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03/22/2010 06:28:13 PM · #151
Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.
03/22/2010 08:00:57 PM · #152
Originally posted by Louis:

Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.

Except for the two that built the straw house and the stick house, of course.
03/22/2010 08:53:56 PM · #153
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.

Except for the two that built the straw house and the stick house, of course.


Yeah...but they were probably socialists since they ended up living with the smart one that built his out of brick.

Ray
03/22/2010 08:58:45 PM · #154
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.

Except for the two that built the straw house and the stick house, of course.


Yeah...but they were probably socialists since they ended up living with the smart one that built his out of brick.

Ray


Well apparently not smart enough since he didn't build a gate to keep those commies out.
03/22/2010 09:01:54 PM · #155
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.

Except for the two that built the straw house and the stick house, of course.


Yeah...but they were probably socialists since they ended up living with the smart one that built his out of brick.

Ray


Well apparently not smart enough since he didn't build a gate to keep those commies out.

I heard he did build a gate, but the government forced him to tear it down and let them in and share his resources with them.
03/22/2010 09:07:06 PM · #156
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.

Except for the two that built the straw house and the stick house, of course.


Yeah...but they were probably socialists since they ended up living with the smart one that built his out of brick.

Ray


Well apparently not smart enough since he didn't build a gate to keep those commies out.

I heard he did build a gate, but the government forced him to tear it down and let them in and share his resources with them.


But then the government killed their grandma :(
03/22/2010 09:09:10 PM · #157
Originally posted by cynthiann:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.

Except for the two that built the straw house and the stick house, of course.


Yeah...but they were probably socialists since they ended up living with the smart one that built his out of brick.

Ray


Well apparently not smart enough since he didn't build a gate to keep those commies out.

I heard he did build a gate, but the government forced him to tear it down and let them in and share his resources with them.


But then the government killed their grandma :(


Freeing a home for one of the dumb pigs.
03/22/2010 10:02:51 PM · #158
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by cynthiann:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.

Except for the two that built the straw house and the stick house, of course.


Yeah...but they were probably socialists since they ended up living with the smart one that built his out of brick.

Ray


Well apparently not smart enough since he didn't build a gate to keep those commies out.

I heard he did build a gate, but the government forced him to tear it down and let them in and share his resources with them.


But then the government killed their grandma :(


Freeing a home for one of the dumb pigs.


Who drove an Escalade and had a big screen TV
03/22/2010 10:05:20 PM · #159
Originally posted by LoudDog:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by cynthiann:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Louis:

Actually, pigs aren't happy in poop. Left to their own devices, they build dens out of twigs and leaves and are one of the most clean and tidy of animals -- not to mention one of the most intelligent.

Except for the two that built the straw house and the stick house, of course.


Yeah...but they were probably socialists since they ended up living with the smart one that built his out of brick.

Ray


Well apparently not smart enough since he didn't build a gate to keep those commies out.

I heard he did build a gate, but the government forced him to tear it down and let them in and share his resources with them.


But then the government killed their grandma :(


Freeing a home for one of the dumb pigs.


Who drove an Escalade and had a big screen TV


...and who pulled the wool over all of their eyes and became a politician...in a republic no less :O)

Message edited by author 2010-03-22 22:07:48.
03/22/2010 10:22:10 PM · #160
Our fine country has suffered a great loss. The passing of this bill. I am happy to report, however, that 38 states are planning on suing the federal govmt over this bill. It is unconstitutional. (It requires individuals or companies to purchase insurance) According to the "constitution" it is not legal for the govmt to force citizens to pay for a service that is "unnecessary". They also used a way of getting this bill passed that is unconstitutional and unethicall. This way of getting a bill passed was not designed for a life changing type bill. It also allowed for a smaller majority. I am not a conspiracy theorist or anything, but I think we need to impeach our president. I will not vote for any senator / congressman that voted on this bill.It is time for america to stand up, Be heard. This whole deal is outrageous.
03/22/2010 10:30:52 PM · #161
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Our fine country has suffered a great loss. The passing of this bill. I am happy to report, however, that 38 states are planning on suing the federal govmt over this bill. It is unconstitutional. (It requires individuals or companies to purchase insurance) According to the "constitution" it is not legal for the govmt to force citizens to pay for a service that is "unnecessary". They also used a way of getting this bill passed that is unconstitutional and unethicall. This way of getting a bill passed was not designed for a life changing type bill. It also allowed for a smaller majority. I am not a conspiracy theorist or anything, but I think we need to impeach our president. I will not vote for any senator / congressman that voted on this bill.It is time for america to stand up, Be heard. This whole deal is outrageous.


