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01/17/2011 05:35:06 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
My camera, the Canon 5D, is notorious for sensor dust. Because of the imperative need to clean the sensor often, I have developed an efficient workflow. I make sure the camera batteries have a full charge. I pour a glass of Dewar's Scotch and take one sip. I play Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" on my stereo. (highly recommended) I lay out the Pec Pads and Eclipse fluid in front of me, along with the battery powered blower, the electrostatic soft brush and wet-swab swipe with fresh (pristine) pec pad properly attached. No compressed air for me...I've heard too many horror stories about compressed air blowers... both due to oil residue in that system and forcing particles deeper into the sensor box.
So, in a nutshell. I use the battery powered blower to "gently" blow out the big particles from the sensor "box". Then, I use the electrically charged soft brush to gently lift particles off the glass above the sensor. Final step is to use the wet swab to "mop" up the non-particulates and particulates that resist the previous blowing & sweeps. I think the secret to the wet swab is to use a correctly moistened swab. My rule is four drops, wait five seconds and only sweep the sensor in one direction, one time... quick evaporation, no residue.
During the warm, dry season, I'll clean my sensor once per week. During the cold, wet season, about once a month works great. I've never paid ANYONE to do this cleaning task for me. I only trust "me". |
You might consider the HPA, I can't really speak to the forcing of particles deeper into the sensor area, except that since I hold the straw 1/4" away from the sensor I'm fairly sure most of the air is taking the stuff out with it, I would not recommend just blowing casually into the area, that would make all the dust in front of the sensor area tend to migrate back, oh and hot glue your straw into the can, you don't want that becoming a projectile..
But as for the oil? that's not an issue, as the wet-swab will no doubt remove any minor oil that might be present in the air - actually I find myself far more concerned about the bittergent that they add to deter inhalant abuse, but again, that should be fully removed by any subsequent wet cleaning..
Especially when I'm using a 5D, I use the HPA daily - as you really aren't kidding about those things being dust magnets... I put one in a dusty room once, and after a few hours the room was clean, but the camera was a mess... ;) |
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01/17/2011 05:37:13 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by hahn23:
My camera, the Canon 5D, is notorious for sensor dust. Because of the imperative need to clean the sensor often, I have developed an efficient workflow. I make sure the camera batteries have a full charge. I pour a glass of Dewar's Scotch and take one sip. I play Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" on my stereo. (highly recommended) I lay out the Pec Pads and Eclipse fluid in front of me, along with the battery powered blower, the electrostatic soft brush and wet-swab swipe with fresh (pristine) pec pad properly attached. No compressed air for me...I've heard too many horror stories about compressed air blowers... both due to oil residue in that system and forcing particles deeper into the sensor box.
So, in a nutshell. I use the battery powered blower to "gently" blow out the big particles from the sensor "box". Then, I use the electrically charged soft brush to gently lift particles off the glass above the sensor. Final step is to use the wet swab to "mop" up the non-particulates and particulates that resist the previous blowing & sweeps. I think the secret to the wet swab is to use a correctly moistened swab. My rule is four drops, wait five seconds and only sweep the sensor in one direction, one time... quick evaporation, no residue.
During the warm, dry season, I'll clean my sensor once per week. During the cold, wet season, about once a month works great. I've never paid ANYONE to do this cleaning task for me. I only trust "me". |
You might consider the HPA, I can't really speak to the forcing of particles deeper into the sensor area, except that since I hold the straw 1/4" away from the sensor I'm fairly sure most of the air is taking the stuff out with it, I would not recommend just blowing casually into the area, that would make all the dust in front of the sensor area tend to migrate back, oh and hot glue your straw into the can, you don't want that becoming a projectile..
But as for the oil? that's not an issue, as the wet-swab will no doubt remove any minor oil that might be present in the air - actually I find myself far more concerned about the bittergent that they add to deter inhalant abuse, but again, that should be fully removed by any subsequent wet cleaning..
