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08/07/2002 10:12:40 AM · #26 |
I dont think there should be a difference ... just always keep in mind of possibly offending someone - no matter what age they are.
We are all here to learn from one another ... and to hae fun ... so let''s keep it that way
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/7/2002 10:14:16 AM.
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08/07/2002 10:42:34 AM · #27 |
How about makeing it so the kids parents can delete comments so the kid never knows it was even there?
Tim |
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08/07/2002 10:46:20 AM · #28 |
tim, how would we stop everyone from deleting comments?
i agree with much of what has been said here.
- try to leave constructive comments that wouldn't upset adults or children.
- don't distinguish between adults and kids.
- parents that allow their children to participate on this site (which, btw, i think is great) need to work out with their children what access the children have to the site, and how they are going to deal with any of the 'crank' comments that they will get once in a while.
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08/07/2002 11:02:04 AM · #29 |
| I agree with gr8photos on this one. My daughter is one of those that participates on this site, both as a photographer and as a voter. She is 8. I read her comments with her, so that I can help explain some of the technical terms such as DOF and also to explain to her that some people can be mean and that she should pay no attention to them. Thankfully she has only gotten a couple of comments like that, fewer than I have. |
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08/07/2002 11:27:10 AM · #30 |
| This is a tough one because I know a 9 year old who votes and submits to this site. I wouldn't like to see the kids labeled for a couple of reasons. I was uncomfortable with the photo that had the child's age in the title last week. I felt horribly guilty giving it the score that I would have given without a second thought had I not known the photographer was 12. I didn't like feeling like I should have scored it higher just because he posted his age. I agree that our comments shouldn't be hurtful no matter who is reading them. I don't think labeling the participants is an answer though. |
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08/07/2002 11:39:23 AM · #31 |
doh!
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/7/2002 11:44:58 AM. |
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08/07/2002 11:45:22 AM · #32 |
double doh!
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/7/2002 11:45:11 AM. |
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08/07/2002 11:45:35 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
I'm not sure about the exact laws, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to collect information about kids under 14 without their parents' permission on the internet. Putting them into a specially marked group or giving them their own site is like asking to put me in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
Drew
Drew - I'm no expert on this since I'm not american, but I am a professional web designer and programmer so I've come across the rules you're alluding to and this is my interpretation of your responsibilities as an american web site owner under those rules:
It is illegal to collect and store personal information for site users under the age of 13. Personal information includes but is not limited to their real name, their address, their email address, their age (except in so much as you must determine whether they are under 13).
If my reading of the rules is correct then you are already breaking them with your current registration page.
If I'm right then you should be adding a check box asking whether the user is under 13 and if they are then you should not be storing any personal information about them.
Sorry if this is unexpectedly bad news. Sorry also if I've misunderstood the rules. I'll go and see if I can find the actual letters of your law in a moment. I'll post here again if I find it.
John
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/7/2002 11:46:07 AM. |
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08/07/2002 12:03:58 PM · #34 |
Ok I've found the Federal Trade Commission's page on "The Children's Online Privacy Protection Rule", which has aparrently been US law for a couple of years now. You can find their full description of how to comply with the law here.
But for those of you that can't be bothered to dig through that very long page, here's my interpretation of it:
Website operators running websites aimed at children or running general audience websites where the owner has actual knowledge that they are collecting personal information from children under 13 must comply with the law. The law is that the site operator must publish a privacy policy describing how the personal data will be used. See that link for specifics of what must go in the policy. See that link also for where links to that policy must be placed within the site. The law also states that in order to collect any information from an under 13 year old child website operators must have verifiable parental consent. They must obtain this before collecting any personal information from the child. Personal information is defined as full name, home address, email address, telephone number or any other information that could be used to identify or contact the child. Also included as personal information are hobbies, interests or information collected through cookies or other types of tracking mechanisms - when they are tied to individually identifiable information.
Once again - sorry if this is bad news.
