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06/08/2004 07:24:00 PM · #1
Best President of the last century?
06/08/2004 07:27:43 PM · #2
Only good words for the dead !
Don't remember what kind of President he was,but I heard that he was very smart man and Statesman !
06/08/2004 07:35:05 PM · #3
That's weird . . .thought I had posted a reply here. Must have hit back or something! The short of it is: I had always thought he was generally perceived as the worst President second to Jimmy Carter, but maybe that is the circles I travel in????? I certainly respected the man's integrity and what I believe was a good heart. I went through a similar nightmare with a parent, and now another, and it is a horrible thing for anyone to have to go through. I wish him peace finally, and hope that Nancy can find some, too, if possible.
06/08/2004 07:55:26 PM · #4
Originally posted by pitsaman:

Only good words for the dead !

Then why do they always ask assembleges to offer up a minute of silence? :)

Seriously, than man had a reputation for integrity and honesty, but did in fact migrate from FDR Democrat and Union President, to being an anti-goverment Republican, and the man who destroyed PATCO over a contract dispute, as well as illegally selling arms to a terrorist state (Iran) to raise money (to replace that cut off by Congress) to fund other terrorists (Nicaragua).

He was undoubtedly a great guy, but I think he did more to undermine democracy in America than anyone in the last century. Sorry if that's not "nice."
06/08/2004 08:00:44 PM · #5
Originally posted by GeneralE:

He was undoubtedly a great guy, but I think he did more to undermine democracy in America than anyone in the last century. Sorry if that's not "nice."


I feel that unfortunately, America has been going downhill since the 70's, and I take responsibility for being part of it. I don't think many of us ever thought our ideals could turn out so screwed up by us. But that's all I'll say; I'll probably get hate mail now as it is.
06/08/2004 08:22:05 PM · #6
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Only good words for the dead !

Then why do they always ask assembleges to offer up a minute of silence? :)

Seriously, than man had a reputation for integrity and honesty, but did in fact migrate from FDR Democrat and Union President, to being an anti-goverment Republican, and the man who destroyed PATCO over a contract dispute, as well as illegally selling arms to a terrorist state (Iran) to raise money (to replace that cut off by Congress) to fund other terrorists (Nicaragua).

He was undoubtedly a great guy, but I think he did more to undermine democracy in America than anyone in the last century. Sorry if that's not "nice."


Actually one of the VERY FEW times that I agree with the General. Reagan was an Actor. Had great speach writers and that should be enough said. America was enamored with the "personality" and that is the electorates right. There is not a single president of either party that I have been satisfied with in at least 20 years. The single individual whom I believed would have made a Great President, didn't get enough votes to even be a memory....Andre Moreau. So is life. Reagan will be remebered fondly.....10 years with alzeimers is a horendous time frame. It is a debilitating, evil disease that takes the person one has known an entire lifetime and turns them into an unrecognizeable soul. Extremely sad for the loved ones who must watch this person become confused, violent, and most sad a lost loved one who simply cannot remember their children. My sympathy and condolences to the family. The legacy is a different matter.


Message edited by author 2004-06-08 20:23:22.
06/08/2004 08:31:31 PM · #7
Aye. God rest his soul, but Reagan would scarcely make the top 10 of the 20th Century. Hell, even Nixon rates higher in my estimation.
06/08/2004 08:46:35 PM · #8
As far as politics are concerned, I was 11 when he was elected for president in '80. All through high school, he was the president, and I didn't know squat about what was going on outside of Emory Texas (population 513). I guess I had the same attitude that most teens probably possess when it comes to politics. Now that I'm a grownup, I see that Reagan did some great things and also had some poor judgement. Who doesn't? I know that he was an effective communicator, public speaker, and had a pleasant persona in the media. I will remember most, however, what I learned in Nancy's book of love letters from him. I will remember him as the human being and as the husband she portrayed in that book. Luckily, in America, I have that choice. God rest his soul and be with Nancy and her family.
06/08/2004 08:53:18 PM · #9
Very sad indeed. I think he was marvelous, even though I wasn't old enough to comprehend, I think (after some study) that he did some wonderful things while in his Presidency. May God bless his family.
06/08/2004 09:17:32 PM · #10
I believe President Reagan was the best President of my lifetime. Also he was instrumental in the dissolution of the Soviet Union. It is amazing how we all perceive things so differently.
:)
06/08/2004 09:19:55 PM · #11
Originally posted by Flash:

... Reagan will be remebered fondly.....10 years with alzeimers is a horendous time frame. It is a debilitating, evil disease that takes the person one has known an entire lifetime and turns them into an unrecognizeable soul. Extremely sad for the loved ones who must watch this person become confused, violent, and most sad a lost loved one who simply cannot remember their children. My sympathy and condolences to the family ...

