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04/30/2005 02:04:55 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by queanbeez:
well Terry i guess i abuse the DPC commenting system by sayin nice shot. I thought that saying "Nice Shot" would let them know that I liked it..I dont have the skill to say things about the composition, lighting, set up or whatever..I have only done fair challenges, so how can i give someone else constructive criticism when i need it myself? I havent said "Nice Shot" just to get the Comment Callenge because i already had made enough comments before it was even brought up..I really dont understand how so many people complain about not getting comments than complain when you do. |
You don't have to offer advice, just say what you think about the picture. Seriously, when a photo opens up on the screen, everyone thinks something -- just write it down. It probably wasn't "nice shot" although it could be "wow!" It doesn't have to be some deep photgraphic analysis, just your opinion about the photo.
As you start making comments, you will start thinking about why you like/dislike something, which will naturally lead to ideas for making it better. That's why making comments is one of the most effective ways of improving your own photography. Eventually, when you can apply that same kind of thinking to your own photos, you'll be a "good photographer." |
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04/30/2005 02:05:11 PM · #27 |
I don't have a problem at all with the 'extra' challenge. To be honest I don't have a clue if I'm eligible or not. I'm not good with words so when I try to comment on a picture, I make sure to add that I'm new and not very good at explaining stuff and since I use a laptop at home and a flatscreen at work and it may be my equipment. I'm not very photography/technical savvy...yet :)
It sounds like a great incentive to me!
Please be patient with us newbies that don't explain very well :) |
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04/30/2005 02:06:59 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by colyla:
I don't have a problem at all with the 'extra' challenge. To be honest I don't have a clue if I'm eligible or not. |
You are:
# Comments:Made: 247
# Helpful: 199
# Received: 17 |
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04/30/2005 02:07:20 PM · #29 |
| I like the way cpanaioti put it!! (by the way cpanaioti, I'm a "Colette" too:) |
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04/30/2005 02:10:34 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by colyla:
I like the way cpanaioti put it!! (by the way cpanaioti, I'm a "Colette" too:) |
And spelled the right way too. ;o)
I took a peek at the comments you've been making and you are doing well trying to identify what grabbed you about an image. Keep it up. It's all appreciated.
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04/30/2005 02:17:47 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by queanbeez:
well Terry i guess i abuse the DPC commenting system by sayin nice shot. I thought that saying "Nice Shot" would let them know that I liked it..I dont have the skill to say things about the composition, lighting, set up or whatever..I have only done fair challenges, so how can i give someone else constructive criticism when i need it myself? I havent said "Nice Shot" just to get the Comment Callenge because i already had made enough comments before it was even brought up..I really dont understand how so many people complain about not getting comments than complain when you do. |
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. If you were not commenting, and then left a bunch of "nice shot" comments after we announced the challenge in a race for eligibility, it would be an entirely different issue. Looking back I see no change in the number or rate of your comments after we announced the Invitational challenge.
As far as constructive criticism, I know how hard it can be to comment on an outstanding photo. Constructive feetback does not always mean offering suggestions for improvement. When you find a photograph you like, why not tell the photographer what you particularly liked about it? Something like:
Nice shot. I really like the way the lines lead my eye through this image.
Great photo. Black and white was a good choice to bring out the strong light and shadow.
Either way, you have nothing to worry about. Saying "nice shot" is not abuse. Mindlessly cutting and pasting comments for the purpose of gaining access to a challenge to which one would not otherwise have access is abuse.
Good luck in the commenters' challenge, if you choose to enter. You've earned it, so go for it!
-Terry
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04/30/2005 02:19:15 PM · #32 |
i do say what i like about the photo and i like to tell the person if i like the shot. if theres nothing particular about it i'll just say nice shot and vote..i dont see what the big deal is..i would rather someone comment and say nice shot than to have someone down grading my photo..atleast if they say nice shot i know they lked it.
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04/30/2005 02:20:20 PM · #33 |
okie dokie just checking, thanks for the response
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by queanbeez:
well Terry i guess i abuse the DPC commenting system by sayin nice shot. I thought that saying "Nice Shot" would let them know that I liked it..I dont have the skill to say things about the composition, lighting, set up or whatever..I have only done fair challenges, so how can i give someone else constructive criticism when i need it myself? I havent said "Nice Shot" just to get the Comment Callenge because i already had made enough comments before it was even brought up..I really dont understand how so many people complain about not getting comments than complain when you do. |
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. If you were not commenting, and then left a bunch of "nice shot" comments after we announced the challenge in a race for eligibility, it would be an entirely different issue. Looking back I see no change in the number or rate of your comments after we announced the Invitational challenge.
