| Author | Thread |
|
|
10/11/2011 10:17:54 AM · #26 |
| I'm no scholar, but that should be another thread topic imo. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 10:32:04 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by nova:
I'm no scholar, but that should be another thread topic imo. |
I asked the question because part of Marko's original post described his roommate as religous and hence he was being hypocritical by having pre-marital sex. I simply wanted to know what religous (as opposed to college) rule has been broken here? |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 10:44:35 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I agree with a lot of things that have been said here. There are a couple of things to keep in mind:
You haven't liked your roommates actions. You think he's loud, obnoxious, and acts the way he shouldn't. Usually, people hope that type of kid has a wake up call.
Well, he's had his wake up call.
He's starting to realize that his actions have consequences. He's starting to realize that he's been doing it all wrong. He's starting to realize that he has to grow up.
Now let's see what type of person you are.
Are you the type of person that when someone hits bottom and starts getting a clue, that you turn up your nose and say "I told you so?" Or are you the type of person to try to help him turn his life around? So far you've done the I told you so route. Can you find it in yourself to help him become a better person?
Not only that, there's a girl and a baby involved in all of this. If you can't stand to think of being a voice of help and reason to him, why not think about the broader picture?
There's not much that you can do. But he could use a friend and a guide right now. Obviously his other friends haven't made an impact on him. Perhaps it's your turn and time. |
+ 1. I'm not going to go anywhere near the religious aspects of this thread. The girl could be prgnant or not, college is stressful and enough stress in a woman's life can cause her cycle to go off by a week or even more. You've already given him the sharp side of your tongue and I don't say I blame you. But now is the time to help the dude out, and maybe he'll be open to mending some of his obnoxious ways. BTW do the other roomies see him or his habits as objectionable? |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 10:50:44 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by nova:
I'm no scholar, but that should be another thread topic imo. |
I asked the question because part of Marko's original post described his roommate as religous and hence he was being hypocritical by having pre-marital sex. I simply wanted to know what religous (as opposed to college) rule has been broken here? |
They both attend a Christian college and both signed an agreement, a pledge, to abstain from premarital sex while attending the college. It's one of the conditions of attendance.
R.
|
|
|
|
10/11/2011 10:51:39 AM · #30 |
Be grateful for circumstances that help you figure out who you are and what you stand for.
Your room-mate's life is his own to live. And the young woman is thinking some difficult thoughts about her future & the life that seemed her own to live & which maybe for the next year is not going to be her own any more. You can't take responsibility for their actions. The decision you get to make is whether or not you will sit in judgement on these 2 people.
The only truth you can strive for, honestly, is the truth of yourself. Telling people what you think of them is not being truthful, it's sitting in judgement. This has destructive consequences & is not good for you. So I vote for inane pleasantries that keep the peace. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 10:53:38 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by sinistral_leo:
Just because Marko goes to a Christian school doesn't make him a saint. He is just a regular guy like you or I. You guys are persecuting him like he is the devil. Give the guy a break. |
I don't think we're persecuting him. He asked for honest feedback. A lot of us have given him that, some more bluntly than others. I'm pretty sure all of us LIKE Marko; I know I do. I'm sure he can handle the blunt feedback, or I wouldn't have offered it.
R.
|
|
|
|
10/11/2011 10:56:32 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by sinistral_leo:
Just because Marko goes to a Christian school doesn't make him a saint. He is just a regular guy like you or I. You guys are persecuting him like he is the devil. Give the guy a break. |
I don't think we're persecuting him. He asked for honest feedback. A lot of us have given him that, some more bluntly than others. I'm pretty sure all of us LIKE Marko; I know I do. I'm sure he can handle the blunt feedback, or I wouldn't have offered it.
R. |
It just seemed like everyone is holding him to a higher standard, that's all. Some of the craziest parties I've been to were hosted by Christian school students ;-O
|
|
|
|
10/11/2011 12:18:32 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Marko, if this was your son coming to you, would you respond the same way? It's hard for me to see any justification for blowing someone off like that when his (and the young lady's) world may be derailing and he shares his concerns with you. Your attitude seems to me smug and supercilious and entirely unhelpful. So much so that I believe you should be asking him for forgiveness.