John
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/7/2002 12:05:03 PM. |
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08/13/2002 08:42:15 AM · #35 |
I have several younger brothers and sisters (aged as young as 5yo)
also I am only just an adult (21yo).. I have carried out personal (non formal) studies into child psycology and my mother has the better part of a degree in child phycology (and a heap of practical experiance :) )
I have also worked with diabled and mentally ill persons.
So I have some strong views on children and education...
First, there should be a are you 14yo or younger question on sign-up with a parental permission form for legal and identification reasons..
also It should detail for parents the difference between an adult and a child account... personally at 12 or 13 I would have lied about my age or entered my parents details myself! but I was pretty computer savy and had seen more than tastefull nudes... but the legal issues remain.
BTW most people 14yo and over can handle the level of critic I've seen posted (and can desern the slander ~:-( ) and has seen tasteful nudes at school etc....
Second, there needs to be a system where by tastefull nudes and other?? photos unappropreate for children can be identified when submitted.
Third, there needs to be stronger filtering of content.. is content currently filtered??
I do feel at review time that content submitted needs to be identified if it is submited by sub 14yo persons. I have seen a few "CRAP photo" statements and I know that my sister at age 12 would have cried seeing a comment like that about her work and now aged 14 would ignore it. Also PM and comments should be auto-filtered and screened by moderated by moderators (as outlined to parents on sign-up) to prevent any "undesirables" tring to cercumvent/missuse the system.
Personally, I vote on the images the same... even if I know the photographer .. camera used(I can tell often tell due to lensflares, noise, SuperCCD jaggies, EXIF data)... age.. username .... etc
Even the title!! I only award bonus points for very clever titles.
I also studied Industrial Design and have reseived "strong critic" and know how to defend my work.. I also can at times give "strong critic" of a persons work... for example jmsetzler's own image of a plate of food that he posted "for critic". I was carefull to look at jmsetzler's profile and to look at his current level of work befor commenting. And I was suitably honest and criticed him at a pro level (where I feel his work is)... When voting you don't know anything about the photographer so it is hard to taylor the comments to the right level. I also know, at age 16, I would have wanted adult level critic. Knowing that the person is under 14yo allow's us to critic and give advise at a level where they can grow and become productive members of DPC.
Maybe an option for those people who are more emotionally driven and less critical to turn off child identification..??
I am prepared to help setup such a system,
(I know ASP,PHP,MYSQL,XHTML. My job is multimedia & web design)
Admin's / Moderator's feel free to PM about this...
I believe children should be able to artisticly express themselves, to a public audience and get positive feed back! In fact I think it is an important educational development.
I personally plan to lend my camera to my sister ,once it's insured!
(But then it was the biggist single purchase in my life.. next to my computer ;-) but that's another story...)
Also I have seen many children produce better artwork than many famous artist (esp modern, conceptual and proformance artists!)
Wow.. did I just write ALL that? |
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08/13/2002 09:13:51 AM · #36 |
I hate to say it, but frankly it seems easier to just ban kids under 14 than to force Drew and Langdon to make modifications such as content filtering or screening comments and messages. Not every place on the web is appropriate for children. It seemed like the parents here were content with the way things were and were doing a good job of policing their kids. I'd just as soon leave things the way they are, but not if it gets DPC in trouble or creates a ton of extra work. Maybe someone ought to start a kid site similar to DPC.
My 2¢.
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08/13/2002 09:31:57 AM · #37 |
I think an easier to implement solution might be this... If the parent of a child younger than 14 wants thier child to participate, they should create an account in the parent's name with all the info being the parent's info... email, age, etc... Let there be a note (bio seems a good place for this) that the photos from this account are submitted on behalf of thier kid... The parent can then decide what level of involvement thier child can handle... I'm sure some parents might give an older child full control while some will read the comments and decide which ones thier child should see...
This would free D&L from having to jump through legal hoops and also keep them from having to parent our kids for us.
I guess when it comes to the internet and kids, I feel that parents are the best filters.
