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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> What happened to skating?
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02/16/2010 11:53:43 PM · #1
So perhaps I didn't pay attention the last time 'round - not sure why - but what the heck happened to figure skating? New scoring system...what the... ??? But the skating itself suddenly seems repetitive and rather dull. Is it just me? Or has it changed significantly since the last time I paid attention?
02/16/2010 11:57:26 PM · #2
From what I understand, the new scoring system (also in use in Torino) rewards technical moves and difficult jumps more than the old system did--this creates an incentive to choreograph a lot of tough jumps rather than lyrical, graceful, or interpretive skating.

The outcome seems a bit sterile to me, too. I think it's also resulted in a lot more falls as skaters try to get points through jumps that they can't consistently complete.
02/17/2010 12:01:30 AM · #3
I was just this evening thinking of the days when you knew exactly what judge gave you what score, based on the 10 pt scale...I have no clue on the new system, but it's been around for a couple of Olympics thus far. I too agree that some of the routines seem to lack the finesse of previous times, but they all skate much better than I could ever do, lol!
02/17/2010 12:02:25 AM · #4
Ooooh, the last US skater did terrible. : S Yikes!
02/17/2010 12:02:35 AM · #5
So,you didn't read the article you linked to?

The ISU Judging System replaced the previous 6.0 system in 2004. This new system was created in response to the 2002 Olympic Winter Games figure skating scandal, in an attempt to make the scoring system more objective and less vulnerable to abuse
02/17/2010 12:09:33 AM · #6
I did read it, David. I do realize they revamped the scoring system though it seems awfully confusing. But it also seems to have killed creativity.
02/17/2010 12:11:39 AM · #7
Tonya Harding killed creativity........rofl! (Or was the Kenny...)
Doesn't matter....off to do a sit spin in the kitchen.....(grabs a lazy susan, then thinks better of the whole idea..)

Message edited by author 2010-02-17 00:13:10.
02/17/2010 12:12:45 AM · #8
Originally posted by Melethia:

I did read it, David. I do realize they revamped the scoring system though it seems awfully confusing. But it also seems to have killed creativity.


I quite agree. Penny and I were both remarking on that tonight. It's just people windmilling their arms as they set up high-scoring jumps, for the most part. It's BS, is what it is. A beautiful sport is becoming a mutant joke. Similar, in a way, to what happened to basketball. Don't get me started on that...

R.
02/17/2010 12:15:05 AM · #9
Yeah, they should bring back compulsory figures. You never see a nice figure of 8 these days... ;-)
02/17/2010 12:15:26 AM · #10
I am enjoying the snowboard cross thing - quite entertaining!

Best part of the Olympics so far though is the ad for Alice in Wonderland. :-)
02/17/2010 12:16:56 AM · #11
Originally posted by Melethia:

I am enjoying the snowboard cross thing - quite entertaining!

Best part of the Olympics so far though is the ad for Alice in Wonderland. :-)


LOL, I want to see that movie. Looks like a riot! Boy, Lindsey just can't get the gold medal, can she! Wow!

Message edited by author 2010-02-17 00:17:30.
02/17/2010 12:17:08 AM · #12
figure skating sucks. i appreciate that it's very difficult and i know it takes tons of training, but seriously. everyone does the same tricks and they never get any better. in snowboarding and other similar sports, athletes are constantly pushing the boundaries of what is possible, but in figure skating, the tricks never change. how many times can you watch a triple axle or whatever? i feel like olympic figure skating in the 80s is the same as it is now. yaaaawn.

this could be the beer talking.
02/17/2010 12:19:45 AM · #13
Originally posted by Steef:

figure skating sucks. i appreciate that it's very difficult and i know it takes tons of training, but seriously. everyone does the same tricks and they never get any better. in snowboarding and other similar sports, athletes are constantly pushing the boundaries of what is possible, but in figure skating, the tricks never change. how many times can you watch a triple axle or whatever? i feel like olympic figure skating in the 80s is the same as it is now. yaaaawn.

this could be the beer talking.


