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03/13/2010 12:39:39 PM · #1 |
I spotted this horse yesterday. I've never before seen a horse with a bowed back like this outside of cartoons. I'm curious what causes this. Is this horse ill, malnourished or is it maybe just a breed I haven't seen before? All the other horses and cows in this field appeared quite normal and healthy.
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03/13/2010 12:51:58 PM · #2 |
A sunken back typically indicates old age. Some long-backed horses are prone to a swayed back, but the one in your picture looks extreme indeed. Malnutrition or worms can also play into it. If it were in a pasture next to mine, I'd investigate.
-It almost looks like the effects of an injury...
Message edited by author 2010-03-13 12:55:59. |
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03/13/2010 12:52:40 PM · #3 |
| Retired from the "World's Biggest Loser" ranch? |
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03/13/2010 01:03:55 PM · #4 |
| This is a very, very swaybacked old horse. And the ribs sticking out like that makes me also think this poor old beastie is not getting his groceries. :-( |
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03/13/2010 05:42:18 PM · #5 |
| I'd report the horse just to be safe. |
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03/13/2010 05:54:50 PM · #6 |
This horse is definitely malnourished. The swayback is probably from loss of muscle tone...report it please(ASPCA). It could be numerous issues from teeth not being filed to worms. However, most responsible horse owners realize that these things must be checked to maintain the horses health.
Message edited by author 2010-03-13 18:00:46. |
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03/13/2010 06:04:53 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by kleski:
This horse is definitely malnourished. The swayback is probably from loss of muscle tone...report it please. |
Originally posted by kenskid:
I'd report the horse just to be safe. |
Normally I might agree on the idea of reporting animal abuse. However, I think there are special circumstances about this animal. Also, this field is alongside a major and busy highway in a ranching community. Not a place you would display a horse you were mistreating. Other local ranchers, not to mention all the agriculture students at Tarleton University, have certainly seen this horse before now. All the other horses in this field appeared well fed and healthy. I know nothing about the situation and do not think I should be jumping to conclusions. If it needs reporting, I am certain someone with more insight than myself has already done so.
Message edited by author 2010-03-13 18:10:33. |
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03/13/2010 06:06:56 PM · #8 |
| If you report, please report carefully, the animal could just be sick. From what I see in the photo the field looks clean, and grasses plentiful. No need to cause added suffering of a family that might be in pain watching a pet slowly die.. |
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03/13/2010 06:27:05 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I know nothing about the situation and do not think I should be jumping to conclusions. If it needs reporting, I am certain someone with more insight than myself has already done so. |
Don't assume other people will do anything, they may be thinking the same damn thing. |
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03/13/2010 06:38:17 PM · #10 |
| I'll make a call, but I also want to be careful not to cause undue trouble for someone who is probably already doing the right thing. |
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03/13/2010 06:59:05 PM · #11 |
They are not doing the right thing. That horse is in pitiful condition and needs emergency treatment or needs to be put down. It is certainly malnourished. No vet would ever allow this.
Message edited by author 2010-03-13 18:59:51. |
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03/13/2010 09:22:42 PM · #12 |
IF you report it, and the agency investigates, and it is a old horse that is just out to pasture, they will discern that quickly. If it is neglect, you will have done something positive.
My sister used to have a trail riding stable. One winter, some of our neighbors decided her horses didn't look healthy enough. Then, when one of the horses got seriously sick, they called in the animal welfare people.
As part of their investigation, they called my sister and her husband down to the pasture, as well as the neighbors and had a pow-wow.
The conversation went something like this (there were 3 or 4 horses in a pasture of roughly 75 acres) --
NN = neighborly neighbor
S = sister and BIL
AW = animal workers
AW = Who do the animals belong to.
S = They are mine.
AW = Is this your pasture?
S = No, our neighbor lets us use it as part of the our field rotation in the winter to help them get as much grass as possible.
AW = Do you live near here?
S = Yes, our land adjoins this pasture at the top of the mountain.
NN = They never feed them
AW = What do you mean they never feed them?
