The Team Suck Clubhouse - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/10/2007 06:47:48 AM · #1701

Stop by and read the latest interview with

Noraneko over here.

Interviews with Formerlee and Kelli will be posted later today.

liltritter

Nikon D70s

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6D ED

03/10/2007 07:00:22 AM · #1702

nikonjeb:

I always forget to look before I close... I'm hoping there is a way to have it save with the file. I might start capturing the work (video). Most of the shots I really like I get when I am just board and playing around. ( the fire dragon) I never seem to be able to duplicate it. But thank you. I am hoping that my next photo op (17th) turns out a bit better then my last. For safety I will be using my 70-300 and shooting a very large jump. The drivers tend to forget to slow down and tend to fly......... IM NOT GETTING CLOSE lol. Still hoping for a shooting buddy ... Hint to my fellow team mates LOL.

Greetmir

Nikon D60

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Nikon

03/10/2007 08:37:00 AM · #1703

Hey Jeb ... I left you a comment too ... I hope you did not think it too critical ...

maxaz1

Canon PowerShot S5 IS

03/10/2007 09:11:00 AM · #1704

Hello Jeb-
I commented too. And I had a thought (which is a singularly momentous event!) I wrote to you in my comment that critiquing is hard. There shoud be a thread or a forum for critiquing critiques.

What say you all? Would that thread be worthwhile? Or do you naturally get to be a better critiquer when your photos don't suck so much? If that's the case, I better keep my mouth closed...er...my fingers off the keys for a while.

Anyway, I'm off to a photography workshop offered by the local community college today.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/10/2007 09:16:48 AM · #1705

Originally posted by maxaz1:

There shoud be a thread or a forum for critiquing critiques.

I don't know what the logistics of such a thread would be, but I agree with the importance of a good critique. I find it unfortunate that there is a cavalier, dismissive attitude at this site towards learning how to better appreciate and critique photos. The only thing you're supposed to learn here is how to take photos. It's a crass form of artistic materialism, emphasis on product with no concern for the experience that occurs between product and consumer.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/10/2007 09:19:11 AM · #1706

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by maxaz1:
There shoud be a thread or a forum for critiquing critiques.

I don't know what the logistics of such a thread would be, but I agree with the importance of a good critique. I find it unfortunate that there is a cavalier, dismissive attitude at this site towards learning how to better appreciate and critique photos. The only thing you're supposed to learn here is how to take photos. It's a crass form of artistic materialism, emphasis on product with no concern for the experience that occurs between product and consumer.

what they said.

noraneko

Canon EOS R5

03/10/2007 09:22:08 AM · #1707

I'll bet

Xianart could teach some good critiquing tips, as she has an art degree and presumably lots of experiece with both giving and receiving. If you'd be so kind as to share, Christian?

Edit to add: thanks for the great comments on my portfolio photos, BTW!

Message edited by author 2007-03-10 09:22:51.

maxaz1

Canon PowerShot S5 IS

03/10/2007 09:23:46 AM · #1708

It just seems like when you post a photo, you really put yourself out there. I for one, would like to learn how to be more constructive or more helpful, as well as not feeling so worried about saying the "wrong thing". Turns out, when you critique, you put yourself out there too!

Greetmir

Nikon D60

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Nikon

03/10/2007 09:58:38 AM · #1709

What Maxine said ... but I don't worry so much about it ... I just speak my mind while trying to not be rude ...

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

03/10/2007 10:13:10 AM · #1710

ok, so , critiquing. sometimes all you have time for is a quick wow! there's nothing wrong with that. but, constructive cirticism is a great way to learn how to look and analyze your own images as well.

a very good book is Ways of Seeing by john Berger. it isn't so much about critiquing as it is about how we look at images. it gives great insight to how western culture uses images.

i supose the first thing to remember about critiquing is how you look at an image.

first, i just let it wash over me; no analysis, just how does it make me feel. do i like it or not? look at it for a while. often, the first impression gives way to another after a few seconds or minutes of viewing.