I guess we must not think alike because I earnestly believe that health services are at the forefront of necessities, but hey if you don't think it is, who am I to argue with you. Best of luck to you and here's hoping you never shoot yourself in the foot. :O)

Ray

Message edited by author 2010-03-22 22:59:49.
03/22/2010 10:51:35 PM · #162
The one thing that they should have tackled was the frivolous lawsuit....That would drop the doctor bill drastically, inturn dropping insurace cost. My bro is a doctor and 2 years ago he told me he was having to pay $ 75,000 a year for his malpractice insurance. Now who do you think gets that bill.... Do you think he just eats the cost...No he passes it on to his patients. The reason why his insurance rate is so high, he is an OBGYN and a person that has a child can sue the doc until the kid is 21. Acording to the law if a crackhead mother is going into labor and he is on call at the hospital he has to deliver the child. If the child is braindead, mentally handicapped, autistic or any other disfigurement,; that crackhead parent can sue the doc. Get rid of that type of lawsuit....That in itself would clean up healthcare
03/22/2010 10:57:21 PM · #163
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

38 states are planning on suing the federal govmt over this bill.

That would be 10 (all with Republican AGs).

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

It is unconstitutional. (It requires individuals or companies to purchase insurance) According to the "constitution" it is not legal for the govmt to force citizens to pay for a service that is "unnecessary."

You're already required to have car insurance. How is insuring your own health less necessary?

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

They also used a way of getting this bill passed that is unconstitutional and unethical. This way of getting a bill passed was not designed for a life changing type bill. It also allowed for a smaller majority.

That would be the tactic that Republicans sued to protect when used against the Democrats. Gee, suddenly it's not such a great idea?

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I am not a conspiracy theorist or anything, but I think we need to impeach our president.

"The House's health care vote was praised by consumer groups, given mixed reviews by doctors and got a thumbs down from insurers." That sounds about right. Fighting for the benefit of Americans is not an impeachable offense. Embroiling the country in a fraudulently justified war that has cost thousands of lives and several times more money should be. Where is your outrage over that?

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I will not vote for any senator / congressman that voted on this bill. It is time for america to stand up, Be heard.

I seriously doubt there was any chance of you voting for a Democrat anyway, so no loss there. America DID stand up, though... "Obama's first promise as a presidential candidate was that he would sign a universal health care plan into law by the end of his first term in the White House." He's doing exactly what he promised to do when people voted for him.
03/22/2010 11:11:21 PM · #164
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The one thing that they should have tackled was the frivolous lawsuit....That would drop the doctor bill drastically, inturn dropping insurace cost.

Who do you think is preventing that? Republicans have repeatedly used malpractice reform as a talking point, but never had any intention of passing it. They rejected Obama's offer to address that very issue as part of a continuing policy to block everything and anything they possibly can. If the GOP was actually serious enacting malpractice reform, nobody could have stopped them from doing so.

In reality, malpractice reform would save only a tiny fraction (about 0.5%) of healthcare costs. It's more of an appealing soundbite than meaningful progress.

Message edited by author 2010-03-22 23:34:42.
03/22/2010 11:56:27 PM · #165
I enjoyed this commentary (mp3 format, from WTOP.com, in Washington, DC) regarding the subject of this thread:

Will We Regret This Health Care Bill?
03/23/2010 12:17:24 AM · #166
I guess I've been silenced...my post disappeared.
03/23/2010 12:25:24 AM · #167
Originally posted by dponlyme:

I guess I've been silenced...my post disappeared.

Why? Did you say something that's out of line? Has to be fairly rude and vulgar to get hidden in a 'Rant' thread. I saw your post initially, but don't remember it being extreme. ???
03/23/2010 12:33:11 AM · #168
I characterized abortion as murder... I thought that was a fair characterization. I certainly don't preclude others from disagreeing with me. I don't know what else it might be.
03/23/2010 02:53:52 AM · #169
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

OK for all the brits in here....How much do you pay in taxes to cover this healthcare cost that you love so much...


Maybe a better question to ask "the brits" is which system they'd prefer living with, the American health care system before reform, or their own...


Brit here. Lived and worked in US for 6 yrs. Not any more. I now live in Finland, where on paper the taxes are way higher. Healthcare and other social benefits here are excellent (better than in UK). Strangely enough, despite relatively high taxes I am actually financially much better off than I was for the 6 yrs I lived in US. No longer do I have to deal with co-pays and expensive prescription costs. Even though my insurance was company paid, my personal out of pocket expenses were huge whenever I needed something. Many things about US life I liked, healthcare was not one of them.
03/23/2010 08:05:19 AM · #170
Originally posted by dponlyme:

I characterized abortion as murder... I thought that was a fair characterization. I certainly don't preclude others from disagreeing with me. I don't know what else it might be.


What it would be is a completely legal form of medical intervention. Would you classify state executions or war casualties as murder also?... of course not, because you probably believe that these are justifiable means of dealing with certain situations.

Far be it for me to pass judgement on someone that I know nothing about, nor to the reasons that led to the decisions they make in this regard. Decisions of this nature are best left to those directly involved in the process.