NN = Well, they throw some bales of hay out each day, sometimes twice a day, and that is all they ever feed them.
AW = and?
NN = Well, those horses are hungry. So, we got them some feed and we've been feeding them.
AW = WHAT have you been feeding them?
NN = Well, you know, carrots, apples and stuff.
S = candy, cookies
NN = yea, some of that. the kids like to give them treats.
AW = have you been feeding them anything else/
NN = yes, sweetfeed. the people at the feedstore said horses like sweet feed.
AW = How much do you feed them?
NN = As much as they will eat?
AW = excuse me?
NN = as much as they will eat. they bound to be hungry. they eat it and eat it and eat it. they won't stop. they bound to be hungry, they keep eating it.
AW = so you have been feeding them a bunch of sweet feed.
NN = yea, they've gone through that whole bag in just a day or so.
S = You are trying to kill my horse?
NN = what?
S = Duke (the horse that was sick) is under a vet's care for [some kind of illness that i could not pronounce and couldn't spell if i had to]. Too much grain or sweet stuff shuts down his system. You're killing my horse.
NN = He's hungry.
S = He's not hungry. He's sick and he's under a vet's care.
AW = Can I have the vet's number?
S = Yes.
(AW goes to his car and calls the vet)
AW = to NN, sir, at this moment, I could call the sheriff and have you arrested for cruelty to animals. Do you understand that?
NN = No.
AW = Sweet feed in excess amounts is harmful to horses. In the case of Duke, it is almost fatal. Please, stop feeding these horses.
NN = but, but, but
AW = Stop feeding the horses; they are fine.
My point being, if there is nothing there, no harm, no foul; the owners should be able to prove that. In my sister's case, she was glad to prove that she was doing the right thing and that she was able to "edumacate" the neighbors. (The other lesson is please don't feed your neighbors animals without knowing for sure that they want/need you to). |
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03/14/2010 05:16:48 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
They are not doing the right thing. That horse is in pitiful condition and needs emergency treatment or needs to be put down. It is certainly malnourished. No vet would ever allow this. |
Well, actually you would wish that no vet would allow this but, as is in every profession, there are some who would, strictly for the money. This horse can not be saved and is suffering. |
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03/14/2010 05:37:26 PM · #14 |
Poor horse! But maybe it's not the owner's fault and, from what little I've read about Lordosis, it may be better for the horse to be on the skinny side so as to have less pressure on the back. Have you talked to the owner? If the other horses looked good, chances are they are taking good care of it in its old age and there is nothing that can be done for the condition. Here's an article on lordosis I found interesting.
//www.myhorse.com/health/preventative/lordosis_swayback_in_older_horses.aspx#top
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03/14/2010 05:38:09 PM · #15 |
| I'm not sure that the entire situation can be judged from one photo I shot from 100 yards away. I will give the ASPCA a call tomorrow and see what they tell me. |
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03/14/2010 05:38:59 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by CJinCA:
If the other horses looked good, chances are they are taking good care of it in its old age and there is nothing that can be done for the condition. |
That was what I was thinking. |
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03/14/2010 06:42:47 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by CJinCA:
If the other horses looked good, chances are they are taking good care of it in its old age and there is nothing that can be done for the condition. |
That was what I was thinking. |
*ahem* the old excuse, 'The horse is skinny cause he's old' may be trotted out for the benefit of the ASPCA and you and anyone else who asks. What bullshit. I know a 28 yr old TB mare who also has a swayback, but by no means of the imagination is she skinny. It's one thing for the lines of the ribs to be visible; it is quite another for the ribs to actually be poking out. If you can see the pelvic bones in particular sticking out like those commonly seen on cows in cartoons, well, that is definitely not good. |
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03/14/2010 06:47:02 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
*ahem* the old excuse, 'The horse is skinny cause he's old' may be trotted out for the benefit of the ASPCA and you and anyone else who asks. What bullshit. I know a 28 yr old TB mare who also has a swayback, but by no means of the imagination is she skinny. It's one thing for the lines of the ribs to be visible; it is quite another for the ribs to actually be poking out. If you can see the pelvic bones in particular sticking out like those commonly seen on cows in cartoons, well, that is definitely not good. |
Well, knowing you are a horse trainer, I consider yours to be an informed opinion. What do you suggest? |
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03/14/2010 06:48:42 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by CJinCA:
If the other horses looked good, chances are they are taking good care of it in its old age and there is nothing that can be done for the condition. |
That was what I was thinking. |
On the other hand, this horse could be getting chased away from hay/feed by the dominant horses, which is likely everything else in its pasture. If I had a hand in the matter the first thing I would do is put the old horse out to pasture in a separate but neighbouring pasture, with a friendly companion, and give it a round bale and plenty of water. And access to at least a run-in shelter, if not a barn.