It's not your job to judge him. It's not your job to rub his nose in the consequences of his actions. I'm with Ray on this one, basically ΓΆ€” your first paragraph reeks of hypocrisy; "I can't stand the dude, but I hide it so well he actually speaks highly of me!" Come ON, Marko, that's weak...
R. |
I agree Robert... He really should just let the guy know he despises him rather than attempting to keep the peace.
Really, in truth though, you might want to be honest with him about how you feel about him - he won't like it, but you are entitled to your opinion, and I do feel that one of the greatest gifts (even if it is painful) that we can ever give to someone is the truth, or at least our take on it.... Of course, I don't tend to give the truth to anyone that I dislike, simply because I have no interest in helping those whom I dislike, and I see that as being very helpful..
So, as I see it? The OP did him a favor, and should do him more favors if he wants to help - otherwise? He should just sit back, watch the guy "Buy the ticket, take the ride".... A bit of schadenfreude is good for the soul... ;) |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 12:58:17 PM · #34 |
| I'm just glad you let him in on your real feelings. I'm sure you'll figure it out from there. Advice is cheap. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 01:24:10 PM · #35 |
I don't have a lot of advice to give that hasn't been given in one form or another, and I don't envy your position at all.
That said, I'm more than a little "struck" by the fact that he may have gotten this girl pregnant -- fathered a child, and is worried about being kicked out of school??? Sounds like someone is going to have to grow up, and fast.
Good luck to you and him. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 01:56:52 PM · #36 |
Slow down everyone, and take a deep breath, please...first of all, we don't yet know for sure if the girl is pregnant. If so, well then, dude has the rest of his life pretty much cut out for him. Not that it would be any more of a picnic for the girl especially if she's a student at the college, too. If it is just a scare, and sincerely for the girl's sake more than the roommate's that it is one, then hopefully they'll actually learn a lesson or two.
As for the whole obnoxious roommate scenario....well...I lived in 17 different households from when I left home in my 20s to when I bought my house, and run into my share of those that you just can't get stand. Mostly I just ignored the obnoxious roommate and kept them at arm's length. Exchanges were civil but short; I don't mind being painted as the resident ice queen.
I know it's *nice* to pretend to like people you can't stand, in order to keep the peace, but all too often resentment and hostility builds up and leads to the kind of outburst Marko had with dude. That's when things can get ugly.
Just my .02 CDN worth. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 02:02:59 PM · #37 |
I dunno..... These young men made some personal commitments, both in their choice of higher education, plus a very specific commitment about pre-marital relations. From the description of the situation, it sounds like the young man in question has some pretty cavalier attitudes about both commitments.
Our Marko on the other hand, has *not* confronted this young man about his behavior because he has to live with him, despite some obnoxious behavior. Tolerance has its limits, and he basically called him on his behaviors once there became serious consequences to his antics.
As long as you're open to help your roommate if he asks and genuinely shows signs of changing his ways, I'd say you're fine.
You finally got a chance to make your position clear.
Just my $0.02 US.......YMMV....8~)
|
|
|
|
10/11/2011 02:17:20 PM · #38 |
I was part of a class on helping hurting people just yesterday that was put on by a hospital chaplain and he gave some advice on how to deal with situations like this. His second point was "Suspend judgement". If judgement is present then compassion isn't. This doesn't mean you can't be aware of the self-inflicted issues he has brought on himself, but it sounds like he was looking for someone to lend support.
Good examples from the Bible are the Parable of the Good Samaritan (though the Samaritan and the Jew typically shunned each other, it was the Samaritan that showed compassion for the man on the road) or Jesus with the woman at the well in John 4. Though she had had 5 husbands (scandal in the day) and men and women were not to consort with each other, Jesus gave her compassion and caring despite this. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 02:17:27 PM · #39 |
With so much to say on the subject I did not want to type it all out on my phone so I waited until I got to a computer.... Sorry to keep everyone waiting on a response.
