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07/28/2003 07:32:12 AM · #1 |
First, I am sure that some will take this the wrong way, but that's life! This suggestion is not about anger or frustration...its about wanting to know why someone gives a photo a very low or high score. We should all want to know where we were off or what we did that hit the mark! I realize individuals see photos differently...I just would like to know how some see a photo as a "1", while others see the same photo as a "10".
After getting some well deserved low scores it struck me that I have never really seen a photo that deserved a score of "1" submitted by anyone on this site. If you meet the challenge, even with a not-so-great photo, you deserve better than a "1".
So here's an idea...justify with a comment all scores of "1", "2", "9" and "10"! Set it up where these scores require comments and those who don't comment have their score not count in the total!
We are about learning and improving...or did I miss something in all the conversations. I might be alone on this one, but I suspect I am not!
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07/28/2003 07:38:30 AM · #2 |
agreed...though I admit I probably only commented on 1/3 so far. Normally, I think I do about half to 2/3.
Another idea... which I don't expect to be too well received... is a challenge without scores... only comments. Of course, that means no number by which to rank our photos, but it also means you only get comments... hopefully more useful.
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07/28/2003 07:47:43 AM · #3 |
I always try and comment on at least a third of the entries.. I always comment on the low scores I gave first as this is where I feel my level of expertise can do most help. There is little point in me commenting 'wow' on all the 10's and 9's I give.. although sometimes I do offer congratulations on a great shot..
I also use the full scale of marks 1-10, otherwise it would be 2-9 or something...
When a challenge has finished I look back over the full results to see how the pictures I scored at both extremes have done.. If they are not roughly where I placed them I go and read all the comments attached.. This has helped me gain a better understanding of what other people are looking at.. I still don't always agree..
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07/28/2003 07:50:30 AM · #4 |
It seems that some images suffer some consistent problems, so maybe we could add some 'detail' buttons such as 'Poor Focus', 'Too Gloomy', 'Weak Composition', 'Too Central'... etc. Could also do that for glowing praise too.
But then again I s'pose we could just copy and paste! Either way though it's better than no comment at all.
By the way, I think scores are crucial to gain understanding about the way shots are perceived in comparison with each other.
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07/28/2003 08:13:06 AM · #5 |
I see to it at least,I commented on 1/3 of the entries but voted on all.Entries that passed the said theme of the week, I scored 10-1 but for "out of the theme" entries,I give 5-1. So even if they are really good captured photos based on composition, lightning & others, but are out of theme, sorry, I give only 5 as the highest score.
Yes, it's true!It's really hard to vote especially if one doesn't know the know-how & techniques in photography, I mean for me as amateur. Sometimes I can say, voting is more subjectively rather than objectively...:):):) |
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07/28/2003 08:17:07 AM · #6 |
This is a rerun of a discussion that has happened many times here in the past. I stick by my position that a forced comment is not a worthwhile comment. Your image should inspire the voter to comment. If it doesn't, then any forced comment would be something just to 'get by' and not carry much thought.
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07/28/2003 08:23:19 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I stick by my position that a forced comment is not a worthwhile comment. Your image should inspire the voter to comment. If it doesn't, then any forced comment would be something just to 'get by' and not carry much thought. |
Agreed..
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07/28/2003 08:57:34 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
This is a rerun of a discussion that has happened many times here in the past. I stick by my position that a forced comment is not a worthwhile comment. Your image should inspire the voter to comment. If it doesn't, then any forced comment would be something just to 'get by' and not carry much thought. |
I agree, the first thing I look for when I log on is to see if there are any new comments. 5.3124 (or whatever) won't help me to improve, comments will (I hope) and I would much rather have someone want to comment than be forced to. |
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07/28/2003 09:16:48 AM · #9 |
What I really want is a site where I can upload pictures and have people blast the hell out of it giving reasons why!!
Sigh! I guess I might as well add the moon and stars to the list |
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07/28/2003 10:29:23 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
This is a rerun of a discussion that has happened many times here in the past. I stick by my position that a forced comment is not a worthwhile comment. Your image should inspire the voter to comment. If it doesn't, then any forced comment would be something just to 'get by' and not carry much thought. |
I'm not convinced by this reasoning (rerun or not!).
If, for instance, you ask someone to look at a painting, a photo, a sculpture, a design - whatever - and then say "Tell me what you think about it" that person will certainly say something. It can either be highly considered, or it may be impulsive, but both count. After all, some great photography is used in advertising where people sometimes have only about 7 seconds to evaluate an image or message and form a course of action - albeit subliminally. Why not here?
By giving people an option to say nothing and vote anonymously allows people to be a bit lazy.
I reckon by adding some radio buttons (with anonymity option) to choose some basic comments people will be moved to give even a small bit of feedback - and maybe add more. Regular commenters will not stop doing so since they work on a different level anyway.
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07/28/2003 10:36:32 AM · #11 |
"nice job. good pic."
That's all people will say to get by. Hell, some people do it now.
Radio buttons will just confuse people who will think they "must" pick something before moving on.
