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02/22/2011 12:04:40 PM · #26 |
| Voting philosophy 101: There is no norm. |
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02/22/2011 12:14:02 PM · #27 |
I don't have voting turned on, so I don't follow the votes as they come in (maybe I'll sneak a peek, or leave it on if I know it's tanking). It's more fun to wake up and be surprised about where they finish. And I think that approach lends itself to Del's point: Your score is an average calculated at rollover. Your score is not a score until then. Or something like that.
That said, the folks who partake in these threads, bantering back and forth about why they vote how they do (I'm one as well), do not, I suspect, trouble those receiving votes; because there's a plausible reason for it. They may not want to share it, and it may reveal a conflict of appreciation and style, but it's defendable if it really had to be, and, more importantly, genuine.
I am convinced, however, that there is a subset of the population that vindictively votes down the competition, harshly so if it's a perceived threat to their own final standing. I think that's the thing that really bums a lot of people out. |
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02/22/2011 12:14:20 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
Originally posted by mike_311:
i like to give out 10's to any image with gratuitous nudity, just to try to counteract the negative votes they surely get. i also give 1's to wine glasses, for the same counter effect. |
Well that's really... pathetic isn't the right word. But it's along the right lines.
Vote on something based on whether you like or not... not because you feel it's your duty to 'fix' its score.
If you don't like a wine glasse shot give it a 1 then. Not because there're wine glasses in the shot.
If you like a nude shot give it a 10. Not because it has nudes.
Not every subject can attain a 7+ score with a full set of votes (broad appeal, as Steve says). That's because a different subjects appeal to different people in different ways and different amounts. It's how it should be. Just because your feelings towards something are one way inclined doesn't allow you the pleasure of playing vigilante around the challenges.
Just because someone's showing some ass doesn't make it a good shot.
Just because there's a wine glass doesn't make it a bad shot.
Don't vote like that. It's dishonest, and doesn't judge the images based on what it should be judged on. |
i actually went against principles and voted a wine glass in a recent challenge an 8. my comment was to the effect " at least you broke the wine glass". (seriously)
to be honest, i was only joking i don't blanketly vote nudes 10 and wineglasses a 1. but i do think to myself "oh another wine glass" or "oh this shot again" i do tend to vote one or two points lower if i see the same shot over and over and over... but i never go lower than a five unless i consider the shot bad or with no real effort made.
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02/22/2011 12:19:53 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
i actually went against principles and voted a wine glass in a recent challenge an 8. my comment was to the effect " at least you broke the wine glass". (seriously)
to be honest, i was only joking i don't blanketly vote nudes 10 and wineglasses a 1. but i do think to myself "oh another wine glass" or "oh this shot again" i do tend to vote one or two points lower if i see the same shot over and over and over... but i never go lower than a five unless i consider the shot bad or with no real effort made. |
Alas, it's hard to discern sarcasm from text. I'm glad my reaction wasn't too well founded!
Originally posted by bohemka:
I am convinced, however, that there is a subset of the population that vindictively votes down the competition, harshly so if it's a perceived threat to their own final standing. I think that's the thing that really bums a lot of people out. |
Yeah. If I'm honest I used to like taking my anger at my poor scores out on everyone else when I started here. Not in a heavy way, more in giving a 5 instead of a 6, for example. Fortunately I came to terms with my scores and haven't done that at all recently. I'm really glad I stopped doing that. Maybe it comes with maturity, not of age but of photography?
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02/22/2011 12:23:53 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by bohemka:
I am convinced, however, that there is a subset of the population that vindictively votes down the competition, harshly so if it's a perceived threat to their own final standing. I think that's the thing that really bums a lot of people out. |
its pretty obvious that the case. |
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02/22/2011 12:52:10 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by bohemka:
I am convinced, however, that there is a subset of the population that vindictively votes down the competition, harshly so if it's a perceived threat to their own final standing. I think that's the thing that really bums a lot of people out. |
its pretty obvious that the case. |
The solution to these problems is pretty simple. All we have to do is eliminate the ability to watch your photo progress, and not allow entrants to vote in challenges they have submitted for.
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02/22/2011 12:55:43 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by crowis:
...and not allow entrants to vote in challenges they have submitted for. |
Thereby absolutely gutting the voter base... We don't have so many active participants that we can afford to deny voting privileges to entrants. In the Best of 2010 there were 400+ entries, and the blue ribbon image got 195 votes...
