Internet Users Beware! - DPChallenge Forums

12/09/2003 01:59:46 PM · #1

First some background information:
My career is with computers, specifically I build high speed secure networks for my employeer. We have many different locations and each location has an employee cafeteria where we have installed at least one Internet terminal for the employees to use. These terminals have seperate broadband connections to the Internet and are seperated from the company's main network. Each terminal or group of terminals has a hardware firewall installed, Anti-Virus software, Anti-Spyware software and software that controls their web surfing so that they don't go to porn websites or other sites that other employees may find offensive. The PC's then have a set of policies installed that lock down the PC, the CD-ROM was physically removed, all drives (A:\, C:\, etc) have been locked out to deny access.

It is safe to say that we protect ourselves far and above your average home user.

For a test, we removed only the Anti-Spyware but left all other software alone. After one week we installed the Anti-Spyware software and ran a sweep, this is what we found.

98 instances of some sort of spyware on the PC.
353 instances where the was a trace of spyware.

This was just after one week. Granted it's heavy usage but think about your own computer for a second... When was the last time that it was scanned, or have you ever?

It is said that every 9 out of 10 computers that are connected to the Internet have Spyware installed on them and that Spyware has now eclipsed virus's as the #1 threat to online privacy.

/steps up on the soap box
If you are reading this, you need three different things to protect yourself and your family.

1) You need a Firewall. This can be software or hardware but you need one. If you have a broadband connection, then you absolutely need to have one, no questions asked. "But Jason, I don't have anything on my computer that they want and I don't care if they have it.". Bull! That my be but hackers also want in your PC to hack someone elses computer and guess what... If said person is able to track it, guess who they track it to... YOU!

2) Anti-Virus software. I think we all know why by now. :)

3) Anti-Spyware software. Ahhh the new threat. Did you know that websites have advanced to the point where they can install and run software on your computer without you knowing it? They then can report back to the software's owner all your surfing habits and if melicous enough... any passwords that you enter while on your PC. Online banking, shopping, E-mail... everything you do is now vulnerable.

/steps off the soap box

-Jason

Jacko

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/09/2003 02:03:44 PM · #2

Thanks for the warning, but I don't use the Internet. mooowooohaaahaahaaa. :P

12/09/2003 02:12:32 PM · #3

Jason, I'm glad you posted this, and since you're the expert, and are freely giving advice, I have 2 questions:

1. We have broadband going through a router; we also have a good A-V program, and run a spyware checker every few days. Is the router enough to protect us from someone "hacking" in, or is it possible to get through a router?

2. Have you heard of any stealth/spy programs that actually, ON IT'S OWN, activate your IE browser spontaneously and go to a website? We have a friend that swears that his computer has done this several times.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Linda

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/09/2003 02:13:23 PM · #4

A few additions:

I'd highly recommend Adaware to remove spyware. You will especially want to look into this if you're downloading things from Kazaa or other filesharing programs.

You have to actually update your virus definitions. Installing it once and leaving it for life isn't good enough. You can usually set them up to update automatically (I'm really only familiar with Norton and McAfee) but it needs to be done.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/09/2003 02:15:20 PM · #5

Originally posted by lhall:

2. Have you heard of any stealth/spy programs that actually, ON IT'S OWN, activate your IE browser spontaneously and go to a website? We have a friend that swears that his computer has done this several times.

Yes! (even though you were asking Jason.) It's called browser hijacking. Some friends of my sisters had this happen to them and not only did it take over the browser, it dialed a longdistance number through the modem and they were charged hundreds of dollars without even knowing it had happened.

JC_Homola

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

12/09/2003 02:16:21 PM · #6

which spyware detector do you reccomend? I used to have it for my win98 machine, but havn't gotten one since moving to xp

saw the post about adaware which I just installed! 116 instances on my hard drive. grrrrrrrrrr

Message edited by author 2003-12-09 14:26:35.

cbeller

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

12/09/2003 02:22:10 PM · #7

Originally posted by JC_Homola:

which spyware detector do you reccomend? I used to have it for my win98 machine, but havn't gotten one since moving to xp

We use "SpyBot-Search&Destroy" and we have also used "Adaware". Spybot seems to work the best for us.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/09/2003 02:22:26 PM · #8

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by lhall:

2. Have you heard of any stealth/spy programs that actually, ON IT'S OWN, activate your IE browser spontaneously and go to a website? We have a friend that swears that his computer has done this several times.

Yes! (even though you were asking Jason.) It's called browser hijacking. Some friends of my sisters had this happen to them and not only did it take over the browser, it dialed a longdistance number through the modem and they were charged hundreds of dollars without even knowing it had happened.

Thanks mk! I had never heard of this, and was disturbed to hear that it was even possible!

As far as spyware - we use Spybot, and find it very effective. And it's free.

tfaust

Canon EOS 80D

12/09/2003 02:23:10 PM · #9

Jason seems to be exceptionally knowledgable, and I know your questions were directed at him, but I'd still like to share my thoughts/opinions:

No a router is not enough. It is a great thing to have on broadband (and IMHO necessary these days), but if someone wanted to badly enough get to your computer they can. I recommend to my clients a router AND McAfee Firewall/SpamKiller/VirusScan.