Show me some snowboarders wearing feathers and sequins and I'll show you a tough sport, lmao! :P I like watching the Snowboard cross and the skiing events as well as figure skating, but it does lack anymore. Sad as it used to be one of the most anticipated sports in the Winter Olympics for some of us.

Message edited by author 2010-02-17 00:20:17.
02/17/2010 12:27:24 AM · #14
Originally posted by bergiekat:

Originally posted by Steef:

figure skating sucks. i appreciate that it's very difficult and i know it takes tons of training, but seriously. everyone does the same tricks and they never get any better. in snowboarding and other similar sports, athletes are constantly pushing the boundaries of what is possible, but in figure skating, the tricks never change. how many times can you watch a triple axle or whatever? i feel like olympic figure skating in the 80s is the same as it is now. yaaaawn.

this could be the beer talking.


Show me some snowboarders wearing feathers and sequins and I'll show you a tough sport, lmao! :P I like watching the Snowboard cross and the skiing events as well as figure skating, but it does lack anymore. Sad as it used to be one of the most anticipated sports in the Winter Olympics for some of us.


i'd love to see a snowboarder in a feathery mardi gras mask, that would be awesome. you can definitely find videos of guys skateboarding in full animal costumes, or surfers in 3 piece suits sipping tea while they fly down the line. like i said, i definitely appreciate the fact that figure skating is an extremely difficult sport, i just feel like there hasn't been any innovation since i can remember watching it, and that's sad. i think the scoring system has a lot to do with it.

you know what i would love? if the figure skaters wore grippy gloves and did hand springs and stuff like that on the ice. i'm sure someone could pull it off. of course, they'd probably lose points for some silly traditional reason, like 'thou shalt not touch the ice with thine fingers' but the person who pulls it off would have a gold medal in my book, and that's worth... ehh, probably not too much, but whatever ;)

did i mention i may have been drinking tonight?
02/17/2010 02:04:39 AM · #15
I will say that a couple of the young guys were pretty entertaining. The kid from Canada had amazing footwork. But it's too late to stay up to watch the rest. I'll check out the web tomorrow for highlights... :-)
02/17/2010 02:09:44 AM · #16
Originally posted by Steef:



i'd love to see a snowboarder in a feathery mardi gras mask . . . you know what i would love? if the figure skaters wore grippy gloves and did hand springs and stuff like that on the ice. . . .


I think most of the commenters in this thread would probably agree with your desire to see something new from figure skating these days. You compared today's skating with skating in the 80s--in some ways, the skating might have been better (from a creative standpoint) than it is today. Just about the only innovation I can think of that we have now is the quad jump, which people just didn't do before. Personally, I'd drop the quad and go back to something more lyrical, more artful.

Including backflips.
02/17/2010 02:35:36 AM · #17
There definitely has been some innovation in skating since the 80s. The quadruple jump has only been performed for the last few years.

I do agree that the competition takes a lot of the beauty out of the sport, but that's what the "professional skaters are for! I find the non-competitive stuff (like the Smucker's on Ice or the Stars on Ice shows) to be much more enjoyable.

I also agree that the new scoring system sucks for all the reasons stated. I get that the old system was a lot more subjective, but it was much easier to understand and it rated the overall performance instead of just the technicalities. Skating is like photography--technical perfection does not always equal art!
02/17/2010 02:37:13 AM · #18
Originally posted by geinafets:

There definitely has been some innovation in skating since the 80s. The quadruple jump has only been performed for the last few years.

I do agree that the competition takes a lot of the beauty out of the sport, but that's what the "professional skaters are for! I find the non-competitive stuff (like the Smucker's on Ice or the Stars on Ice shows) to be much more enjoyable.

I also agree that the new scoring system sucks for all the reasons stated. I get that the old system was a lot more subjective, but it was much easier to understand and it rated the overall performance instead of just the technicalities. Skating is like photography--technical perfection does not always equal art!