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
It all depends on what you believe in.
If you believe in and practise the school's policies are you justified in judging him? |
I am a virgin and I plan on being one until marriage. I agree with the fact that at a Christian school there should be rules against this. That being said I know that I am a sinner and I do judge (one of my biggest problems in life and I am working on it every day).
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Marko, if this was your son coming to you, would you respond the same way? It's hard for me to see any justification for blowing someone off like that when his (and the young lady's) world may be derailing and he shares his concerns with you. Your attitude seems to me smug and supercilious and entirely unhelpful. So much so that I believe you should be asking him for forgiveness. |
I feel as if it were a son that came to me with the same problem I would have acted differently but with that said I feel like that would be a little bit of a different story. I just feel that the position of a father figure is different than that of an acquaintance. No, I do not completely disagree with you. I feel bad for saying that to him the way that I did which is why I even asked you all for advice in the first place. I did not know what to think last night after I said it so I thought I would ask everyone's opinion.
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Hate the sin, love the sinner, isn't that the Christian way? |
question for the bible scholars: Which of the 10 commandments (or any other commandment) does pre-marital sex breach? |
I am not a "bible thumper" as people like to call it where I know the bible in and out and all around. I know that as a Christian it is frowned upon to have premarital sex. I don't know any verses to back me up as I said before I am not a bible thumper. I just know that people look down on the act of sexual immorality which includes premarital sex and adultery.I did not want this thread to become a religious debate however I guess we sort of have to have some religion in the conversation to be able to understand the situation at hand.
Originally posted by nova:
This unloveable roommate might just turn out to be one of your life long friends. |
This is not the only person who said something similar to this and I would like to say right now that we have nothing in common and don't talk with one another much. I can not see myself hanging out with the kid outside of the room because we do not like the same things. Not to say that I don't think we could ever hang out I just don't see it as a high probability.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
He asked for honest feedback. A lot of us have given him that, some more bluntly than others. I'm pretty sure all of us LIKE Marko; I know I do. I'm sure he can handle the blunt feedback, or I wouldn't have offered it. |
This is exactly right! I came here knowing that I would get honest feedback even if I didn't like it. Some things that have been said I don't agree with but I definitely took them into consideration because I know that it is someone who has no "side" who spoke up and said what I don't see because I am swayed to one side of the predicament (as you can imagine).
Originally posted by snaffles:
Slow down everyone, and take a deep breath, please...first of all, we don't yet know for sure if the girl is pregnant.
I know it's *nice* to pretend to like people you can't stand, in order to keep the peace, but all too often resentment and hostility builds up and leads to the kind of outburst Marko had with dude. That's when things can get ugly. |
First off yes, we don't know if she is pregnant. Second, I agree that it has built up a time or two when I thought about bursting out in a fit of anger at him. Those times I tend to barricade myself in my corner and put my headphones in and listen to something soothing. 5 Minutes later I feel better and all is well with the world.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you all for your replies. I am truly thankful to be apart of a group of people as kind as you all. I am going to play it by ear from here on out and if he brings it back up I have decided that firstly I will apologies to him with the understanding that I still feel that he has messed up big time and that I do not agree with the actions he has taken. At that time I will proceed by telling him that although we may be different in many ways we are both religious and that we both have the same God who is willing to forgive and that he needs to take up his situation with him because I am not qualified to say anything about this situation any more.
|
|
|
|
10/11/2011 02:19:40 PM · #40 |
PS - For the people who PM'd me thank you for your support. I again feel honored to be friends with everyone here.
|
|
|
|
10/11/2011 02:20:00 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I was part of a class on helping hurting people just yesterday that was put on by a hospital chaplain and he gave some advice on how to deal with situations like this. His second point was "Suspend judgement". If judgement is present then compassion isn't. This doesn't mean you can't be aware of the self-inflicted issues he has brought on himself, but it sounds like he was looking for someone to lend support.
