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11/13/2002 12:42:43 PM · #76 |
Maybe I should get back in the running with my Sony FD-91... You'd still almost double my res Mag... ;-)
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11/13/2002 12:56:57 PM · #77 |
| Go for it Patella! At 640x480 thats only 307200 pixels. Even at .9 Megapixels you have to throw away almost 2/3 of the pixels anyway. Come on, join the party. . . |
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11/13/2002 01:00:02 PM · #78 |
well.. harder :P. in my 'good camera', i have a better lens, more control, and more pixels to play with. there's a reason these things cost more :)..
That said, working with a less advanced camera means that you have to play more to the strengths of the camera. part of using a given piece of equipment is knowing what it's strengths, and weaknesses, are. for example i wouldnt try to do high speed action photography with my logitech webcam .. etc. . .
once you know the limitations, you can work within those parameters and produce some decent images. that's hopefully what i'm going to do with this challenge. i've already determined i can't do anywhere near the level of macro i would do with the a10 vs. the e-10 .. : )
i think a more expensive advanced camera mostly buys you flexibility to produce acceptable images within a wider variety of conditions.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]yep, already started messing around ; ) ..
So - are you finding it easier or harder to get good shots ?[/i]
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11/13/2002 01:01:03 PM · #79 |
Are we actually shooting at the 640x480 res? Or are we shooting the max we can and sampling/resizing/cropping down?
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11/13/2002 01:05:50 PM · #80 |
i COULD use a kodak dc-50. fixed focus, no controls.
but i dont think i want to go that low ..
my motivation for this was just that I wanted to quiet the allusions that it's predominantly the camera that has the skill, not the photog, by using a much more basic cam than normal.
i'm not forcing anyone else to jump on the bandwagon altho the idea sure seems to have caught on .. : )
however, any restraints you place on yourself are at your own risk : )
more power to ya !!
Originally posted by Patella:
Maybe I should get back in the running with my Sony FD-91... You'd still almost double my res Mag... ;-)
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11/13/2002 01:07:14 PM · #81 |
| I'd think to shoot at the highest you can, kind of like the normal challenge. I was just getting at the fact that .9 Megapixels is still over the size of the shot we submit at the 640x480. My Aiptek won't let me change to 640x480 so I need to be able to shoot in it's native format. It has been suggested in the "New Ideas" thread that we do a 640x480 shot challenge though. |
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11/13/2002 01:39:23 PM · #82 |
Gord, Mag,
Since you guys are moderators maybe you can answer something for me. I don't think my little Aiptek stores EXIF data. It's like I said above, you pretty much point, click and pray you got the shot. If it doesn't have the EXIF data is that going to be a problem for the challenge?
(Posted here rather than PM in case someone else may need to know)
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11/13/2002 01:50:35 PM · #83 |
I would love to play in this game, BUT, I figure since i spent the first six months or so at DPC using a 1.3 mp camera, i've earned my wings! :-)
Just for the record, when i got the 707, i gave the s30 to my husband. He has beaten my score a couple of times. It really isn't all equipment. It may be "easier" with a larger camera, but the trick, as has been said earlier, is to learn the limitations of the smaller ones, and work within them.
I like to use a bicycling analogy. If I were on a high dollar road bike, and Lance Armstrong was on my clunky old Huffy Mountain Bike, he would still beat my butt in a race.
As much as i would like to dream that the 707 would cure my photography ailments, it jsut isn't so. I still have to work, durn it! (Can you imagine that!) :-)
Have fun guys! |
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11/13/2002 01:56:00 PM · #84 |
Seeker -- my Sony doesn't save the EXIF either. Hasn't ever been a problem -- it's only REALLY a concern if people wonder about the validity of your image. I figure if I get DQed for an honest image, then I just did a REALLY good job with the camera. :-)
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11/13/2002 02:19:09 PM · #85 |
what 'tella said ..
Originally posted by Seeker:
Gord, Mag,
Since you guys are moderators maybe you can answer something for me. I don't think my little Aiptek stores EXIF data. It's like I said above, you pretty much point, click and pray you got the shot. If it doesn't have the EXIF data is that going to be a problem for the challenge?
(Posted here rather than PM in case someone else may need to know)
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11/13/2002 02:35:39 PM · #86 |
No, because the lens is also SMALLER in a prosumer camera. Also, the CCD on a prosumer camera will not be able to resolve as much details as a larger sensor in the SLR's. The reason is due to the sensor size + the lens size, the SLR clearly has the advantage here.
There are numerous tests, etc. that shows the D30 will easily beat 5 mp cameras in the prosumer world. Both in sensor noise + resolving power. Just because it's advertise as 5 mp, doesn't mean it can resolve 5 mp worth of resolution. This is the reason why the Canon G3 does not upgrade to a 5 mp sensor, they kept it at 4 mp. Even then it is still inferior to the D30. You can check out some of the tests on dpreview.com Look at the section that describes absolute resolution, noise level, etc. The lenses for the D30 is also better than the lenses for any prosumer cameras.