As far as constructive criticism, I know how hard it can be to comment on an outstanding photo. Constructive feetback does not always mean offering suggestions for improvement. When you find a photograph you like, why not tell the photographer what you particularly liked about it? Something like:
Nice shot. I really like the way the lines lead my eye through this image.
Great photo. Black and white was a good choice to bring out the strong light and shadow.
Either way, you have nothing to worry about. Saying "nice shot" is not abuse. Mindlessly cutting and pasting comments for the purpose of gaining access to a challenge to which one would not otherwise have access is abuse.
Good luck in the commenters' challenge, if you choose to enter. You've earned it, so go for it!
-Terry |
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04/30/2005 03:16:10 PM · #34 |
Just to stir the pot a little more - don't you think this could have been largely avoided by skipping the pre-announcement and just taking who was qualified (comment stats-wise) at the time it was announced - not by the time they submit?
I know hindsight is 20/20. :)
By the way, I also feel "forced" and "coerced" into getting a bunch of ribbons just so I can be invited to the masters challenge someday. :P
...and just to beat that horse - I bet the masters were really mad when they had that "no ribbon" invitational. :)
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04/30/2005 03:24:34 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by gusto:
Im the one that pulled that stunt... its similar to the stunt DP challenge pulls when requiring its members to have commented on posts in order to participate in a challenge (not all challenges) I dont often feel like making a comment nor feel I should be required to do so... but if Im forced to make a comment shouldnt any comment Im forced to make be acceptable (how about the generic comments) nice DOF, good job, a real winner, brilliant, nice photo... blabbidy bla bla...
We'll all find a way to justify our own position on this issue ( I've just stated mine) |
I read the 13 comments you have given and frankly I found the first two to be very rude. There is no use to try to make a challenge with simple comments like what you have done.
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04/30/2005 03:32:06 PM · #36 |
i just wanna say every 'wow' i ever received made me feel good somehow and if only for a few seconds
a 'wow' can be more precious than a page full of technical advises
there is nothing like a 'wow' in the right moment
so don t u ever stop giving these little yells of joy..dammit
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04/30/2005 03:32:11 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
Just to stir the pot a little more - don't you think this could have been largely avoided by skipping the pre-announcement and just taking who was qualified (comment stats-wise) at the time it was announced - not by the time they submit?
I know hindsight is 20/20. :) |
The objective, though, was to encourage commenting, which required the announcement fo it to be effective. We were aware that it might encourage abuse, and planned for that eventuality. FWIW, this case is the only one to come to light... so far.
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04/30/2005 03:38:09 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
The objective, though, was to encourage commenting, which required the announcement fo it to be effective. We were aware that it might encourage abuse, and planned for that eventuality. FWIW, this case is the only one to come to light... so far. |
Good point. It does seem to have spurred a lot of constructive activity and this looks like an isolated case.
Rock on. :)
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04/30/2005 03:39:07 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by colyla:
I like the way cpanaioti put it!! (by the way cpanaioti, I'm a "Colette" too:) |
And spelled the right way too. ;o)
***Exactly....sounds like you have to say "only one "L" a lot too? :)
I took a peek at the comments you've been making and you are doing well trying to identify what grabbed you about an image. Keep it up. It's all appreciated. |
***Thank you. I'll work on trying to be more specific.
***A question for everyone: How about when you see a picture that seems...not very good. How does one go about critiqueing in a diplomatic way? I read others to help get a 'feel' for it....but I haven't ever critiqued....didn't really feel I was qualified and didn't want to appear like I knew what the heck I was talking about LOL. Also...just a not to folks....when I make a comment during the voting process it's more of that first impression/instinct thought...usually something quick....then later, after the voting is over and the places are shown I will go back to photos and see how they did according to my personal voting and make some comments.
I must say though....as I'm sure everyone else has noticed....when the photos get up to the 400-500 entries...it is really tough to get in there and vote....I know...you only have to do 20%....but I don't like doing that...I feel everyone should get my vote not just some.
Well I have typed a book again... :)
Thanks Guys!
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04/30/2005 03:40:58 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by colyla:
***A question for everyone: How about when you see a picture that seems...not very good. How does one go about critiqueing in a diplomatic way? |
Start here ... : ) |
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04/30/2005 03:41:03 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
Just to stir the pot a little more - don't you think this could have been largely avoided by skipping the pre-announcement and just taking who was qualified (comment stats-wise) at the time it was announced - not by the time they submit? |
No. As I've mentioned in previous threads, the database is not set up for that. It doesn't store the count of comments. We count them in real-time at the time you view your profile.
As such, there is no practical way to have determined who was eligible at the time of accouncement.