M
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07/28/2003 10:40:47 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
"nice job. good pic."
That's all people will say to get by. Hell, some people do it now. |
Exactly - they'll have to choose which, however bland, is better than nothing.
[The techies can choose which style of button!]
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07/28/2003 10:47:13 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
This is a rerun of a discussion that has happened many times here in the past. I stick by my position that a forced comment is not a worthwhile comment. Your image should inspire the voter to comment. If it doesn't, then any forced comment would be something just to 'get by' and not carry much thought. |
I'm not convinced by this reasoning (rerun or not!).
If, for instance, you ask someone to look at a painting, a photo, a sculpture, a design - whatever - and then say "Tell me what you think about it" that person will certainly say something. It can either be highly considered, or it may be impulsive, but both count. After all, some great photography is used in advertising where people sometimes have only about 7 seconds to evaluate an image or message and form a course of action - albeit subliminally. Why not here?
By giving people an option to say nothing and vote anonymously allows people to be a bit lazy.
I reckon by adding some radio buttons (with anonymity option) to choose some basic comments people will be moved to give even a small bit of feedback - and maybe add more. Regular commenters will not stop doing so since they work on a different level anyway. |
Sorry Jon but I don't agree. If you ask someone to comment on an image then you will probably get a response, but if you then ask that same person to comment on two hundred?
Adding radio buttons and forcing people to comment wouldn't achieve anything. The radio buttons idea is already represented in the 1-10 voting scale, and why would 'lazy' people enter a valid comment? |
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07/28/2003 10:50:29 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by tarique:
What I really want is a site where I can upload pictures and have people blast the hell out of it giving reasons why!!
Sigh! I guess I might as well add the moon and stars to the list |
You have to keep in mind that there are at LOT of new photos here every week. When it comes to commenting, I comment on photos that inspire me to do so. I used to comment on everything every week back when there were 100-150 photos per week. I can't do that anymore, and I'm sure that others have the same problems.
If the challenges were smaller, I would certainly work to comment on everything each week.
There are two things that you can do to 'solicit' comments on your challenge photos that seem to work every time. 1 - make a great photo that inspires people in some way. 2 - make a cruddy photo that has a lot of obvious flaws in it. When u figger out how to do #1 consistently, let me know :)
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07/28/2003 11:01:29 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by robsmith:
Sorry Jon but I don't agree. If you ask someone to comment on an image then you will probably get a response, but if you then ask that same person to comment on two hundred? |
Yes it's a fair point - slow connections and all that. But hey, they've got a whole week so that should be enough to click a button 200 times - they'll just have to stay up all night! ;) |
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07/28/2003 11:11:47 AM · #16 |
If you force people to leave a comment you are not going to get the in depth critiques you are looking for but just the quick few words about the photo.
Maybe we should do like the olympics, throw out the top 10 and bottom 10 scores at the end of the challenge and see what we come up with....
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07/28/2003 11:15:34 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by rickhd13:
If you force people to leave a comment you are not going to get the in depth critiques you are looking for but just the quick few words about the photo.
Maybe we should do like the olympics, throw out the top 10 and bottom 10 scores at the end of the challenge and see what we come up with.... |
I agree with you here Rick. I often catch myself going through the photos a bit too fast, and if I do leave a note it doesn't do the photographer any good if there is no "real" critique involved....hmmm...maybe I should slow down a bit....
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07/28/2003 11:16:51 AM · #18 |
If the photo is boring,nothing interesting going on ,there is nothing to comment about.
I have suggestion about The pic you are complaining about:
Printed on the paper and take it to work,show it to the people and tell them how beautiful picture you got!
See the reaction! ...
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07/28/2003 11:38:05 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
If the photo is boring,nothing interesting going on ,there is nothing to comment about.
I have suggestion about The pic you are complaining about:
Printed on the paper and take it to work,show it to the people and tell them how beautiful picture you got!
See the reaction! ... |
The problem is, most people will take the easy way out and say, "That's great!", hardly looking at the picture, just because that's what everybody does. |
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07/28/2003 01:00:54 PM · #20 |
Maybe instead of justifying the score, the photographers could justify their entries in the comment box to be seen after voting.
Example -- I submitted this shot because I felt that it was composed well and the lighting and focus really brings out some detail. The subject matter is a little boring, but I had malaria all week and this was the only thing I could find.
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07/28/2003 01:12:49 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by karmat:
......... but I had malaria all week and this was the only thing I could find. |
That's funny! LOL!!!
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07/28/2003 01:20:02 PM · #22 |
| Actually, I find that I do tend to comment almost exclusively on shots that I rank 9/10 or 1/2. I feel compelled to compliment the best shots, and explain why I vote something really low. I find that I rarely comment on 5s, etc., because they haven't inspired me to comment one way or the other. |
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07/28/2003 03:25:52 PM · #23 |
The mandatory comments would probably result in less 1-2's and 9-10's. It would always be in the back of our minds that if we give those scores we must comment, causing a slight persuasion toward other scores. Is this good or bad? Neither?
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