Originally posted by timj351:
Paganini, isn't the sensor in the D60 larger then the sensors in prosumer cameras like the F707 or Dimage7? And aren't all things relative? My point is can't an F8 on the F707 produce roughly the same DOF as F16 on the D60? The F-stops are only relative to the individual cameras. I also wouldn't say that the D30 EASILY beats the prosumer cameras that have 5mp sensors. There are definite advantages to the D30 including speed and interchangeable lenses but I wouldn't say that the actual quality of the photos is as wide a margin as you suggest. I'm not a technical expert on these cameras. This is just based on studying photos and reading up on the various cameras.
T
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11/13/2002 02:47:29 PM · #87 |
actually, according to dpreview, the absolute resolution of the f707 is MUCH higher than the d30 .. : )
F707
abs res. extinction res.
horiz LPH 1450 1800
Vert LPH 1300 1800
5o Diagonal LPH 1000 n/a
D30
Horiz LPH 1100 1350
Vert LPH 1150 1300
5o Diagonal LPH 1000 n/a
where
LPH = Lines per Picture Height (to allow for different aspect ratios the measurement is the same for horizontal and vertical)
5o Diagonal Lines set at 5o diagonal
Absolute Resolution = Still defined detail (below Nyquist frequency*)
Extinction Resolution = Detail beyond camera's definition (becomes a solid gray alias)
n/a Not Available (above the capability of the test chart)
n/v Not Visible (not visible on test results)
Originally posted by paganini:
There are numerous tests, etc. that shows the D30 will easily beat 5 mp cameras in the prosumer world. Both in sensor noise + resolving power. Just because it's advertise as 5 mp, doesn't mean it can resolve 5 mp worth of resolution. ... You can check out some of the tests on dpreview.com Look at the section that describes absolute resolution, noise level, etc. The lenses for the D30 is also better than the lenses for any prosumer cameras.
Originally posted by timj351:
[i]Paganini, isn't the sensor in the D60 larger then the sensors in prosumer cameras like the F707 or Dimage7? And aren't all things relative? My point is can't an F8 on the F707 produce roughly the same DOF as F16 on the D60? The F-stops are only relative to the individual cameras. I also wouldn't say that the D30 EASILY beats the prosumer cameras that have 5mp sensors. There are definite advantages to the D30 including speed and interchangeable lenses but I wouldn't say that the actual quality of the photos is as wide a margin as you suggest. I'm not a technical expert on these cameras. This is just based on studying photos and reading up on the various cameras.
T
[/i]
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11/13/2002 04:29:55 PM · #88 |
But the noise level makes the F707 worse than the D30.
(look at the ISO noises)
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
actually, according to dpreview, the absolute resolution of the f707 is MUCH higher than the d30 .. : )
F707
abs res. extinction res.
horiz LPH 1450 1800
Vert LPH 1300 1800
5o Diagonal LPH 1000 n/a
D30
Horiz LPH 1100 1350
Vert LPH 1150 1300
5o Diagonal LPH 1000 n/a
where
LPH = Lines per Picture Height (to allow for different aspect ratios the measurement is the same for horizontal and vertical)
5o Diagonal Lines set at 5o diagonal
Absolute Resolution = Still defined detail (below Nyquist frequency*)
Extinction Resolution = Detail beyond camera's definition (becomes a solid gray alias)
n/a Not Available (above the capability of the test chart)
n/v Not Visible (not visible on test results)
Originally posted by paganini:
[i]
There are numerous tests, etc. that shows the D30 will easily beat 5 mp cameras in the prosumer world. Both in sensor noise + resolving power. Just because it's advertise as 5 mp, doesn't mean it can resolve 5 mp worth of resolution. ... You can check out some of the tests on dpreview.com Look at the section that describes absolute resolution, noise level, etc. The lenses for the D30 is also better than the lenses for any prosumer cameras.
Originally posted by timj351:
[i]Paganini, isn't the sensor in the D60 larger then the sensors in prosumer cameras like the F707 or Dimage7? And aren't all things relative? My point is can't an F8 on the F707 produce roughly the same DOF as F16 on the D60? The F-stops are only relative to the individual cameras. I also wouldn't say that the D30 EASILY beats the prosumer cameras that have 5mp sensors. There are definite advantages to the D30 including speed and interchangeable lenses but I wouldn't say that the actual quality of the photos is as wide a margin as you suggest. I'm not a technical expert on these cameras. This is just based on studying photos and reading up on the various cameras.
T
[/i]
[/i]
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11/13/2002 05:41:06 PM · #89 |
another reason i have to use this particular camera (the Canon Powershot A10) is because waaay back in the early days of my involvement with dpchallenge, i recommended the camera to a newbie who wanted suggestions for a decent $200 camera. so now i get to show how decent : )
Originally posted by lisae:
Mag, Seeker, Gordon - I can't wait to see what you guys achieve with those cameras!! I've been enjoying the break I've taken from submitting here... taking those photos with my little Polaroid every week was really getting frustrating!
* This message has been edited by the author on 11/13/2002 8:47:17 PM. |
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