Especially when I'm using a 5D, I use the HPA daily - as you really aren't kidding about those things being dust magnets... I put one in a dusty room once, and after a few hours the room was clean, but the camera was a mess... ;) |
Well said! |
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01/17/2011 05:46:30 PM · #28 |
| On the issue of tape, I would think that 3M Scotch tape would be the worst possible choice. It is prone to tearing, and the adhesion is high enough that the risk of delaminating off the cellophane base, particularly if the tape has been exposed to UV light for any length of time would be dangerously high. 3M Painter's Masking tape would be a much safer choice, either the blue for lower adhesion or the green for high adhesion, because the adhesive is much less prone to balling, giving a clean removal with very little residue left. They are more costly than Scotch tape, but made primarily with a focus on good grip and a clean removal on a variety of surfaces from glass to unsealed wood, as opposed to cellophane tape which is designed to stay adhered once applied. |
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01/17/2011 05:52:03 PM · #29 |
I let  rugman1969 clean my sensor. He uses the "spit shine" method. He first takes the lens off and blows on the mirror to get rid of the big stuff. Then he lifts the mirror in the usual manner and spits (just a tiny bit) onto the sensor. He uses a paper towel (any brand will do) to wipe the spit off. If your photos look dreary after the first cleaning, he will do another cleaning for no charge.
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by hahn23:
My camera, the Canon 5D, is notorious for sensor dust. Because of the imperative need to clean the sensor often, I have developed an efficient workflow. I make sure the camera batteries have a full charge. I pour a glass of Dewar's Scotch and take one sip. I play Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" on my stereo. (highly recommended) I lay out the Pec Pads and Eclipse fluid in front of me, along with the battery powered blower, the electrostatic soft brush and wet-swab swipe with fresh (pristine) pec pad properly attached. No compressed air for me...I've heard too many horror stories about compressed air blowers... both due to oil residue in that system and forcing particles deeper into the sensor box.
So, in a nutshell. I use the battery powered blower to "gently" blow out the big particles from the sensor "box". Then, I use the electrically charged soft brush to gently lift particles off the glass above the sensor. Final step is to use the wet swab to "mop" up the non-particulates and particulates that resist the previous blowing & sweeps. I think the secret to the wet swab is to use a correctly moistened swab. My rule is four drops, wait five seconds and only sweep the sensor in one direction, one time... quick evaporation, no residue.
During the warm, dry season, I'll clean my sensor once per week. During the cold, wet season, about once a month works great. I've never paid ANYONE to do this cleaning task for me. I only trust "me". |
You might consider the HPA, I can't really speak to the forcing of particles deeper into the sensor area, except that since I hold the straw 1/4" away from the sensor I'm fairly sure most of the air is taking the stuff out with it, I would not recommend just blowing casually into the area, that would make all the dust in front of the sensor area tend to migrate back, oh and hot glue your straw into the can, you don't want that becoming a projectile..
But as for the oil? that's not an issue, as the wet-swab will no doubt remove any minor oil that might be present in the air - actually I find myself far more concerned about the bittergent that they add to deter inhalant abuse, but again, that should be fully removed by any subsequent wet cleaning..
Especially when I'm using a 5D, I use the HPA daily - as you really aren't kidding about those things being dust magnets... I put one in a dusty room once, and after a few hours the room was clean, but the camera was a mess... ;) |
Well said! |
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01/17/2011 06:15:10 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
On the issue of tape, I would think that 3M Scotch tape would be the worst possible choice. It is prone to tearing, and the adhesion is high enough that the risk of delaminating off the cellophane base, particularly if the tape has been exposed to UV light for any length of time would be dangerously high. 3M Painter's Masking tape would be a much safer choice, either the blue for lower adhesion or the green for high adhesion, because the adhesive is much less prone to balling, giving a clean removal with very little residue left. They are more costly than Scotch tape, but made primarily with a focus on good grip and a clean removal on a variety of surfaces from glass to unsealed wood, as opposed to cellophane tape which is designed to stay adhered once applied. |
Seems to me that the Post-IT notes would be the "best" choice in this realm. They, like the painters tape, are specifically designed to not stay stuck.. |
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01/17/2011 06:37:43 PM · #31 |
Well dangit, someone needs to do the official studies on the tape. Or better yet, someone needs to find out exactly what the filter is made from. If it's inert glass with no coatings, then there's little worry you are going to pull something off. If it has coatings, what are they and are they prone to flaking or solvents?
