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Showing posts 51 - 75 of 75, (reverse)
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 09/13/2005 04:59:33 PM · #51
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by joebok:
...why is any more incentive/rules/discussion/whatever necessary beyond just that? ...If people do get slammed, then that will tend to keep people from posting pictures from challenges that are being voted on.


Most of the time, it's newbies who post entries in the forums before the voting has ended. It's an innocent mistake, and we just ask them not to. It's really not a big deal.


Exactly - which is why I don't get all the hubub about this? But don't tell me, I really don't want to know...
 09/13/2005 05:56:01 PM · #52
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by joebok:
...why is any more incentive/rules/discussion/whatever necessary beyond just that? ...If people do get slammed, then that will tend to keep people from posting pictures from challenges that are being voted on.


Most of the time, it's newbies who post entries in the forums before the voting has ended. It's an innocent mistake, and we just ask them not to. It's really not a big deal.


The current situation polices itself fairly well when the SC monitors these forums. But what about when someone who posts an entry, or potential entry, elsewhere on the internet with info that identifies them as the photographer? I have heard of people posting a potential entry and asking viewers how they think it would score in the challenge; and of people posting several images and asking viewers to help them decide which to enter. Isn't that a more serious breach than an innocent newbie's faux-pas? And are we willing to do anything to try to prevent/discourage it?

I think it's entirely reasonable to expect of photogrpahers that an entry's appearance in voting is the first time it is seen on the internet; and it would be an easy, clear-cut, non-subjective call for SC to DQ violators.
09/13/2005 05:58:00 PM · #53
Funny, that sounds like a call for us to censor what people can do with their own photos on other sites. What an intriguing concept ...
 09/13/2005 06:02:25 PM · #54
Originally posted by coolhar:
But what about when someone who posts an entry, or potential entry, elsewhere on the internet... I have heard of people posting a potential entry and asking viewers how they think it would score in the challenge; and of people posting several images and asking viewers to help them decide which to enter.


I don't see much difference between that and asking a spouse, friend or co-worker for an opinion. When it's just a few people outside DPC, who cares? I don't expect everybody to work in solitary confinement.

Message edited by author 2005-09-13 18:03:09.
 09/13/2005 06:08:22 PM · #55
Originally posted by bear_music:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Are there any measures toward improving the level of anonymity that you could support?


I'd support prominent wording in the challenge submission field regarding anonymity and its benefits to the community. I would not be in favor of DQs for breach of anonymity. I would not be in favor of any "rules" that consider recognizable styles or locations to be actionable breaches of anonymity even IF the rule-makers decided to make prior or concurrent "publication" of a challenge entry a DQable offense.

Of course, I'm just one voice here :-)

Robt.

I agree that identifiable styles, locations or models should not be grounds for DQ. They are not always innocent mistakes; they can be attempts to gain a higher score. Let the voters take care of them when they become too egregious.

But, on the other hand, I find it difficult to accept that no breach of anonymity is offensive enough to the community to merit DQ, or other disciplinary action.
09/13/2005 06:13:10 PM · #56
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Funny, that sounds like a call for us to censor what people can do with their own photos on other sites. What an intriguing concept ...


Not really anything like censoring, just an effort to protect anonymity. People are free to whatever they want with their images. Just not allowed to enter one here that is identified as being the work of a particular photographer.

Why do you equate that with censorship?
09/13/2005 06:18:50 PM · #57
Because when we have done it here, people (person) said it was censorship if it wasn't a "rule."
 09/13/2005 06:19:14 PM · #58
But why on earth is anonymity important? I would contend that challenge results would not substantially change if there were a "by" line during voting.
 09/13/2005 06:24:14 PM · #59
I have an interesting thought (maybe)...what if someone posts a photo to a forum that has a subject not so uncommon. Then someone enters an image in a challenge that is very similar but isn't the person who posted in the forum - and did so innocently not knowing about the other image...