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/13/2002 9:35:34 AM. |
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08/13/2002 09:44:25 AM · #38 |
| a guy who was on the site suggested exactly that a few months ago, myqyl |
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08/13/2002 09:46:06 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
I guess when it comes to the internet and kids, I feel that parents are the best filters.
I agree completely.
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08/13/2002 09:54:38 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by clay:
a guy who was on the site suggested exactly that a few months ago, myqyl
Oops, sorry to be redundant, again & repeatedly :) I'm still a lil new here :) |
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08/13/2002 09:59:48 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
I think an easier to implement solution might be this... If the parent of a child younger than 14 wants thier child to participate, they should create an account in the parent's name with all the info being the parent's info... email, age, etc... Let there be a note (bio seems a good place for this) that the photos from this account are submitted on behalf of thier kid... The parent can then decide what level of involvement thier child can handle... I'm sure some parents might give an older child full control while some will read the comments and decide which ones thier child should see...
This would free D&L from having to jump through legal hoops and also keep them from having to parent our kids for us.
I guess when it comes to the internet and kids, I feel that parents are the best filters.
While this sounds like a good solution, I'd suggest it gets verified
by a lawyer that is aware of internet regulations on this topic.
It just takes one idiot and then one parent trying to sue to get the
whole place shut down.
CYA is a PIA but a lot of the time it is the best way to go in America,
it seems.
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08/13/2002 10:27:46 AM · #42 |
Since it is tougher for a kid to take (even constructive) criticism, some accompanying encouragement might help temper an otherwise harsh commentary.
sjgleah,
To be honest I think it is easier for a child to take criticism then it is for us. My boy is #1 Bronco Fan. He submitted a photo in this challenge. The comments he is getting are helping him become a better photogragher. He had a hard time with the crued comments at first, but then I showed him who made the comments and their photos in their profile. He felt better. I think we should keep things the way they are.
Keep encouraging her, if she really wants to take photos she will lift her head high and keep shooting. :)
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08/13/2002 10:38:02 AM · #43 |
| This may be a little off topic: But I was wondering what ages you adults class as kids. Do you mean very young children, under 10ish, or maybe by the law, which is under 18. Just wondering. |
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08/13/2002 11:01:07 AM · #44 |
| I think it is 13 and younger. Hopefully they won't kick the kids out. |
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08/13/2002 11:02:38 AM · #45 |
I believe the strictest of US Internet law is for children 13 and under. I think there are more limited restrictions for minors from 14 to 17.
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08/13/2002 11:15:32 AM · #46 |
| youre not being redundant, myqyl. the person who suggested this had the idea rejected and left because of the close minded nature of most participants. |
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08/13/2002 11:18:15 AM · #47 |
I'm curious - how does everyone feel about children as young as 9 voting?
I have a 15 yr old who votes and submits.
I also have an 11 yr old (who may start to submit) and I personally don't feel he is ready to vote on photos.
Are the 9 year olds voting on their own? Or are the parents influencing the votes?
Just curious.
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08/13/2002 11:40:15 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by TerryGee:
I also have an 11 yr old (who may start to submit) and I personally don't feel he is ready to vote on photos.
I'd say you are the best judge of your child's ability... One 11 year old might be able to objectively and fairly vote while another might not... If and when my lil bundle of carbon based life starts voting, I will insist that she not vote on my shot and I will not vote on her's (for obvious reasons). Beyond that, I'd say you as a parent will likely know when your child is old enough to vote. |
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08/13/2002 11:41:26 AM · #49 |
| i really dont think a little kid should even vote here. im sure many excellent photos have received 1's because an 8 year old didnt find it pretty enough |
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08/13/2002 11:42:15 AM · #50 |
What I'd like to see is a way to "block" seeing specific comments and/or all comments from a specific photographer. Then as a parent, I could screen out rude comments before letting my child view her results.
Most other sites and messenger programs already have this concept of an ignore-list. |
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