Timing could be important too. It's possible that scotch tape leaves a residue if you leave it affixed to something for hours or days, but here your literally pressing on and taking it off. I've more often had residue left from the eclipse not drying cleanly and you have to do the process over again. |
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01/17/2011 06:42:26 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well dangit, someone needs to do the official studies on the tape. Or better yet, someone needs to find out exactly what the filter is made from. If it's inert glass with no coatings, then there's little worry you are going to pull something off. If it has coatings, what are they and are they prone to flaking or solvents?
Timing could be important too. It's possible that scotch tape leaves a residue if you leave it affixed to something for hours or days, but here your literally pressing on and taking it off. I've more often had residue left from the eclipse not drying cleanly and you have to do the process over again. |
I can send you one from Spiff's old Rebel.. They seem to be coated glass, with at least a UV filter, perhaps more. |
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01/17/2011 06:47:07 PM · #33 |
| Do you literally have one? I have a 30x dissecting microscope and we could put some tape on it and remove it a few times and look for damage and residue at least at that magnification. We could do the same with the eclipse as well. Wouldn't be completely accurate, but might be a good start. If you mail it to me, I'm happy to send it back if you are keeping it for sentimental reasons. |
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01/17/2011 06:50:07 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
[quote=DrAchoo] Well dangit, someone needs to do the official studies on the tape. Or better yet, someone needs to find out exactly what the filter is made from. If it's inert glass with no coatings, then there's little worry you are going to pull something off. If it has coatings, what are they and are they prone to flaking or solvents? |
On most if not all DSLRs, the IR filter resides on the front (exposed) surface of the cover glass, and is comprised of thin layers of materials that reflect IR due to their thickness being near the wavelength of the IR radiation. The materials used for this layer vary. Some are more durable than others. In particular, the material used for the (original) 5D was ITO (Indium Tin Oxide) which is rather soft. Eclipse even offers a special formula for use on ITO-coated glass. Some users did report damage to their ITO coatings due to cleaning, but this probably had as much to do with the quality of the coating in specific cameras and/or the aggressiveness of the cleaning than the basic fitness of the ITO material. Personally, I would prefer a more durable material, and I am very careful with my sensor, given what I know about ITO and the history of the camera.
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01/17/2011 07:14:02 PM · #35 |
Here's an example of what it looks like if you have an "oops" while getting the smutz off. A little shard of metal from the lens mount area migrated to the sensor area, and the pec pad picked it up and caused the scratch. It's not too bad at f4 or wider, but at f8 or higher, it's a big problem. Repair for the Fuji S3 Pro is $400, so I went ahead and upgraded to the D7k.
Two lessons learned,
1 Always blow out the sensor area with a "Rocket" or similar blower before cleaning.
2 Always turn the camera with the lens mount down when changing lenses, so that anything loose will fall out of the camera instead of into it. This also helps keep the dust bunnies out of the camera.
Message edited by author 2011-01-17 19:16:15.
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01/17/2011 07:17:24 PM · #36 |
I would imagine you already know this, but,
//www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/methods.html
//www.photosol.com/swabproduct.htm
//www.photosol.com/eclipse_e2product.htm
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01/17/2011 07:25:33 PM · #37 |
| I hope you guys are joking with all the "tape" suggestions. That's waaaaay too tedious! A good squirt of bleach and a toothbrush works charms! |
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01/17/2011 10:39:18 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by kiwinick:
why stuff about doing it yourself when a proffessional clean is quick and reasonably priced. |
I have heard a few horror stories form having the local "pro" handle a simple cleaning.
