'stock' images make me feel a bit ill but, as in the Spam challenge, there is always something to learn.

Message edited by author 2009-12-10 07:26:10.
12/10/2009 06:53:23 AM · #24
Originally posted by Magnum_za:

I would also like to enter shots from my measly collection than be forced to go out and shoot for a challenge in one week and hope something fits, albeit mediocre just to get an entry in.


Now that would take away any originality that DPC has and this site would die a slow death. Flicker exists for posting your all time favs for all to see. :)
12/10/2009 04:29:06 AM · #25
Hello everybody!

I'll try to keep this short, although some explanation is required.

I'm fairly new to DPC, but I've been following it for more than a year now.
The only challenges site I've posted before was DPReview.
And in the beginning everything was sweet. The challenges were well thought of, the rules straightforward, and allowed us to enter any photo without date restrictions.

But then it started having 15 challenges a week...with new ones announced every day. The challenges were repeating themselves, we've had limits for entries that ranged from only 50 to a whopping 5000. And everything goes. No site council, no one to check for the plausibility of the PP used, and complete anarchy.
Also, no comments were allowed during voting.

All this has made me give up entering the challenges. I seek a more organized thing.
So I've decided to try DPC. The standard was (is) very high, and the comments helpful. The date restrictions allows it to keep a sane number of entries (making easier to vote in).

So forgive me when I say "Been there, done that" to suggestions of limiting the number of entries, or allowing archive photos to be entered.
Please don't take it as arrogant, I was just so happy to have a site where I could learn by making myself go out and take photos, and I wouldn't like that to change.

As for voting, I always look at all of the photos first to have a general idea of the range of the entries.
Then I try to vote on all of them.
Then I use the voting page, where all the scores are organized, and go through them to see if I've been unfair to some, by comparing photos. May not be the best method, but it's the one I feel most comfortable with. My 2c.

Cheers,
Joao
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