... and I can agree with that too.
06/08/2004 09:41:45 PM · #12
The best modern time president, YES, the best president of the century, NO.
06/08/2004 10:06:13 PM · #13
I feel for Nancy and the rest of the family. To have lost their loved one, and for having to see him deteriorate like that.
However...
As for being President? I was in college, and only remember the No Nukes rallies, and the beginnings of Recession (which became full-blown by 1987 and lasted many years with his successor, Bush I).

I felt a little guilty that I was not feeling part of the "great sadness across America". .... look, as a person, of course I am saddened by any loss, but to say all these great things about his presidency... :(

06/08/2004 10:24:26 PM · #14
An excerpt from an interview this morning with Fr. Miguel D'Escoto by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now!

We go to Managua, Nicaragua to speak with Fr. Miguel D'Escoto, a Catholic priest who was Nicaragua's Foreign Minister under the Sandinista government in the 1980s. [Includes transcript]
The 8 years Reagan was in office represented one of the most bloody eras in the history of the Western hemisphere, as Washington funneled money, weapons and other supplies to right wing death squads. And the death toll was staggering - more than 70,000 political killings in El Salvador, more than 100,000 in Guatemala, 30,000 killed in the contra war in Nicaragua. In Washington, the forces carrying out the violence were called "freedom fighters." This is how Ronald Reagan described the Contras in Nicaragua: "They are our brothers, these freedom fighters and we owe them our help. They are the moral equal of our founding fathers."

Fr. Miguel D'Escoto, a Catholic priest based in Managua, Nicaragua. He was Nicaragua's Foreign Minister under the Sandinista government in the 1980s.

FATHER MIGUEL D'ESCOTO: First of all, let me start out by saying that, of course, Reagan is now dead. And I, for one, would like to say only nice things about him. I'm not insensitive to the feelings of many U.S. people mourning president Reagan, but as I pray that god in his infinite mercy and goodness forgive him for having been the butcher of my people, for having been responsible for the deaths of some 50,000 Nicaraguans, we cannot, we should not ever forget the crimes he committed in the name of what he falsely labeled freedom and democracy.

More perhaps than any other U.S. President, Reagan convinced many around the world that the U.S. is a fraud, a big lie. Not only was it not democratic, but in fact the greatest enemy of the right of self-determination of peoples. Reagan, as you mentioned just a few minutes ago, was known as the great communicator, and I believe that that is true only if one believes that to be a great communicator means to be a good liar. That he was for sure. He could proclaim the biggest lies without even as much as blinking an eyelash. Hearing him talk about how we were supposedly persecuting Jews and burning down non-existent synagogues, I was led to believe really, that Reagan was possessed by demons. Frankly, I do believe Reagan at that time as much as Bush today was indeed possessed by the demons of manifest destiny.

Democracy Now !
06/08/2004 10:28:23 PM · #15
I admit Reagan had the "guts" to flat-out say "tear down that wall," and the sense to say it in English, unlike John Kennedy, who's translator was apparently unaware that in idiomatic German "Ich bin ein Berliner" becomes roughly "I am a doughnut."
06/10/2004 01:06:44 AM · #16
>Fr. Miguel D'Escoto, a Catholic priest who was Nicaragua's Foreign >Minister under the Sandinista government in the 1980s

First of all, I say this. What was a Catholic priest doing in a government position for a Communist government? Why is this important?

1. His job as a priest is to take care of the spiritual well being of his parishoners, not to be a government deputy.
2. His superior, Pope John Paul II, was a notable anti-communist leader, so he probably wasn't too pleased with one of his priests associating with communist.
3. Communism is an athestic political philosophy.

My point is that this man's credibility is seriously questionable. I will not bring up the numbers of innocents killed by the Sandinista government, but there were many.

One of my college buddies grew up in Nicaragua under the Sandinista goverment before his family emigrated to the U.S. I have heard first hand accounts of the horrors of the Sandinista government. My buddy was a fervent supporter of the freedom fighters.
06/10/2004 01:21:35 AM · #17
i dont think there will ever be a good president. nobody that should be president would ever run for it, much less get elected.
06/10/2004 03:29:02 AM · #18
Originally posted by Olyuzi:

An excerpt from an interview this morning with Fr. Miguel D'Escoto by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now!...

Democracy Now !


Well, there you go again...

But seriously, Democracy Now? That's the best source you can come up with? You might as well quote the Onion.
06/10/2004 05:05:00 PM · #19
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I admit Reagan had the "guts" to flat-out say "tear down that wall," and the sense to say it in English, unlike John Kennedy, who's translator was apparently unaware that in idiomatic German "Ich bin ein Berliner" becomes roughly "I am a doughnut."