next, start to explore why it makes you feel as it does. why do you like it? why not? try to push yourself to give valid, detailed reasons. ask yourself questions. is it the colour i like? why? what do the colours make me feel? do i like that particular cast?

then i think about what the artist was trying to convey with the image. does my reaction tally with what i think he was trying to do? has she done it well?

then look at the technical side of the picture. look at the angles, how the image is constructed. is it awkward, or pleasant? does the awkwardness work? how could the composition be improved?

then the exposure and other tech stuff. does everything work together to help the image, or are there stray elemetns that distract?

when i start o crit, i try to be constructive. you are trying to help, and people don't listen if you attack them. so i usually start with a positive comment - if it's a great shot, and you like every part of it, start with that. if it's shot that needs a lot of work, i'll sometimes start with a line like 'a good start. i like the ..... in this image, it has good ....' there must always be something you can find that's good. then, talk about how the image makes you feel. this doen'st have to be a long essay, just a little about the visceral reaction you get to the image.

then you can move on to the technical side of things. of course, it's easy if you like it, less so if it needs work. again, i always try to couch thenegatives with a positive. for instance: 'while the angle of the fence is interesting, i think your compostition would be much stronger if you cropped a bit on the right, so the line of the fence isn't a pure, corner to corner diagonal. this would lend more visual interest to the image.'

i try to steer away from blanket statements like 'the image would be better', 'i don't like', etc. i try to use workds like stronger, dramatic, calmer, etc.

i think most of us would like critiques that are honest, repsectful and helpful. think of how you'd like a crit to be worded, and you'll probably seldom get flamed for it. not all of my crits have beenmarked hlepful, but i've had no complaints from anyone. so, i guess that's ok?

snaffles

Nikon D7100

03/10/2007 10:14:21 AM · #1711

Hey all!

Kashi, I'm about 40 min southeast of Ottawa if you're ever in the area. The only other dpc'er in these parts, to my knowledge, is shudderbug - and she's awfully difficult to pin down!

Glad to see Mist and Jeb back, missed them both...now down to the nitty gritty...

Furniture
Votes: 172
Views: 225
Avg Vote: 5.2035
Comments: 4

Alternative Medicine
Votes: 178
Views: 241
Avg Vote: 4.6292
Comments: 7

Is there something wonky with the site today? All comments are now bagheaded. even those that weren't before.

I'm in for Circle II, shot it in haste this morning and pp'd it at warp speed. I think it should be a troll-pleaser shot (it's well-lit, in sharp focus and I really gave the colours a good saturating and contrast) but gawd knows I've been wrong before!

off to vote now, I've never been a baghead before...

Greetmir

Nikon D60

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Nikon

03/10/2007 10:29:41 AM · #1712

Hey Christian ... I cut and pasted your post for further deliberation and advice ... thanks for posting it ...

Hipychik

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

03/10/2007 10:49:06 AM · #1713

THANK YOU

xianart! I have such a hard time with this. I know when I like or don't like a photo but I have a hard time putting it into words and I would never want to hurt anyones feelings. So sometimes it's easier to not comment at all. This really helps.

noraneko

Canon EOS R5

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/10/2007 11:05:25 AM · #1714

Christian, good stuff! Thanks much for sharing.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/10/2007 11:05:49 AM · #1715

you're welcome, all!

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

03/10/2007 11:17:47 AM · #1716

Originally posted by hipychik:

THANK YOU xianart! I have such a hard time with this. I know when I like or don't like a photo but I have a hard time putting it into words and I would never want to hurt anyones feelings. So sometimes it's easier to not comment at all. This really helps.