Ray
03/23/2010 09:02:27 AM · #171
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The one thing that they should have tackled was the frivolous lawsuit....That would drop the doctor bill drastically, inturn dropping insurace cost. My bro is a doctor and 2 years ago he told me he was having to pay $ 75,000 a year for his malpractice insurance. Now who do you think gets that bill.... Do you think he just eats the cost...No he passes it on to his patients. The reason why his insurance rate is so high, he is an OBGYN and a person that has a child can sue the doc until the kid is 21. Acording to the law if a crackhead mother is going into labor and he is on call at the hospital he has to deliver the child. If the child is braindead, mentally handicapped, autistic or any other disfigurement,; that crackhead parent can sue the doc. Get rid of that type of lawsuit....That in itself would clean up healthcare


And who do you want to decide when a lawsuit is frivolous? Right now we use judges and juries. It sounds like you want to do away with lawsuits all together. Do you really want Doctors working on you that have no accountability? And even that crackhead parent should be treated competently. With all of that said, there is room to improve the system short of banning lawsuits. Here is an idea for you. Ban malpractice insurance so that the doctors will have REAL accountability.
03/23/2010 10:18:34 AM · #172
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I guess I've been silenced...my post disappeared.

Why? Did you say something that's out of line? Has to be fairly rude and vulgar to get hidden in a 'Rant' thread. I saw your post initially, but don't remember it being extreme. ???


No, it just has to be something SC disagrees with. I been there too.
03/23/2010 10:38:41 AM · #173
Originally posted by Niten:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The one thing that they should have tackled was the frivolous lawsuit....That would drop the doctor bill drastically, inturn dropping insurace cost. My bro is a doctor and 2 years ago he told me he was having to pay $ 75,000 a year for his malpractice insurance. Now who do you think gets that bill.... Do you think he just eats the cost...No he passes it on to his patients. The reason why his insurance rate is so high, he is an OBGYN and a person that has a child can sue the doc until the kid is 21. Acording to the law if a crackhead mother is going into labor and he is on call at the hospital he has to deliver the child. If the child is braindead, mentally handicapped, autistic or any other disfigurement,; that crackhead parent can sue the doc. Get rid of that type of lawsuit....That in itself would clean up healthcare


And who do you want to decide when a lawsuit is frivolous? Right now we use judges and juries. It sounds like you want to do away with lawsuits all together. Do you really want Doctors working on you that have no accountability? And even that crackhead parent should be treated competently. With all of that said, there is room to improve the system short of banning lawsuits. Here is an idea for you. Ban malpractice insurance so that the doctors will have REAL accountability.


You'd end up with no doctors. Who would want to work at that level of risk?

A key part of the answer is to lower awards to more sensible levels. Stop juries determining damages and issue judges with consistent guidelines. Get rid of exemplary damages. These are responsible for a vast amount of the fat in the system.

Having said that, it gets fat out of whatever system is in place - whether that's socialised medicine or completely privatised. So it can be done alongside health reform - it is not an alternative to it.
03/23/2010 10:50:29 AM · #174
Originally posted by LoudDog:

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by LoudDog:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Note: Health care stocks are on the rise today. I guess "investors" think the health care biz is going to make out OK ...


They are all going to make out great. Especially pharmaceuticals. Lots of new customers paid for by tax dollars, no cost controls, no rate hike controls... You didn't hear them complain all that much. They are not the ones getting the shaft.


Well, wasn't it you and folks like you who argued against a "government takeover"? So the private insurance market is alive and well, and now you're complaining about that?

By the way, in my opinion one way to achieve cost controls and a truly free-market regime in health care is to do away with tax exemptions for employer-sponsored health care, which would do away with employer-sponsored health care altogether, which means folks would be on their own and have to foot the entire bill, which would force most people to buy catastrophic policies and be a lot more careful about how and how often they use the health care system, thereby driving down cost and making it more affordable. I'm wondering how many ideological purists, all you cowboy rugged individualists, are in favor of that plan!


Yes I complained about a govt takeover, but I'm not complaining about insurance companies being happy now, just stating a fact. Pharma, is a differnet story, let us buy meds from out of country. Until then I'm pissed. global economy, global market.

Amazingly, I agree with you on the second half. I'd love it if my company gave me the cash instead and left it up to me to buy my own insurance. But... if I could buy across state lines and have a medical savings account (something for what ever reason is being cut back in this new stupid plan) I'd be happier then a pig in poop.


I wasn't advocating such a system (doing away with employer-sponsored insurance), just remarking that it's one way to achieve lower costs in the short term. The problem with that approach, as with health savings accounts, as I understand it, is that it's more costly to the system as a whole over the long term because it disincentivizes preventive care and early treatment of chronic diseases. Since a small number of patients with chronic disease account for the bulk of health care spending, it makes sense to pay for preventive care, not to discourage spending in that area, as health savings accounts would do.
03/23/2010 11:12:12 AM · #175
I forgot to mention that without requiring everyone to buy insurance and going to a system of health savings accounts, you actually end up with less people insured. Some people will take the cash their employer gives them and buy health insurance with it, but a lot of people would just take the cash and not buy insurance. Now with the mandates in place, I don't know how it will play out in the long term, but I think the authors of the bill have tried to structure a system that will provide access to more people and make preventive care more likely and thereby save more in the long term.
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