Good examples from the Bible are the Parable of the Good Samaritan (though the Samaritan and the Jew typically shunned each other, it was the Samaritan that showed compassion for the man on the road) or Jesus with the woman at the well in John 4. Though she had had 5 husbands (scandal in the day) and men and women were not to consort with each other, Jesus gave her compassion and caring despite this. |
+1 |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 02:25:19 PM · #42 |
Don't mean to sound harsh, but if he thinks this girl might be pregnant, then I'm thinking that you and what you said are the least of his worries.
If you can, take religion out of the picture for a bit, think of the situation as it is, put yourself in his shoes, and see how you feel. If you still feel the same way, then your approach is the correct one. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 02:31:16 PM · #43 |
I wish I had my iPad on me for notes, but let's see if I can come up with the Chaplain's main points:
1) Be present. When you listen, do it with your full attention.
2) Suspend judgement. When judgement is present, compassion isn't.
3)
4) Expect welcome / exhibit welcome. If you assume your presence isn't wanted less will come of the conversation (probably more important for his setting in specific)
5) Listen deeply. Be aware of the information of body language and surroundings.
6) Turn to wonder. Another judgement one. If you can't understand why someone would do something, wonder what underlying reasons have put the person in that situation that are beyond their control. Give them the benefit of the doubt.
7) No fixing.
Dang. Can't come up with one of them. :) I found it to be a very helpful class.
Message edited by author 2011-10-11 14:31:33. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 02:36:05 PM · #44 |
A good passage in a paraphrase (Matthew 9, The Message)
Later when Jesus was eating supper at Matthew's house with his close followers, a lot of disreputable characters came and joined them. When the Pharisees saw him keeping this kind of company, they had a fit, and lit into Jesus' followers. "What kind of example is this from your Teacher, acting cozy with crooks and riffraff?"
Jesus, overhearing, shot back, "Who needs a doctor: the healthy or the sick? Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."
|
|
|
|
10/11/2011 03:05:36 PM · #45 |
If the chemistry between you and your room mate doesn't dive deeper than the fact that you both cordially occupy space together, I'm surprised that he opened up to you even if he does speak highly of you on a superficial level.
At this point, your room mate had done his "job" and what you think about it really is irrelevant and a moot point.
If the girl is really pregnant, only her opinion will matter in the end.
So, I wouldn't give yourself too much credit (or blame) in your ability (or lack thereof) to help in this situation.
Just my two cents...;-) |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 03:07:09 PM · #46 |
Doc - Thank you for your reply that is religious based.
The story of the woman and the well is probably my favorite story from the Bible because I look up to the way Jesus acted in the situation he was put in. I agree that I judged him right from the start. For that I am, as said previously in this thread, a normal human. I sin and I know it. I ask God for forgiveness quite often for the sins I do.
I am trying to be a better person and I am trying to learn a lesson throughout all of this. I just hope I don't regret anything I do or don't do. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 03:12:25 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Doc - Thank you for your reply that is religious based.
The story of the woman and the well is probably my favorite story from the Bible because I look up to the way Jesus acted in the situation he was put in. I agree that I judged him right from the start. For that I am, as said previously in this thread, a normal human. I sin and I know it. I ask God for forgiveness quite often for the sins I do.
I am trying to be a better person and I am trying to learn a lesson throughout all of this. I just hope I don't regret anything I do or don't do. |
Hang in there. The fact you are aware that you aren't perfect is half the battle. :) You'll deal with this until your last breath... |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 03:49:21 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
From a personal viewpoint, I really think you need to re-read your first paragraph, think long and hard about it, and then determine if it is possible that you might be guilty of that which you accuse him of, namely being Very hypocritical.
I may be missing something here, but your own deeds are not those one would associate with good christians.
Ray |
Wheres the `like` button on here? |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 03:54:51 PM · #49 |
| This thread has completely ruined my decades long held view that going to school in America is just like Porkys. Spoilsports. |
|
|
|
10/11/2011 04:11:52 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
This thread has completely ruined my decades long held view that going to school in America is just like Porkys. Spoilsports. |
If you don't go to religious schools, it still is. |
|