As for the neighbours feeding a whole sack of sweetfeed (probably about 40-50 lbs) on what a DAILY basis?! to someone else's horses...yea gads! At least you know who to send the vet bill to when the horses colic and die!
Message edited by author 2010-03-14 18:53:04. |
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03/14/2010 06:49:12 PM · #20 |
This horse has what is called Lordosis. (wiki link) It can also happen to people. Likely this horse is old. Lordosis is most common in older horses but it can present in young horses too. This horse does have other problems besides his lordosis. He is underweight and that is caused by a lack of nutrition. There are many reasons for lack of nutrition, one is not getting food. (many pastures have lots of weeds, sometimes toxic, and not very many nutritious plants) Horses will normally not eat what isn't nutritious until there is nothing else left to eat. Another reason for lack of nutrition is bad teeth. Horses teeth grow their entire lives and often they start to grow unevenly. They need to be "floated" (filed level again) so the horse can actually chew his food. The molars can grow points that actually cut up the insides of the cheeks or the teeth can get such a slant to them that the horse can't chew up his food. Also, if the incisors (front teeth) get out of whack with each other they can't even bite off the grasses to chew them in the first place. Another reason for lack of nutrition is a parasite load.
This horse is REALLY underweight. Old horses often need more food to keep their weight due to other metabolic issues they can get as they age. There are people out there that have no idea that they need to do some of these maintenance things for a horse such as getting the teeth floated, supplementing with more food when the pasture is dormant, or de-worming the horse for parasites. Many (and I bet in this case) the owners will merely write off the horse as being old and this condition is only a part of old age.
In reality, the swayback (lordosis) is the only thing that can't be helped here. This horse really could benefit a lot from some of the other things I mentioned. Food (must be forage type, aka HAY, not grain unless you REALLY know what you are doing.) I bet a good teeth floating would go a long long way. Likely it could also benefit from a de-worming. (that should be done several times a year at the minimum and it's dirt cheap to do). There is no reason an old horse should be a skinny horse. Some might argue that if you float the teeth they will be used up faster and fall out too soon. If the horses teeth fall out, there is other food options that can be used. Take another look at the horse and if his feet are long and flat, it is very likely that he is being neglected and I would call animal services.
You can call the local AC and they can at least check on it and find out more. No harm done. (often you have to repeat the call a few times to get any action) If the horse is being neglected, you might have just made him much more comfortable, either they will fix some things or they will euthanize him. (even humanely euthanized is better than starving and suffering in my book). For this horse, being fat wouldn't be a good option either but he really is too skinny.
Cheers to you for noticing and caring because right now with the downturned economy, there are reports every day of horses starving to death (and abandoned as well) but the news only seems to report on the large herds. One lone horse often gets overlooked. |
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03/14/2010 07:04:37 PM · #21 |
*applauding  Ristyz* You rock, girl!
And for those that are truly interested in horse welfare I very strongly recommend www.fuglyblog.com. Cathy, 'Fugs' to her fans (including me) doesn't let anything get by her...whether it's irresponsible adults letting their kids get hurt by horses, idiotic training techniques, insane riding, Krazy Kolor breeding, barbaric *sports* like horsetripping, the slaughter issue, so-called rescues that fail miserably, animal hoarders, a lawyer in Alberta leaving his two packhorses to starve to death in the Rockies (they were rescued)...and oh yes, 'that horse is thin and swaybacked and drops food out of his mouth and looks like he has skiis for feet,'cause he's old'...