R. |
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02/22/2011 12:57:11 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by crowis:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by bohemka:
I am convinced, however, that there is a subset of the population that vindictively votes down the competition, harshly so if it's a perceived threat to their own final standing. I think that's the thing that really bums a lot of people out. |
its pretty obvious that the case. |
The solution to these problems is pretty simple. [...] not allow entrants to vote in challenges they have submitted for. |
I like this. |
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02/22/2011 01:08:41 PM · #34 |
A 1 is as much of a "Troll vote" as a 10...just my 2 cents...
Just go out shooting and don't fret about the votes...it's not worth it!
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02/22/2011 01:12:45 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by gcoulson:
Originally posted by crowis:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by bohemka:
I am convinced, however, that there is a subset of the population that vindictively votes down the competition, harshly so if it's a perceived threat to their own final standing. I think that's the thing that really bums a lot of people out. |
its pretty obvious that the case. |
The solution to these problems is pretty simple. [...] not allow entrants to vote in challenges they have submitted for. |
I like this. |
I like this to but  Bear_Music is correct in saying there would not be enough voters if this were the case.
I usually give a crap snap shot type photo a 4 & only very rarely a 3, i also now vote in the challenges i'm in, i never used to before. |
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02/22/2011 01:13:25 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by crowis:
...and not allow entrants to vote in challenges they have submitted for. |
Thereby absolutely gutting the voter base... We don't have so many active participants that we can afford to deny voting privileges to entrants. In the Best of 2010 there were 400+ entries, and the blue ribbon image got 195 votes...
R. |
Love ya Music. You are always an awesome add on to the discussion.
I agree, this move would virtually gut the voter base. However, this is more of an issue with DP Challenge as a whole, and not proxy to this argument. My solution would fix the problem without a doubt. Then it would highlight another problem with DP Challenge. We don't attract a wide enough audience. If we had a thousand votes on every shot, a small number of folks could downvote whatever they wanted and it wouldn't matter. The difficulty IMHO on this site is simple. It only attracts people (minus the tourists who like pretty photo's) who want to compete at this level or learn to compete at this level.
Then we have subtract those who get angry about random issues, or people who leave due to anger over the voting methodology/vs skill level and on and on and on. etc.
In the end we are slowly becoming a very inbred little photography club. . .and while new members are welcome (thanks to the community for welcoming me back btw), we aren't getting enough of them to offset the low vote or popularity issues continually brought up.
Wish I were smart enough to solve this. . .but not so much.
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02/22/2011 01:27:56 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by bohemka:
I am convinced, however, that there is a subset of the population that vindictively votes down the competition, harshly so if it's a perceived threat to their own final standing. I think that's the thing that really bums a lot of people out. |
its pretty obvious that the case. |
I won't deny that there is objective evidence that there are a *very* few voters who do this. When I say few I mean that if you can identify one specifically by votes cast, you have really accomplished something. The fact is, we have fairer voting with better oversight here at DPC than anywhere else I am aware of. And I can back that up with data.
Message edited by author 2011-02-22 13:29:04. |
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02/22/2011 01:47:19 PM · #38 |
It WOULD be fascinating to run a site-wide experiment where score-viewing during voting was disabled for, say, a month, and then do an analysis on the voting. Would it make a difference? Who knows? But in the end, it's all arbitrary; it's like a semantic argument. If we were were less hung up on the SCORE and more hung up on the PLACEMENT, then we'd stop whining about whether an image dropped from 6.5 to 6.3 but actually deserves 7.1 or some such nonsense, and just live in the gestalt of where the image ranked amongst the fellow-competitors.
In other words, it's sort of weird that I'm vaguely annoyed because my current blue ribbon shot "only" got a 6.8 score. That's ridiculous, and I know it. I should be 100% happy that it was judged "best of the entries" and not get hung up on the actual score.
R. |
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02/22/2011 02:00:44 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It WOULD be fascinating to run a site-wide experiment where score-viewing during voting was disabled for, say, a month, and then do an analysis on the voting. Would it make a difference? Who knows? But in the end, it's all arbitrary; it's like a semantic argument. If we were were less hung up on the SCORE and more hung up on the PLACEMENT, then we'd stop whining about whether an image dropped from 6.5 to 6.3 but actually deserves 7.1 or some such nonsense, and just live in the gestalt of where the image ranked amongst the fellow-competitors.
In other words, it's sort of weird that I'm vaguely annoyed because my current blue ribbon shot "only" got a 6.8 score. That's ridiculous, and I know it. I should be 100% happy that it was judged "best of the entries" and not get hung up on the actual score.