With verbiage in the 'rules' "suggesting" that posting a challenge entry in the forums is grounds for possible scoring hits, the innocent challenge entry gets knocked down without just cause. That would not be fun.
 09/13/2005 06:24:53 PM · #60
This latest suggestion, re: having members notify SC if they see a challenge entry posted elsewhere, is tantamount to turning the membership into a vigilante force. Do we really want to do that? I can honestly say I've NEVER seen a challenge entry posted elsewhere, and I doubt most of our members have. Is this really worth making a rule to cover? Maybe I'm naive...

One thing I do know; I'm perfectly capable of judging an image on its own merits regardless if I know the maker of that image or not; and I think most of us can handle that, I really do.

I have, on a few occasions, been asked my opinion on an image that ends up in a challenge later. I'm sure this happens with fair frequency. I've certainly asked others for their opinions from time to time. It seems to me any community will do this. It's not a problem for me. Apparently it is for some...

R.
 09/13/2005 06:25:41 PM · #61
Originally posted by karmat:
Because when we have done it here, people (person) said it was censorship if it wasn't a "rule."

censor - To examine and expurgate.
expurgate - edit by omitting or modifying parts considered indelicate

would you say that's about right?
 09/13/2005 06:26:40 PM · #62
I've said it before and I'll say it again...



Would anyone else like a stick? :)
 09/13/2005 06:27:14 PM · #63
Originally posted by scalvert:
I don't see much difference between that and asking a spouse, friend or co-worker for an opinion. When it's just a few people outside DPC, who cares? I don't expect everybody to work in solitary confinement.

The difference is that is is pretty public. When your image is on a site like SmugMug, pBase, PAD or PhotoSig; or maybe POTD at Kodak, PowerShotUser or Steve's, it's not "just a few people outside DPC". And that difference makes it very easily controlled compared to asking one's spouse for advice.

As far as I can tell hbunch is the only one of you to speak up for anonymity. Doesn't anyone else on Site Council believe in anonymity as being essential to the dpc concept?
09/13/2005 06:29:05 PM · #64
Originally posted by laurielblack:
I've said it before and I'll say it again...



Would anyone else like a stick? :)


Sure.

09/13/2005 06:33:37 PM · #65
Originally posted by coolhar:
Doesn't anyone else on Site Council believe in anonymity as being essential to the dpc concept?


My personal opinion on this doesn't matter much in the context of Site Council. We're only supposed to help enforce the rules, and anonymity ain't one of them.
 09/13/2005 06:48:57 PM · #66
Originally posted by bear_music:
This latest suggestion, re: having members notify SC if they see a challenge entry posted elsewhere, is tantamount to turning the membership into a vigilante force. Do we really want to do that? I can honestly say I've NEVER seen a challenge entry posted elsewhere, and I doubt most of our members have. Is this really worth making a rule to cover? Maybe I'm naive...

One thing I do know; I'm perfectly capable of judging an image on its own merits regardless if I know the maker of that image or not; and I think most of us can handle that, I really do.

I have, on a few occasions, been asked my opinion on an image that ends up in a challenge later. I'm sure this happens with fair frequency. I've certainly asked others for their opinions from time to time. It seems to me any community will do this. It's not a problem for me. Apparently it is for some...

R.


I wouldn't go so far as to call you naive Robert. But I would ask that you, and others, refrain from using inflamatory buzzwords (like vigilante and censorship) in what some of us are trying to keep on the level of serious, civil debate. Same goes for the off topic gifs. If you don't have something pertinent to contribute, please excuse yourself.

Asking people to report a challenge entry posted elsewhere on the internet isn't much different that asking them to request a DQ for an editing rules violation, or asking them to report an objectionable forum post. It just helps the SC to do their job.

You may think that you can be totally objective when judging images by known photographers but that is too much to expect from the community at large. joebok's suggestion that we add a "by" line to entries would take us to DigitalPopularityChallenge in a hurry.