Before someone asks, counting all comments for all users would have been too resource-intensive to be practical. It would have involved shutting down the site for a significant period of time.
It is also our intention to encourage commenting with this challenge. The vast majority of people who are commenting as a result of this challenge are doing so in a constructive manner. We will deal with those who are not accordingly.
It confuses me somewhat that people are pointing to the potential for someone to cheat as a reason that we should not run challenges like this. It's possible to cheat with the editing rules, but we police that. The same logic would argue that we should drop the editing and date rules from the challenges as well.
Site Council has always monitored compliance with the rules, and has punished those who intentionally cheat appropriately. Why would this be any different?
-Terry
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04/30/2005 03:41:59 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by messerschmitt:
i just wanna say every 'wow' i ever received made me feel good somehow and if only for a few seconds
a 'wow' can be more precious than a page full of technical advises
there is nothing like a 'wow' in the right moment
so don t u ever stop giving these little yells of joy..dammit |
A Wow is a great comment but not when people are trying to get ahead of the game for a challenge that will win you a "virtual ribbon".
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04/30/2005 03:52:03 PM · #43 |
i wish there wasn't such a push on commenting....it really ends up destorying my entries...ppl. look for something negitive all the time they never think they could just give a nice happy comment....
this is the 1 prob. with this site ppl. here are way to tech. based instead of looking at an image like u do a painting they look at it like it is a factory 1 that eigthers work and completts the job eficantly or 1 that does not complette the job for this that and the other reason (was that to strange a medifore?).....the images here 1st and for most should be art and everything after that comes 2nd........
PHOTOGRAPHY IS CONSIDERED TO BE AN ART!!!!!!
now if u don't like what the person did with the image (u are commenting on) then say i don't like it because _____________, and if u do like it then say i do like this because ________________.
but please never assume that the photographer doesn't know his/her own pice and say this is out of focus or this is off in coloration........the photog. knows that they must the created it to be that way so if u don't see what is going on then just admit that u missed the photogs. point in the image.
after all u didn't press the shutter did u?....and if u had then assume u would have done it your way....and come out with a product u liked....so then applie that to my image, bills image, ricks image, judys image.........etc. but please don't think i don't know what i did/was doing.....u can tell me how u think it would be more affective but don't tell me something i know about it and intended to be that way.
that is all......
carry on..........
_brando_
Message edited by author 2005-04-30 16:07:48.
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04/30/2005 03:54:13 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by colyla:
***A question for everyone: How about when you see a picture that seems...not very good. How does one go about critiqueing in a diplomatic way? I read others to help get a 'feel' for it....but I haven't ever critiqued....didn't really feel I was qualified and didn't want to appear like I knew what the heck I was talking about LOL. Also...just a not to folks....when I make a comment during the voting process it's more of that first impression/instinct thought...usually something quick....then later, after the voting is over and the places are shown I will go back to photos and see how they did according to my personal voting and make some comments. |
I pretty much do it the same. My initial comments come from my "gut reaction" - unless my reaction is nausea - I admittedly just click the 1 or 2 on the really bad ones (IMO of course). I most often could not find a tactful way of saying what I really thought - especially with the hypersensitivity that occasionally flares up. I have seen some examples of what not to say.
I also go back to the thumbnail view several times after I've scored and then try and comment on more. I probably haven't done this as much as I'd like, but I think it's good to comment on the ones that were "almost" great. I've seen some that would have been top contenders but for a single element or issue that probably could have been fixed or avoided. I've received comments like that and I greatly appreciate those particularly.
Originally posted by colyla:
I must say though....as I'm sure everyone else has noticed....when the photos get up to the 400-500 entries...it is really tough to get in there and vote....I know...you only have to do 20%....but I don't like doing that...I feel everyone should get my vote not just some. |
Ditto.
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04/30/2005 03:58:03 PM · #45 |
Quote from General E "You don't have to offer advice, just say what you think about the picture. Seriously, when a photo opens up on the screen, everyone thinks something -- just write it down. It probably wasn't "nice shot" although it could be "wow!" It doesn't have to be some deep photgraphic analysis, just your opinion about the photo.
As you start making comments, you will start thinking about why you like/dislike something, which will naturally lead to ideas for making it better. That's why making comments is one of the most effective ways of improving your own photography. Eventually, when you can apply that same kind of thinking to your own photos, you'll be a "good photographer." [/quote]
I have found this statement to be true, the more I vote and comment the better my photos have become. When I am working on an image to submit for a challenge, the "final" test is "how would I rate this if I were voting?"