R. |
Couldn't agree more. I think we hamper ourselves with information at some points. And while I find it fascinating, it could be hurting us an the site.
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02/22/2011 02:05:48 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
In other words, it's sort of weird that I'm vaguely annoyed because my current blue ribbon shot "only" got a 6.8 score. That's ridiculous, and I know it. I should be 100% happy that it was judged "best of the entries" and not get hung up on the actual score.
R. |
i would say try scoring a 7+ and not getting a ribbon, but you are already part of that club. |
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02/22/2011 02:09:46 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It WOULD be fascinating to run a site-wide experiment where .... |
.... only ubique is allowed to vote on all challenges for a month. Thus there could by definition be no Troll votes at all; every vote would be normal and 100% representative of the (then) voting population.
Q: What would explain those low votes then?
A: Same thing that does now.
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02/22/2011 02:11:38 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
I would say try scoring a 7+ and not getting a ribbon, but you are already part of that club. |
Yup, I did have 5 of those but one of them elevated when a ribbon was DQ'd. Heck, I have one that didn't even take honorable mention with a score of 7.1+ and a 7th-place finish...
R. |
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02/22/2011 02:12:05 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It WOULD be fascinating to run a site-wide experiment where .... |
.... only ubique is allowed to vote on all challenges for a month. Thus there could by definition be no Troll votes at all; every vote would be normal and 100% representative of the (then) voting population.
Q: What would explain those low votes then?
A: Same thing that does now. |
ROFLMAO |
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02/22/2011 02:34:33 PM · #44 |
Let's all remember that photography is an ART.
So, Van Gogh sold one painting in his entire life and that one to his brother who supported him. None of his contemporaries thought much of him either. He certainly got in his life the worst mark for behaviour and the highest for endurance, and that's about it.
It's not a great example but:
- a vote is a vote is a vote and from a wide demographic group. We have in common only the language and a camera.
- if we want to establish a new mark for effort, let's call it "E" and forgo the 1, 2, or 3 and there would be no hurt feelings.
- I assume that we all try our best, considering the time, quite limited for a lot of us. Sometimes we think that we produced a great image, sometimes we just participate for maintaining the discipline that we might strive for.
- almost all of us get at least one pat on the back from someone else.
What is the problem?
Message edited by author 2011-02-22 15:23:42. |
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02/22/2011 02:50:01 PM · #45 |
mariuca, dont try to come here and make sense...
Message edited by author 2011-02-22 14:50:31. |
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02/22/2011 02:53:16 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by mariuca:
So, Van Gogh sold one painting in his entire life and that one to his brother who supported him. None of his contemporaries thought much of him either. He certainly got in his life the worst mark for behaviour and the highest for endurance, and that's about it. |
Say, I've been trying to figure out which famous artist my DPC experience most resembles -- I think you've hit on a winner ... ;-) |
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02/22/2011 02:55:19 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by mariuca:
So, Van Gogh sold one painting in his entire life and that one to his brother who supported him. None of his contemporaries thought much of him either. He certainly got in his life the worst mark for behaviour and the highest for endurance, and that's about it. |
Say, I've been trying to figure out which famous artist my DPC experience most resembles -- I think you've hit on a winner ... ;-) |
mine would be Johann Sebastion Bach |
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02/22/2011 03:21:36 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by mariuca:
So, Van Gogh sold one painting in his entire life and that one to his brother who supported him. None of his contemporaries thought much of him either. He certainly got in his life the worst mark for behaviour and the highest for endurance, and that's about it. |
Say, I've been trying to figure out which famous artist my DPC experience most resembles -- I think you've hit on a winner ... ;-) |
mine would be Johann Sebastion Bach |
You sit around all day pounding an organ? ;-)
Hope your kids turn out as talented as his! |
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02/22/2011 03:31:23 PM · #49 |
| lol, i was making reference to the fact that he was blind and had no eye for photography. |
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02/22/2011 03:32:04 PM · #50 |
[quote=GeneralE] [quote=mike_311]
You sit around all day pounding an organ? ;-)
A little Wikipedia about JS Bach:
"... he was not widely recognized as a great composer until a revival of interest and performances of his music in the first half of the 19th century" (although he got "good marks" from compatriots as a respectable organist)
Bach quite loved his wives and I am afraid that had some use for glasses also. But all in great style and great taste! |
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