six one's ---- why - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

08/09/2003 10:50:10 AM · #26

Originally posted by chalcone:

Sorry to hear that. I personally gave it a 7. Perhaps the anti-idiot vote counting machine needs some fine-tuning.

Wow...a bit harsh I must say, if I gave this a 1, which i didn't - 5 from me - techinically a very good shot but not over interesting to me - I am an idiot...very nice

chalcone

Canon PowerShot S45

08/09/2003 11:13:24 AM · #27

[quote=rickhd13
Wow...a bit harsh I must say, if I gave this a 1, which i didn't - 5 from me - techinically a very good shot but not over interesting to me - I am an idiot...very nice[/quote]

you are being way too sensitive. There really is an anti-idiot program that no one would like to describe. Have you noticed that the scores jump almost by 0.05 to 0.1 (in my experience) just when the final rankings are released? It is because of the algorithm that corrects for statistical outlyers in the voting profile for each entry. Now, chill out.

Message edited by author 2003-08-09 11:15:04.

christyrack

Kodak DC280

08/09/2003 11:15:16 AM · #28

I didn't vote on the trends (my membership started a day or two after it ended) but I just LOVE your picture! I don't believe I've ever given a "1" to anybody, even if the picture didn't fit the challenge....so I'm a bit confused about it too. After looking up both definitions in the dictionary, I do believe the Rubik's Cube was a fad, not a trend....but that's nitpicking....and I would have given you a 7 or 8. It was a very nice, creative picture! :)

Christy

JPR

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Super Wide Angle Zoom

08/10/2003 09:16:17 AM · #29

I would give your photo a 4. I vote pretty low for things that don't interest me in any way and I don't think are creative. Sure, technically, if that's all I ever looked for, this would be a 6 since you have a D10, but overall I found this to be slightly below average. Considering that this came in 18th, which I think is more than it deserves given the lack of creativity, I don't know why you're complaining about a few ones. You have a lot of great shots in your portfolio as well as a camera that many of us only dream about. Just keep up the good work and don't worry about the 1's.

08/10/2003 09:47:06 AM · #30

I joined very recently and I did not vote for your pic.

However, I find your question not interesting in the scope of a single pic but more interesting as yet another example of people not being happy with the current voting system.

I think that the iper-democratic approach chosen by the site should be reviewed.

A vote given by a professional photographer should not have the same weight as that of an amateur, or novice (not to mention masters).

There should be a panel of judges (a new user group) which are the only ones allowed to vote or, maybe, which vote counts ten times a normal/anonymous vote.

I would definitely trust such a panel especially if a guideline to how to vote is published and followed omogeneously by the judges.

I strongly disagree, for instance, on giving one to a good pic just because in the eyes of the viewer does not meet the challenge.

A good picture should never take less than 5, in my opinion.

In the case of the picture mentioned in this forum I would give it five because:

- it is a technically well-done shot
- I do not like the choice of the colors for the basement: it could have been a much better pic with a better choice of color contrast (of course, in my opinion)

imagesloyola

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/10/2003 10:29:32 AM · #31

By avoiding ones it means I have - without fail - met the challenge.

hmmmp, wait here...one of the challenge...im 100% met the challenge...but i still got 18 1s in self-portrait revisited. AFTER THAT CHALLENGE, I DONT CARE IF ANY VOTERS RATE MY SUBMISSION WITH A FLAT 1. ITS REALLY THEIR OPINION AND REMEMBER YOU CANT PLEASE ANYBODY...I JUST ENJOY THE CHALLENGE...GOOD LUCK TO ALL.

wewillexplore

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/10/2003 10:41:36 AM · #32

Edwin - you knew when you submitted that shot that you were pushing a bound that conservativeDPC has. Dr. JOnes has been pushing it long enough for us to know where it's at - if you studied some of his scores, you'd have known that some people don't think what you did is art. Myself, I think it was a little over the top for this site, but would be great on PSig or somewhere else. It's about audience.

And I used to love not getting 1s. Now if I don't get a 1, it means I didn't strike a nerve in the voters. I'd rather get 18 1s and 18 10s than 67 5's.

M

imagesloyola

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/10/2003 10:56:46 AM · #33

thanks mavrik...i got your point...just wondering, why after a few weeks, this site comes up with NUDE Challenge.