I have nearly 10000 comments made (well, not quite, but I'm getting there) and while I don't have an art degree and in fact am a scientist by training, I figure everyone generally appreciates knowing how their work is seen by other eyes. I don't offer a lot of help in some instances (mostly because I don't know how) but I'm always willing to offer my opinion as to whether *I* like it and, if I can explain, why I like it. I'll also offer why I don't like something but I always couch it as my opinion. In all those comments, I've not received more than two nastygrams in return. So go for it. If something strikes you, one way or another, comment on it.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/10/2007 11:29:19 AM · #1717

The novice critiquer is fine. Saying "I like this!" or "Wow!" or "I don't get it." is a valid, honest response that could potentially be very helpful to a photographer. But the road to more "advanced" critique is fraught with peril. The mistake that I see most often is that in an attempt to get more technical, the critiquer discards his initial reaction. Instead, he clings to certain "rules" that he picked up from other critiques. With some nice easy pattern recognition, voila... instant critique! Let's see,

is it in focus?
what is the depth of field?
is the subject on the thirds? it better not be centered!

and so on and so on. As you get more "advanced" you might try to come to a conclusion about the photo based on your list.

But this approach is backwards! Remember, a photo is meant to appeal to a viewer, not a critiquer. As

xianart said, get a first impression before you start analyzing. Take a moment to feel your response. Many times, you won't feel anything. That's perfectly normal. Most photos don't generate any feeling. That's why the ones that do are so special. The more you do this, take a moment to feel, the more refined your feelings will become (or your ability to observe your feelings, same difference). Feelings of like or dislike will refine into feelings such as "this almost makes me feel good but something gets in the way" or "I tell myself this is boring because it brings up a sadness I don't want to look at."

Once you have your impression, only then do you look at technical aspects to see how they relate to that impression. Centering, thirds, cropping, etc., have no inherent goodness or badness. they are just tools that create an overall effect.

And that brings me to another point. You don't ever have to talk about goodness and badness. You can just talk about the effect the picture has on you, the effect it almost has and why it doesn't quite achieve that effect, etc. Then it's up to the photographer to decide what effect he really wants to achieve.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/10/2007 11:44:00 AM · #1718

what he said!

noraneko

Canon EOS R5

03/10/2007 11:50:42 AM · #1719

Speaking of comments, I love receiving them good or bad. In fact, the comments that point out something that could be changed to make the photo better - even if they aren't couched in nice words - are very helpful to me. I don't always take the advice given, but appreciate receiving it. The only comments I don't appreciate are those written in sarcasm. Luckily I seem to have a pretty thick skin - if I take a photo that sucks (happens all the time!) I just move on.

bmartuch

Nikon D7200

Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G

03/10/2007 12:38:01 PM · #1720

I am one of these people that don't know the finer points of analyzing a photo. For me, it's whether I like it or not. I can find some things like Don said but I'm certainly not a master.

I can't tell if it covers the tonal range properly. I can explain the luminosity. But I can say "WOW, that's F#(&!%G great! I love it".

I think some people put too much into the technical aspect of a photo and loose track of the emotional side of it. Just my opinion!!!

quiet_observation

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/10/2007 04:10:42 PM · #1721

I just found out that I am a winner in the Philadelphia Center for the Photographic Image photography competition, PhotoImage â��07. Here is the website.

A friend noticed this on the website and emailed me - I haven't received official notice yet so I don't even know which photograph will be in the exhibit.

Green beer for everyone!

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

03/10/2007 04:14:49 PM · #1722

Hi everyone. Here's an update on

JerseyGenie, who I just spoke to on the phone.

She ended up staying in the hospital here until last Monday - that was 2 weeks here. Her insurance finally came through and paid for an ambulance, which is a relief. They took her to a rehab center about 10 miles from home.

Yesterday she had what they hope will be her last surgery. They removed the contraption that had stabilized her leg and put in pins, screws, and assorted hardware. Turns out she'd broken it in at least 10 pieces!

She hopes to be back at the rehab center on Monday or Tuesday, where she'll spend a couple of weeks before finally getting to go home. Then it'll be at least 2 months without standing or walking.

She and her husband Tom weren't sure about returning to work. They have to see how it goes in rehab, especially whether she can get into a wheelchair on her own.

I'll let you all know when I next hear from them.

To remind you, here are a couple of the shots I took of her in the hospital a couple of weeks ago:

Message edited by author 2007-03-10 16:15:03.

SteveJ