If you get a seasoned veteran who has done the cleaning on your model camera hundreds if not thousands of times, it might well be worth the cost. If on the other hand once your camera goes behind the curtain, it may be in the hands of the kid who is working at close to minimum wage who usually does the stocking and runs the developing machine, who has little training and has never cleaned your camera body before, but heck, he has to learn sometime!
Since the copperhill method takes about fifteen minuets and having the pro do it takes my camera out of my hands for a day or so, and costs me the price of a portion of my next lens or gadget, why would you not just learn to do it yourself? If your hands are shaky, sure, have someone else deal with it, but if you can do it, you should. The risks of damage are not really much greater than if you send it off to have strangers do it. |
Actually The guys at Photoronic are the Agents for sony and Qualified Camera repair people Have been dealing with them for years and a Sensor Clean comes with a clean of all the surruonding area and a check over of the electronics as well. I think it is Money well spent, As a Pro photographer howften do you have your gear checked and reset? When Iwas doing weddings my gear ( film) was cleanrd and checked over annually. I nrever had a camera breakdown in all the years I was operating .
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01/18/2011 12:44:07 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Do you literally have one? I have a 30x dissecting microscope and we could put some tape on it and remove it a few times and look for damage and residue at least at that magnification. We could do the same with the eclipse as well. Wouldn't be completely accurate, but might be a good start. If you mail it to me, I'm happy to send it back if you are keeping it for sentimental reasons. |
Yeah, PM me with your address. You can keep it, I bought it and tore the thing apart for this beauty...
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01/18/2011 12:46:03 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by kiwinick:
why stuff about doing it yourself when a proffessional clean is quick and reasonably priced. |
I have heard a few horror stories form having the local "pro" handle a simple cleaning.
If you get a seasoned veteran who has done the cleaning on your model camera hundreds if not thousands of times, it might well be worth the cost. If on the other hand once your camera goes behind the curtain, it may be in the hands of the kid who is working at close to minimum wage who usually does the stocking and runs the developing machine, who has little training and has never cleaned your camera body before, but heck, he has to learn sometime!
Since the copperhill method takes about fifteen minuets and having the pro do it takes my camera out of my hands for a day or so, and costs me the price of a portion of my next lens or gadget, why would you not just learn to do it yourself? If your hands are shaky, sure, have someone else deal with it, but if you can do it, you should. The risks of damage are not really much greater than if you send it off to have strangers do it. |
Actually The guys at Photoronic are the Agents for sony and Qualified Camera repair people Have been dealing with them for years and a Sensor Clean comes with a clean of all the surruonding area and a check over of the electronics as well. I think it is Money well spent, As a Pro photographer howften do you have your gear checked and reset? When Iwas doing weddings my gear ( film) was cleanrd and checked over annually. I nrever had a camera breakdown in all the years I was operating . |
I'm no pro, but I clean it every two weeks give or take. Along with a visual inspection of all the visible mechanical bits. No way I could even think about affording that. |
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01/18/2011 12:49:13 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
Here's an example of what it looks like if you have an "oops" while getting the smutz off. A little shard of metal from the lens mount area migrated to the sensor area, and the pec pad picked it up and caused the scratch. It's not too bad at f4 or wider, but at f8 or higher, it's a big problem. Repair for the Fuji S3 Pro is $400, so I went ahead and upgraded to the D7k.
Two lessons learned,
1 Always blow out the sensor area with a "Rocket" or similar blower before cleaning.
2 Always turn the camera with the lens mount down when changing lenses, so that anything loose will fall out of the camera instead of into it. This also helps keep the dust bunnies out of the camera. |
I'm puzzled by this. Honestly I've no idea what happened, but I seriously doubt that it could have been metal, as that looks like the scratch wasn't just a coating scratch, but a real scratch, one that ate into the glass... Simple hardness differences tell me that the metal can't scratch the glass, but a single grain of silica sand can definitely do that...