Message edited by author 2003-08-10 10:58:44.

wewillexplore

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/10/2003 10:59:33 AM · #34

Yes - nude was a members challenge, yours was in open challenge. I think more of the "serious" people paid money and are more likely to see your work as art, rather than the mass appeal of free open contests. Maybe not, but...

imagesloyola

08/10/2003 11:04:17 AM · #35

well,thanks a lot.

i still like the mass appeal

08/10/2003 11:48:24 AM · #36

still a qualified judgement is much better than an unqualified one, in my opinion..

tarique

Nikon Coolpix 5700

08/10/2003 12:01:18 PM · #37

Originally posted by glimpses:

still a qualified judgement is much better than an unqualified one, in my opinion..

Of course it is - the votes on this site determine the popular appeal of a picture - nothing more and nothing less. While getting a good score is a boost for the ego, it is the comments cross matched with user profiles where I look for real satisfaction.

There is a critique club on the site - but it is largely over loaded.

What you are suggesting is very good but in practical application it will be a nightmare for the site council and admin.

To misquote entirely "Democracy has its place and THIS is one of them" :)

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

08/10/2003 02:06:01 PM · #38

Originally posted by tarique:

Originally posted by glimpses:
still a qualified judgement is much better than an unqualified one, in my opinion..

Of course it is - the votes on this site determine the popular appeal of a picture - nothing more and nothing less. While getting a good score is a boost for the ego, it is the comments cross matched with user profiles where I look for real satisfaction.

There is a critique club on the site - but it is largely over loaded.

What you are suggesting is very good but in practical application it will be a nightmare for the site council and admin.

To misquote entirely "Democracy has its place and THIS is one of them" :)

I see your point and mostly agree with it.

DPC is already the best site about Digital Photography (as I expressed in many different views since I joined very recently).

However, nothing lasts forever and I think that a website preserve its quality only if it is able to adapt and evolve.

I know I exaggerate in pushing for evolution, that is my attitude.

But the optimal point, in this case like in many others, is likely to be in the middle.

micallef

Nikon D850

08/10/2003 04:49:42 PM · #39

You should realise that the cube is not considered a present trend in all the voting countries and that today it may be seen as outdated elsewhere.

If a voter makes a mistake by giving a 1 or 10 instead of the back or forward buttons, there is the possibility of changing the vote given later on, thus that argument does not hold. I have several times changed my votes after viewing all the pictures.

In my opinion the problem with dpchallenge is that there are too many submissions - some of them are time wasters and should remain in family albums. These should not be submitted to the challenges to keep up the photographic standards. There should be a judging panel which chooses a fixed number of photos, such as 100, for each challenge which the general public will then be allowed to vote for. Voters can spend more time to view and analyse all the pictures if they are less in number. I have seen other photographic websites of a much higher standard than dpchallenge because only photos of a certain quality are allowed.

Unfortunately there were other submissions of the same subject which were more to my liking than yours. Voters may have compared them and thus you got six 1's.

1 is a valid vote and should be accepted by those who receive it.

kiwiness

Canon Canon 1d x Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/10/2003 05:06:09 PM · #40

Originally posted by micallef:

You should realise that the cube is not considered a present trend in all the voting countries and that today it may be seen as outdated elsewhere.

The rules specifically stated as follows:

Photograph a trend from any decade -- current or past. Be creative, and enjoy yourself.

The trends challenge was aimed at "trends" in general, current or past.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/10/2003 05:23:01 PM · #41

Originally posted by micallef:

In my opinion the problem with dpchallenge is that there are too many submissions - some of them are time wasters and should remain in family albums. These should not be submitted to the challenges to keep up the photographic standards ...

There are no "standards" here, only limitations (on nudity, etc.). The only requirement here is to want to learn how to be a BETTER photographer. Many people may never be "good" photographers, and certainly a rare few will be commonly considered "great" photographers, but everyone here can aspire to be a BETTER photographer.

It sounds to me that you are more interested in a small private photography club, not a public contest/educational community. For less than $10/month you can rent a GB of online storage and start one.

08/10/2003 05:48:04 PM · #42

Originally posted by micallef:

1 is a valid vote and should be accepted by those who receive it.

Well.. of course they(we) have to accept it, what else can they(we) do??
=))

I was thinking of hiring a mafia hitman and then eliminate all those that rated 1 my lovely pic (and first submission), but when I examined the bill I decided that the cost was way too high.

Apart from jokes and being serious:

it is unacceptable for a decent pic to receive 1

The reason is simple and I will tell you with a little story (maths simplified).

A pic received four votes. Three great photographers, who liked it, rated it with an 8. A novice, in one of his bad days because he just had a row with his girlfriend, gave it a 1.