I, personally, know of two occasions where challenge entries were posted on other, public websites. One was a very popular forum contributer so his offense against anonymity was passed off without any negative action. The other did not score very high and gained no public notice at all, but some PMs were exchanged. I'm sure there are others that I don't know asout. How many are you willing to tolerate?
09/13/2005 06:56:47 PM · #67
I'll be the first to admit that I've posted shots I've used here on other sites...my PaD, my smugmug gallery, other photography forums of which I am a member, other contest sites. I guess I should turn in my membership card, but realize that doing all that hasn't garnered me umpteen ribbons nor has it brought me millions of adoring fans. Most people don't notice, and the few that do don't really give a rat's fanny. I know it doesn't bother me to see what folks from here post on other sites...especially if it's good work! :)
 09/13/2005 07:00:29 PM · #68
I didn't read the entire thread, but think the idea of doing a challenge where your name is the title of the photograph is not a bad idea, just for fun's sake ;-)
 09/13/2005 07:01:55 PM · #69
Yep, the horse seems very dead. I can't add a lot to the (sometimes) eloquent arguments already presented, except to say that the SC will of course continue to very diligiently "strongly encourage" maintenance of anonymity, however enforcing it as a stric rule is not possible, given the numerous ways, many unintentional, in which it can be given away.
Many thanks to all those users who hold it in high regard, and do try valiantly to maintain it. My hat (and apparently my hiar as well) is off to you.
 09/13/2005 07:08:50 PM · #70
Originally posted by laurielblack:
Most people don't notice, and the few that do don't really give a rat's fanny.


Exactly. DPCers are quick to cry foul when a challenge image is posted in the forums here, and they're removed pronto. I value anonymity in the challenges, but posting an image to another site during voting is NOT a DQ-able offense (they're listed specifically in the rules), and pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It's really no different than someone privately emailing the image to friends and relatives, and we certainly can't police THAT!

If someone sees one of my images posted elsewhere during a challenge and is thusly offended or incapable of rendering a fair vote with the knowledge that the shot is mine, he's more than welcome to skip it or give me a 1. Surely that's reasonable enough punishment.

Message edited by author 2005-09-13 19:11:57.
 09/13/2005 07:36:31 PM · #71
Originally posted by kirbic:
Yep, the horse seems very dead. I can't add a lot to the (sometimes) eloquent arguments already presented, except to say that the SC will of course continue to very diligiently "strongly encourage" maintenance of anonymity, however enforcing it as a stric rule is not possible, given the numerous ways, many unintentional, in which it can be given away.
Many thanks to all those users who hold it in high regard, and do try valiantly to maintain it. My hat (and apparently my hiar as well) is off to you.


While it shouldn't be necessary to enforce courtesy, (anonymity is indeed a courtesy) it is enforced in other aspects of the site. That is what makes this site a pleasure to use and participate in.

Thanks SC.
 09/13/2005 07:57:57 PM · #72
Please don't searck www.flickr.com I posted my challenge pics there in the past. :P Luckily I checked the boxes "Friends & Family" only viewable. And I told them they were not allowed to use both Flickr and dpchallenge as it was a conflict of interest and could jeperdise at least .1 - .2 of a score on my outcome.

Thank you, Drive through.
 12/10/2005 12:20:00 PM · #73
c'mon, folks. Although this is very important to alot of us, it is, in fact, "fun and games" and doesn't have a baring on much of anything. Besides, if anynomity is all that important, why do my entries end up posted in my portfolio before voting is over?
 12/10/2005 12:21:18 PM · #74
Originally posted by dewed:
c'mon, folks. Although this is very important to alot of us, it is, in fact, "fun and games" and doesn't have a baring on much of anything. Besides, if anynomity is all that important, why do my entries end up posted in my portfolio before voting is over?


Noone can see your currently running entry in your portfilio until after voting is finished. Only you can see it there.
12/10/2005 12:22:31 PM · #75
Since we have a current thread on this here, let's not dredge up this old one and have two going.
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