Then again, maybe it really is just the coating, and it did just make that big of a difference.. *shrug* |
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01/18/2011 12:49:59 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by timmi:
I hope you guys are joking with all the "tape" suggestions. That's waaaaay too tedious! A good squirt of bleach and a toothbrush works charms! |
You can totally substitute urine for bleach as long as you've eaten cabbage within the past week. |
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01/18/2011 11:08:28 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by timmi:
I hope you guys are joking with all the "tape" suggestions. That's waaaaay too tedious! A good squirt of bleach and a toothbrush works charms! |
You can totally substitute urine for bleach as long as you've eaten cabbage within the past week. |
And this thread was actually staying on track for the most part...(shakes head). :) |
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01/18/2011 12:59:08 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by timmi:
I hope you guys are joking with all the "tape" suggestions. That's waaaaay too tedious! A good squirt of bleach and a toothbrush works charms! |
You can totally substitute urine for bleach as long as you've eaten cabbage within the past week. |
And this thread was actually staying on track for the most part...(shakes head). :) |
I know, but you don't always have to point it out when I'm slacking off, besides, I've got to give Slippy a good chance first. ;)
Message edited by author 2011-01-18 12:59:20. |
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01/18/2011 02:26:57 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
On most if not all DSLRs, the IR filter resides on the front (exposed) surface of the cover glass, and is comprised of thin layers of materials that reflect IR due to their thickness being near the wavelength of the IR radiation. The materials used for this layer vary. Some are more durable than others. In particular, the material used for the (original) 5D was ITO (Indium Tin Oxide) which is rather soft. Eclipse even offers a special formula for use on ITO-coated glass. Some users did report damage to their ITO coatings due to cleaning, but this probably had as much to do with the quality of the coating in specific cameras and/or the aggressiveness of the cleaning than the basic fitness of the ITO material. Personally, I would prefer a more durable material, and I am very careful with my sensor, given what I know about ITO and the history of the camera. |
ITO is also what you have on a touchscreen in order to make it conductive. Hard metals do scratch it, but else you can pretty much touch it ;-) I agree with Jason, there is a bit too much paranoia around about sensor cleaning. Personally I use a very pure ethanol (ask in a drugstore) and cotton tips. The eclipse stuff is scandalously overpriced and toxic. |
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01/18/2011 02:38:21 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by MistyMucky:
The eclipse stuff is scandalously overpriced and toxic. |
Yes, it is scandalously over-priced, and in large amounts it is toxic, however it is not toxic to any degree for limited exposure, and is not a mutagen, carcinogen, etc.; heck, ethanol is toxic at high doses as well ;-)
FWIW, the key to buying an "eclipse substitute" is to look for the "residue on evaporation." It's specified in parts per million (ppm). You should be buying something that has less than 10ppm residue, preferably < 5ppm. If what you are buying does not have this parameter specified, it is not pure enough. Ethanol purchased at a drugstore is almost certainly not pure enough. I buy Methanol from a chemical supply house, and I typically pay around $15 for 500ml. This amount will probably last me 10 years or more, and I use it for more than just sensor cleaning.
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03/01/2011 01:12:08 AM · #47 |
| Hey, I just got that IR filter cover that cory had in the mail. I'll see what I can do with the dissecting microscope tomorrow and whether I can snap any pictures through the eyepiece. |
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03/01/2011 01:15:35 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Hey, I just got that IR filter cover that cory had in the mail. I'll see what I can do with the dissecting microscope tomorrow and whether I can snap any pictures through the eyepiece. |
:) I look forward to your observations, even if you just have to use the 180 macro.
ETA: I am somewhat impressed that it survived a trip in the mail, in nothing more than a ziplock and envelope..
Message edited by author 2011-03-01 01:16:38. |
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03/01/2011 01:23:27 AM · #49 |
| The funny thing is it's been long enough that I was all, "what the hell is this?". :) |
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03/01/2011 01:32:45 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The funny thing is it's been long enough that I was all, "what the hell is this?". :) |
Hehehe... I thought about putting some flour in there, but figured it might go over poorly. :) |
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