I had a client once that got spyware / adware on their system from a 'Gator Corp'. Since she was still on dialup, it was continuously trying to initiate her internet connection every time she was not online. Being that the case, my thought would be yes to your second question.

mk brings up good points as well. My brother-in-law insisted that kazaa doesn't put any spyware on your computer, and it says so right on the front page of their web site, however when I read the really fine print of the terms of use, I found a statement in there that they will put tracking software on your computer.

Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM

12/09/2003 02:23:52 PM · #10

I know enough to make a living at it or was that I know enough to be dangerous? :)

Most of the broadband routers that are out have some measure of a firewall in them. To me routers/firewalls are like car alarms. If someone wants in bad enough, they will get in. The better the alarm, the more effort it takes. The majority of time, if keeps an honest person honest, then it's doing it's job.

Spyware can also be used to monitor your web serving habits, it then can open browser windows on it's own to a site more geared to your interests based upon the surfing habits that it found. So to answer your second question, yes.

Refracted

Canon EOS-50D

12/09/2003 02:26:05 PM · #11

ontop of ad-aware, i like to use "spybot search & destroy". using a combination of spyware detoectors is good since not all of them can detect them all at once..

12/09/2003 02:26:51 PM · #12

For those that like Kazaa, look into Kazaa Lite. It's was made by a Kazaa user that was fedup with the adware/spyware stuff.

I have been playing with Spy Sweeper by Webroot and have been happy with it so far. Webroot.com

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/09/2003 02:27:52 PM · #13

Zone Alarm is also a good, free firewall. And XP has one built in, if you make sure that it's activated.

And yes, I'd second Kazaa Lite.

12/09/2003 02:29:06 PM · #14

Originally posted by Jason:

So... is this browser hijacking intiated by a spyware program that is on the computer? This guy is on DSL behind a hardware router/firewall, so it can't be intiated from the internet, can it??

12/09/2003 02:30:30 PM · #15

Thoug I dont run it myself, I do like Zone Alarm since it goes the extra step and tells you about software that is trying to leave your PC to do something. Also tells you about something that is trying to execute itself onto your PC.

12/09/2003 02:32:35 PM · #16

Originally posted by Jason:

Do you think it necessary to run Zone Alarm with broadband on a router?

We used to use ZA when we had Starband, but quit using it when we got cable, thinking that the router was sufficient.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

12/09/2003 02:33:59 PM · #17

Originally posted by lhall:

Originally posted by Jason:
I know enough to make a living at it or was that I know enough to be dangerous? :)

Most of the broadband routers that are out have some measure of a firewall in them. To me routers/firewalls are like car alarms. If someone wants in bad enough, they will get in. The better the alarm, the more effort it takes. The majority of time, if keeps an honest person honest, then it's doing it's job.

Spyware can also be used to monitor your web serving habits, it then can open browser windows on it's own to a site more geared to your interests based upon the surfing habits that it found. So to answer your second question, yes.

So... is this browser hijacking intiated by a spyware program that is on the computer? This guy is on DSL behind a hardware router/firewall, so it can't be intiated from the internet, can it??

It's happening because of software that was installed on his computer, most likely by Spyware or by something that he installed accidently. Example would be when you go to a website and a popup comes up asking you to install some sort of plugin so that you can view that website with all it's bells and whistles. You may click YES without knowing what exactly it's doing. Gator.com is probably the most recognizable for doing this.

BobsterLobster

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro

12/09/2003 03:10:47 PM · #18

Spyware... SO WHAT?!?
As long as you have firewall and a-v protection, what is so bad about spyware? It is spyware that allows people to use many programs for free, as the company that provide the software can make their money back through advertising and by building user profiles.
Spyware cannot link between browsing habits and a particular user.
Same as cookies. They're harmless.
Some spyware is a little intrusive and pops up adverts (eg Kazaa), but I'm happy to live with it. When spyware goes over the line, anti-virus definitions are updated to include it.
I can understand the concern however for those on dial-up, as it can slow down your connection and dial unexpectedly. Make sure you disconnect when not online, and don't use a fax machine on your PC. A family member had a case of browser hijacking, and the fax machine called out and ran up a bill of several thousand Â£. A firewall and up-to-date a-v should stop this though.

alanfreed

Nikon Z9

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

12/09/2003 03:16:50 PM · #19

I can't stand the notion of spyware, either... but I think the programs like Adaway (which I do use, and I like) tend to blow things a little out of proportion to make themselves look good.

When I ran a scan, I found a high number of "instances" of spyware, too, but the vast majority (actually, all of them on this particular machine) were just cookies, rather than actual programs that track stuff.

ottafocus

Sony Mavica CD350

12/09/2003 03:35:56 PM · #20

Spyware and adware seem to be the biggest issue we have with the internet today. A firewall or router alone will not protect fully this is because most home routers and firewalls are meant to protect traffic incoming only. Spyware is designed to get around this be installing software on your computer itself. This software then initiates the traffic outgoing. This is the latest issues in security. Software the creates the outgoing connection thus bypassing most home firewalls protection.

Spyware is also the number 1 cause of slow machines and fatal errors or software crashes. Spyware runs in the background and eats up system resources the more instances on the computer the harder to run normal software processes. Browser crashes are also very common with Spyware.

I have used adaware and so far am very happy with the results. It has saved me from having to reinstall several PC's so far.

Message edited by author 2003-12-09 17:19:06.

jab119

12/09/2003 03:50:40 PM · #21

I have so many "anti" what not softwares running I can barley use my PC these days.

I remember when surfing the net used to be fun.....its so much trouble these days I only visit a few sites (DPC is one of them)

James