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02/25/2013 11:39:21 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Am I right in thinking that you would most likely embrace minimal if it only included the levels tool? |
Probably not. There are other issues that I think make Minimal, as written, far less than useful. The draconian limits on resizing and sharpening, for example. Who really cares whether something was resized once, twice, or in half a dozen steps? Additionally, there has to be some allowance for exposure adjustment, and not just levels. We shouldn't (ever) go down the tools-based ruleset path again. We should be able to "expose to the right" and pull back in post (or RAW conversion). That said, we need to accommodate RAW capture. It's silly to require people to go out and shoot JPEG. It (yet again) discourages best practice. I could go on.
All that said, I *do* see value in asking folks to focus (pun intended) on in-camera optimization. The prohibition on cropping is good, IMO as it directly emphasizes attention to composition. If we would modify Minimal to ensure that it drives us toward good practices, which is not equivalent to in-camera-as-final-result, then it would be a fun and engaging ruleset, and would challenge us to be better photographers. |
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02/25/2013 11:47:32 AM · #77 |
if it were modified to accommodate raw i would absolutely participate in minimal, i don't now, my camera stays in RAW and i have no will to change it. So i cant participate because i refuse to shoot jpg.
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02/25/2013 11:48:44 AM · #78 |
| Well, I don't think Minimal precludes RAW+JPG. But I mostly agree with all that. I am a a minimalist, but I wouldn't be caught dead shooting JPG only. Give Basic a no-crop rule and combine the two into one rule set... |
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02/25/2013 11:55:13 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by bvy:
Well, I don't think Minimal precludes RAW+JPG. But I mostly agree with all that. I am a a minimalist, but I wouldn't be caught dead shooting JPG only. Give Basic a no-crop rule and combine the two into one rule set... |
you need to go further since basic allows that god awful overcooking.
just take minimal allow raw and resize
no crop
no rotation (except 90 or 180 degrees)
allow exposure, contrast, saturation, vibrance, B/W conversion, sharpness. that should be it. no individual color desat, no clarity, no noise, etc.
Message edited by author 2013-02-25 11:55:34. |
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02/25/2013 11:58:26 AM · #80 |
| I totally agree with that, but I have no idea how you would police it. Not to mention, you can "overcook" with the simplest of tools. |
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02/25/2013 12:02:28 PM · #81 |
It amazes me when I check out "real-world" photo contests - they have little or no editing rules. Basically, just about anything is OK - up to the judges, and even then, it wouldn't be DQ'd, it just wouldn't win.
IMO, folks here think they're "typical" photographers, but they are not. While I'm probably not "typical" either, I have no trouble seeing why a "Self Portrait in a Crowd" challenge only pulls 25 entries.
In addition, a "typical" photographer would find this site extremely frustrating. Not everyone has photo editing software (and even if they do, don't know how to use it). Most "photographers" don't even know how to really use their camera (P&S on up).
DPC'ers - please realize there is a HUGE gap between your skill levels and the general population. In some ways, you are like a Mensa club discussing the finer points of influencers of cell metamorphosis and a high school C-student wanders into the room. She has as much of a chance to enter into the conversation meaningfully based on her Intro to Biology class as a semi-serious hobbyist has of getting a great score here.
It is to your great credit that many of you are willing to be friendly and helpful to the newbies, and some even try to help (which is sometimes a lost cause, and often shows little reward for your efforts).
In briefer terms, this place, and its "front page" are very intimidating. Very seldom do I see a front page shot where I think I could take a picture better than that. I think the more limited editing rules give beginners hope that they can at least "understand the conversation".
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02/25/2013 12:28:52 PM · #82 |
go look at 500px or 1x or worth 1000 and then let me know how intimidated you are by this place.
There are a handful so people who can make consistently good work and not all of them are experts at Photoshop.
I consider myself very well trained in Photoshop and you don't see me blowing anyone away with my PP talent.
the perception you have is what we need to change.
Message edited by author 2013-02-25 12:29:08. |
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02/25/2013 12:36:17 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by salmiakki:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
That started me wondering why I have never seen a side challenge for Minimal editing. snip
A side challenge for Minimal editing would be a great way to show off the benefits of this approach, plus it would give the Minimal enthusiasts a place to show off the results of their work & receive comments. I'm hoping someone will start a Minimal Side Challenge. I would follow it, for sure. |
Been a while but it's been done albeit this was a black and white SC |
Thanks for the link, I looked it over with interest. |
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02/25/2013 12:51:34 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
In briefer terms, this place, and its "front page" are very intimidating. Very seldom do I see a front page shot where I think I could take a picture better than that. I think the more limited editing rules give beginners hope that they can at least "understand the conversation". |
It's true that the front page might look intimidating to a newbie. It sure did to me back in 2002. My reaction, though, was not to run the other direction, but to say to myself "I need to learn to do that!"
I'm still learning. I'll never stop learning. If I do, bury me, 'cause I'll start to smell otherwise! The fact that so many photogs who "grew up" at DPC are now respected working pros is, IMO a validation of the effectiveness of the learning process that can and does occur here. We are surely not for everyone. We are for folks that really want to engage and learn photography. I don't think that dumbing down the conversation is the answer to engaging newcomers, as long as there are kind, helpful DPCers to encourage the new entrants. |
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