[ETA: mycelium beat me on the quad thing. Backflips were always my favorite move, but they're illegal in competition!]
02/17/2010 10:21:45 AM · #19
Originally posted by geinafets:

Originally posted by geinafets:

There definitely has been some innovation in skating since the 80s. The quadruple jump has only been performed for the last few years.

I do agree that the competition takes a lot of the beauty out of the sport, but that's what the "professional skaters are for! I find the non-competitive stuff (like the Smucker's on Ice or the Stars on Ice shows) to be much more enjoyable.

I also agree that the new scoring system sucks for all the reasons stated. I get that the old system was a lot more subjective, but it was much easier to understand and it rated the overall performance instead of just the technicalities. Skating is like photography--technical perfection does not always equal art!


[ETA: mycelium beat me on the quad thing. Backflips were always my favorite move, but they're illegal in competition!]


Backflips interrupt the flow. Now if they could do a backflip and transition smoothly to a Triple Axle (no dead stop after the flip) that would be interesting.
02/17/2010 02:38:27 PM · #20
The thing of it is, in the eyes of many, it's not a sport if it is not judged objectively. Think about that for a bit, and you see the genesis of the current scoring systems in gymnastics and figure skating both; in order for the skaters to be accepted as athletes, instead of as performers, the sport needed (or so they thought) an objective scoring system.

So now we see the logical outgrowth of that; "performances" that are heavy on technicals and light on artistry. And it didn't used to be so lopsided. Which is why those of us who love(d) the sport feel sad. The art part meant a lot to us, and it appears to be gone witht he wind...

R.
02/17/2010 02:49:32 PM · #21
I remember (a long time ago) when it was 90% artistry, supported by the technical skills necessary to perform the artistry. The Protopopovs, Torvill & Dean (ice dancers), Babylonia & Gardner, etc. Now it seems so purely technical that when somebody moves their arms in a non-jerky, non-flailing way, but fluidly and with the music, it stands out from the current crowd.

Imagine if photographs were judged not by the resulting image, but by watching how fast and accurately the photographer dialed settings on the camera as the shot was taken. The shot could be crap, but if s/he "nailed" the settings [landings] it is a winner.

Sad.
02/17/2010 03:18:15 PM · #22
Originally posted by chromeydome:

I remember (a long time ago) when it was 90% artistry, supported by the technical skills necessary to perform the artistry. The Protopopovs, Torvill & Dean (ice dancers), Babylonia & Gardner, etc. Now it seems so purely technical that when somebody moves their arms in a non-jerky, non-flailing way, but fluidly and with the music, it stands out from the current crowd.

Imagine if photographs were judged not by the resulting image, but by watching how fast and accurately the photographer dialed settings on the camera as the shot was taken. The shot could be crap, but if s/he "nailed" the settings [landings] it is a winner.

Sad.


That's pretty much how Penny and I see it. But there was actually a serious move afoot to remove figure skating from the Olympics schedule as "not a sport"; it's beautiful, sure, they said, but it isn't a sport.

R.
02/17/2010 03:25:16 PM · #23
yup--but they still consider style and form in ski jumping, moguls, and that gymnastic ribbon thing etc. so they could find a way to do both. The short program could be purely technical: execute this and that and the other thing (even without music). Dull, sure, but at least not offensive to the eye. Long program: include at least x amount of technical content in an artistic presentation.

On the other hand, I suspect that the winners will still tend to be those who perform both technically and artistically....
02/17/2010 03:34:02 PM · #24
Well, they ARE judging both now, of course, it's just that greater weight than before is given to technicals. Gymnastics is in the same boat as figure skating, the floor exercises are getting more technical and less artistic.

The rest of the world is kinda like DPC, actually :-)

R.
02/17/2010 04:06:44 PM · #25
wow, some people still remember Belousova and Protopopov, that's pretty amazing! By the way, they are in their 70's and they are still performing quite well, believe it or not. here is a link to their 2005 performance
link
they epitomize the era when figure skating was still mostly dance.

...speaking of, what do you think the voters will do if a photo of figure skating or rhytmic gymnastic performers is entered in the current "Dance" challenge?
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