And she calls them all out.
Fugs is roughly my age with probably double my experience. If I had a blog, well, it would say everything she says. So follow her blog!
Oh yes, Spiffy, ready rebuttals for you to arm yourself with (or the ASPCA, they don't necessarily know everything about horses...though in your neck of the woods, I imagine they would)...
And finally, as I am sure all horse people will agree...horse ownership does NOT automatically make someone who owns a horse, a horseperson! If it did, then every car owner would be a knowledgeable mechanic! But they're not, and there are clueless noob horse owners out there. So...apart from the swayback, if you or the ASPCA hears any of the following excuses, here is the rebuttal:
'Horse has no/few teeth, can't chew his food' - then get him haycubes, which are soaked to mush prior to feeding. And there are surely some senior horse feeds out there that are also meant to be consumed by older horses with fewer teeth.
'Horse drops food out of his mouth' Then he needs to get his teeth floated, which can be done by a vet or a horse dentist. Yes, I did say horse dentist. They exist.
'Horse can't walk far cause the feet are miles long and may even look like curl-toed shoes'? Call the farrier.
'Horse eats all he wants but poohs it all out' - uhmmm checked the pooh recently for worms? Including those that can be roughly the length and appearance of old shoelaces, but they move? That could be a hint to break out the Equvalan. Or Quest. Or any other reputable wormer in your area.
'Horse can't keep weight on because it's old' - note to self to post pic of 28-year-old swaybacked TB mare who registers a healthy 6 or so on the body condition scale, unlike the 3 we see in the photo.
'Horse gets chased away from food by other horses'....well duhhh...separate the old geezer from the bullies chasing it off its hay! If you don't have a second pasture or paddock in which to put old geezer then visit the Co-op, get some electric tape and step-in posts and make a second pasture within the main one.
It scares me, how many people own horses and have no frickin idea as to how to look after them.
Message edited by author 2010-03-14 19:33:24. |
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03/14/2010 07:43:15 PM · #22 |
| Well, I won't quote the last two posts but both are certainly on the money... |
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03/14/2010 08:03:10 PM · #23 |
Just took another look at the horse...notice how the hindlegs are stretched quite a ways out behind him? Sorry, but that is not a natural stance. The poor thing probably already has severe arthritis, and/or may have diffifulty moving its back end - ie couldn't get out of the way of a more dominant horse if it wanted to - and that camped-out hind end makes me think the beastie is trying to keep its weight off its feet. Meaning that they hurt.
BTW, Spiffy, don't feel bad about intervening. Recently I shot with Ryan at a place where they have longhorn cattle and horses. I saw one young horse laying down, his belly painfully distended, and even Ryan - not a horse person - noticed the laboured breathing. I saw the pale gums, dull eye and blood-red interior of the nostrils, and the horse's occasional glance stomachward. *off to upload pic* 
The owners had left the property knowing we were there. I had to stop being a photog and don the role of horsewoman. So after instructing Ryan to watch for any aggressive behaviour towards me from the two other horses in the paddock, I climbed the gate, with the intention of either trying to get him to his feet or listening for gut sounds. Thankfully, my entering the paddock roused the little guy got to his feet. He then let out a big fart, and joined his buddies in demolishing the hay left for them.
In all likelihood the little guy had nothing more than a minor case of gas, starting to lead to colic. I chose to err on the side of caution and am glad Ryan was with me, because he could have called for help had anything gone wrong.
Message edited by author 2010-03-14 20:08:56. |
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03/14/2010 08:33:53 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Ristyz:
You can call the local AC and they can at least check on it and find out more. |
What is the AC? |
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03/14/2010 08:35:49 PM · #25 |
| I think that's Animal Control -- usually a department of the local law enforcement (police, sheriff) agency. |
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