Without the last vote, the avg would have been 8. The last vote lowered the avg up to 6.25 moving the pic from 1st place to 78th place of 259 photos.

Morale: the vote of a novice was by far more heavier than the one of three great photographers and moved a photo from glory to a dull position.

If we want to give that power to novices, it's ok to me, it could be even fun. But it should be evident that to win a ribbon becomes no different than to play the lottery.

Message edited by author 2003-08-10 17:49:18.

08/10/2003 06:02:07 PM · #43

digitalphotocontest.com uses a select panel of judges to do their voting. if that's more what you're looking for, head over there.

i give ones quite frequently. i also give 10s quite frequently. i have my own voting system that i use and it works for me. i also leave lots of comments and do my best with the critique club.

if you can't handle the possibility that someone will give you a one, then you probably shouldn't be submitting your photos for a worldwide critique.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/10/2003 06:05:08 PM · #44

oh, and i'd much rather hear from BOTH pros and novices about my photos, as each group looks for different things and i thing it's important to get a wide range of opinions. if we limit this to the professional critiquing club, then it's no fun to participate.

when i first started i was scared to leave comments. "who am i to say what i think about this stuff?" then i realized that people WANT to hear what i had to say. my comments aren't like "oh, i would have used a F8 with a polarizer filter while bouncing tungsten lighting off of a gold reflector at 45 degrees." they just say what i like and what i don't. people appreciate it and if they don't, they can just ignore me.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

08/10/2003 06:11:49 PM · #45

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by micallef:
In my opinion the problem with dpchallenge is that there are too many submissions - some of them are time wasters and should remain in family albums. These should not be submitted to the challenges to keep up the photographic standards ...

There are no "standards" here, only limitations (on nudity, etc.). The only requirement here is to want to learn how to be a BETTER photographer. Many people may never be "good" photographers, and certainly a rare few will be commonly considered "great" photographers, but everyone here can aspire to be a BETTER photographer.

It sounds to me that you are more interested in a small private photography club, not a public contest/educational community. For less than $10/month you can rent a GB of online storage and start one.

Considering that micallef, at least, seems capable of telling 'some' from 'others', I would regret his leaving DPC in favour of a 'small private photography club' where he would certainly be of less use than in a 'public contest/educational community'.

08/10/2003 06:12:28 PM · #46

Originally posted by muckpond:

if you can't handle the possibility that someone will give you a one, then you probably shouldn't be submitting your photos for a worldwide critique.

Well.. to be madly honest with you..
I could handle also one thousand 1s on one thousand votes, regardless if I deserved them or not (of course, having deserved them may well help).

But that was not my point.

My point was that a 1 was not acceptable for a decent pic (not for the person who took it).

If you love photography you will defend any photo (not only yours) from the assault of savage 1s!

Message edited by author 2003-08-10 18:13:48.

ozdick

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

08/10/2003 06:19:10 PM · #47

There's nothing you can do about people voting '1's so the best idea is to try and take something positive away from the experience.
For example - an entry of mine in one of the current challenges, is without a doubt scoring some 1's for not meeting challenge, but I had a comment left by one of the site council members who left a great message and scored it a 10.
That meant more to me than any number of low scores this photo might receive :)

08/10/2003 06:25:31 PM · #48

Originally posted by glimpses:

My point was that a 1 was not acceptable for a decent pic (not for the person who took it).

If you love photography you will defend any photo (not only yours) from the assault of savage 1s!

I appreciate your point and agree with you somewhat. Two things: One, there are innumerable definitions of what constitues a "decent" pic. "Decent" is in the eye of the downloader, as it were.

Two, the CHALLENGE portion of dpCHALLENGE is not just to create and upload a "decent" pic, but rather a photo that best illustrates your interpretation of the CHALLENGE of the week. To me, one of the greatest parts about DPC is that it's not just flower and kids and kittens every week (well, sometimes it kinda is, but that's beside the point). To me, the best part is that every week EVERYONE has to try and think about something new to shoot or use a new technique or hunt down a subject they would normally pass by in everyday life. It's not dpPRETTYPICTURES.com

To me when I see cliche photographs or bad photographs or photographs that have nothing whatsoever to do with the challenge, I consider it a missed opportunity for that photographer. In extreme cases, I also consider it a 1.

08/10/2003 06:31:55 PM · #49

just to put my ones where my mouth is:

two of my absolute favorite photos of all time are the two that have the most 1s of any photos in my profile:

Bound
Housework

Am I upset they got 1s? Sure. But they're still hanging up around my house just the same, and the people who gave 'em 1s are just missing out :D.

Rob