Although Germans loved JFK for saying that! Many still have pictures of JFK in their homes! Reagan did say 'tear down that wall', but I feel it was simply the relentless showing the USSR that the USA had better technology and that there was not way they were ever going to catch up that tore down the wall. I suppose that must include SDI ('Star Wars')?

He is an interesting figure. I voted for him in 1980--my first vote!--but did not in 1984. I remember how the news constantly portrayed him as being 'media savvy', but I had no idea what they meant. I couldn't see how it could be any other way, but it is now understood that he changed how media politicking is done.

To this day, I still wonder how he got away with the Iran/Contra scandal. Ultimately, I feel he was okay, but certainly not great by any stretch of the imagination. Like any president, he did some good things and some bad. I feel now that others would have done much better.
06/10/2004 06:13:45 PM · #20
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I admit Reagan had the "guts" to flat-out say "tear down that wall," and the sense to say it in English, unlike John Kennedy, who's translator was apparently unaware that in idiomatic German "Ich bin ein Berliner" becomes roughly "I am a doughnut."


Actually this is just (yet another) urban legend. While out of context that is one of the potential translations, the context it was used in is as far as I understand it from my German friends, entirely correct and appropriate.

Berliners (jelly donuts) are not called Berliners in Berlin, (they are called Pfannkuchen) so there was no confusion in that location.

Normally a Berliner would say "Ich komme aus Berlin" ("I am from Berlin"), but because Kennedy wanted to emphasize the common identity among people of the "world of freedom", that usage would have been misleading. "Ich bin Berliner" (cf. "Ich bin Amerikaner", "Ich bin Deutscher" etc.) would be preferred in common usage, but "Ich bin ein Berliner" is not grammatically incorrect (especially in a larger context such as "Ich bin ein Berliner von Millionen" - "I am one Berliner among millions").

Message edited by author 2004-06-10 18:15:32.
06/10/2004 06:17:10 PM · #21
Originally posted by MadMordegon:

i dont think there will ever be a good president. nobody that should be president would ever run for it, much less get elected.


interesting thought
06/10/2004 06:23:51 PM · #22
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I admit Reagan had the "guts" to flat-out say "tear down that wall," and the sense to say it in English, unlike John Kennedy, who's translator was apparently unaware that in idiomatic German "Ich bin ein Berliner" becomes roughly "I am a doughnut."


Actually this is just (yet another) urban legend. While out of context that is one of the potential translations, the context it was used in is as far as I understand it from my German friends, entirely correct and appropriate.

Berliners (jelly donuts) are not called Berliners in Berlin, (they are called Pfannkuchen) so there was no confusion in that location.

OK ... I should know better since an old friend of mine's named Fankuchen. Still, the apocryphal version is funnier ...
06/10/2004 06:26:48 PM · #23
... und ich kann nur eine sehr kliene bisschen Deutch sprechen, nach mehr als dreissig jahre ...

Message edited by author 2004-06-10 18:27:08.
06/10/2004 06:31:35 PM · #24
Originally posted by dsidwell:

I remember how the news constantly portrayed him as being 'media savvy', but I had no idea what they meant.

It means things like having scripted and choreographed all of these funeral activities -- down to the camera angles of the parade and viewing areas, and timing the funeral to coincide with the sun setting over the Pacific -- many years before he developed Alzheimer's disease, possible while still President.

(cf. Marc Sandalow, Washington Bureau Chief, S.F. Chronicle; interview on KCBS radio, 6/10/2004)
06/11/2004 10:24:36 AM · #25
I also agree with General E.
Reagan was one of the worst presients in modern time.
Each President has to have a State funeral but the trappings are up to them. Each year from the start of their Presidency (and continued until they die) they have to make plans for their funeral and amend them each year. Ronald and Nancy choreographed each step of this funeral and as far as I'm concerned it was very over done including walking up the east wing (with all those steps) so he could be facing the setting sun. He will also be buried in California in the evening at sunset.
As far as his political record;
1) He stopped a lot of funding for the arts
2) He wanted private citizens and corporations to pick up the slack
3) He cut back social security
4) Iran Contra
5) He cut back on consrvation and made a statement that said "If you have seen one tree how many more do you need to see."
6) When AIDS was running rampant he refused to allot any money
7) He was the first President to be innaugerated on the east side of the Capitol because it held more people (always the actor)
While he was a likeable personality he certainly was never a good president.
I felt sorry for him in the last years of his life because no one deserves to go through that ordeal. I am also touched by the love between Nancy and Ron, but to say he was a great president is ludicrous.
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