Message edited by author 2005-04-30 15:58:44. |
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04/30/2005 04:03:18 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
It confuses me somewhat that people are pointing to the potential for someone to cheat as a reason that we should not run challenges like this. It's possible to cheat with the editing rules, but we police that. The same logic would argue that we should drop the editing and date rules from the challenges as well.
Site Council has always monitored compliance with the rules, and has punished those who intentionally cheat appropriately. Why would this be any different?
-Terry |
Points taken, Terry. Ironically I gripe about people in my world wanting to bend or not move forward because of something that everyone thinks is a huge problem, but in fact is not.
So, I take back my earlier, "pre-enlightenment" comment. :)
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04/30/2005 04:05:37 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by fotodude:
i wish there wasn't such a push on commenting....it really ends up destorying my entries...ppl. look for something negitive all the time they never think they could just give a nice happy comment....
this is the 1 prob. with this site ppl. here are way to tech. based instead of looking at an image like u do a painting they look at it like it is a factory 1 that eigthers work and completts the job eficantly or 1 that does not complette the job for this that and the other reason (was that to strange a medifore?).....the images here 1st and for most should be art and everything after that comes 2nd........ photography
PHOTOGRAPHY IS CONSIDERED TO BE AN ART!!!!!!
now if u don't like what the person did with the image (u are commenting on) then say i don't like it because _____________, and if u do like it then say i do like this because ________________.
but please never assume that the photographer doesn't know his/her own pice and say this is out of focus or this is off in coloration........the photog. knows that they must the created it to be that way so if u don't see what is going on then just admit that u missed the photogs. point in the image.
after u didn't press the shutter did u?....and if u had then assume u would have done it your way....and come out with a product u liked....so then applie that to my image, bills image, ricks image, judys image.........etc. but please don't think i don't know what i did/was doing.....u can tell me how u think it would be more affective but don't tell me something i know about it and intended to be that way.
that is all......
carry on..........
_brando_ |
This is just plain silly. Even granted the blanket statement that "photography is an art" (and I don't think all photography IS "art", really, there are many flavors of it. Some potters make 'art", most pursue a "craft", and many are entirely utilitarian...), it still is true that an artist must master his/her tools. It's fundamental. The general thrust of your post, to me, is backward. You encourage our commetning on the artist's vision, which is the most "private part of his/her work, and discourage our commenting ont he craftsmanship, which is the most public and easily quantified part of the work.
To assume that a not-sharp image with a crooked horizon and too little contrast/saturation to display well is that way intentionally is way too broad a brush for me. While this may sometimnes be the case, I strongly doubt that it generally is. A significant percentage of the active population of DPC openly seeks input on craftsmanship issues. If in your case that's not true, there's no need to get exercised about it. You can just shrug off the input as irrelevant to your needs. It's pointless to lash out at people for saying what they think.
Robt.
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04/30/2005 04:11:55 PM · #48 |
Would be be better to say that instead of assuming it was intentional, that one should consider the possibility that it might have been?
-Terry
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04/30/2005 04:25:17 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Would be be better to say that instead of assuming it was intentional, that one should consider the possibility that it might have been?
-Terry |
sure but then don't just "its out of focus" if it is any1 can see that u are only stating a fact why not give the comment..... "i don't like what u have chosen to do with the focus" "or i don't like the image out of focus"
but all i'm saying is don't state facts in your comments
the was a man i a small town who had no sight(he was blind with or with out glasses) he did how ever come up with a camera that he could use and under stood with out seeing how to set it up for lighting and such.....ever day he would lissten to the radio and get the weather after which he would go out and take images of everything he heard.............the where all out of focus...............
but the amazing thing is when u see 1 of his prints u somehow see what is blurry what is not there u see what he heard and why he took the image comes to u......now he is not a famous photographer he was never published. he was just a friend's grandfather but when u look at the out of focus country roads the tiled horizons the old blurred model T fords passing through the hill side.....it takes u to a diffrent world.
now if i could do what the lost in time man has done........i would not like to have my vision taken down so quick by some1 who doesn't understand the art...but only sees the sience
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04/30/2005 04:56:48 PM · #50 |
oh my- this is a very tough thread. i have gotten a few emails already putting me down for my comments while voting is going on. this of course seems ridiculous. first off even the newbie that i am realize they just hung themselves to rip me a new one while the voting is still going on. a risk i would never take as based on the fact thqt they cut and pasted my comment it wasnt to hard to figure out which pic was theirs. second the one that abused me the worst was someone that i asked after the challenge was over could they help me learn how to take that type of shot as i feel they did it so well.
i learn alot from commenting as it really makes me look at all the aspects of the picture what i like and dont and how to shoot better.
"count on no one but yourself...then anything you get from others is gravy" |
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