Discussion of Current Photos - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

07/25/2002 01:25:36 PM · #1

Hey all,

Some users of the site have questioned whether discussion of photos currently being voted on is appropriate. On one side, there is the argument that submissions are anonymous, with the implication that they should remain in all ways anonymous until the end of the challenge. Balanced against that is the fact that there is value to be obtained in these real-time discussions, both in improvement of ourselves as photographers and in the development of our community.

I basically see three directions we can go at this point:

1. Allow unrestricted discussion of "live" photos (no change except an official "position statement" from administration that this is acceptable) in any folder or any thread.

2. Disallow all discussion of "live" photos. Hide all posts/threads which violate this and deal with any repeat offenders appropriately.

3. Allow discussion of "live" photos in a dedicated folder only. This would allow those who wish to engage in such discussions to do so while allowing those who don't want to know which photos are whose to avoid the discussions. Hide all posts/threads of "live" photos outside this folder and deal with any repeat offenders through appropriately.

Other suggestions are, of course, welcome, and I'll weigh in with my opinion later.

-Terry

welcher

Canon EOS-5D

07/25/2002 01:38:10 PM · #2

Who says that photos being discussed in "real time" have to lose their anonymity? I mean, there's nothing forcing the photographer to come out and claim the photo. Might be hard to resist if one sees one's photo being discussed, though.

Also, for us more competitive folks, it might be hard to resist "talking up" one's photo, while pretending to not be the photographer.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

07/25/2002 01:40:35 PM · #3

Originally posted by welcher:
Who says that photos being discussed in "real time" have to lose their anonymity? I mean, there''s nothing forcing the photographer to come out and claim the photo. Might be hard to resist if one sees one''s photo being discussed, though.

Also, for us more competitive folks, it might be hard to resist "talking up" one''s photo, while pretending to not be the photographer.

I''m talking about the numerous threads this week where a photographer has come out and said which was theirs -- either so they could ask about a comment or explain the photo.

And no, we can''t put into place a rule that says that if a photographer talks about their OWN photo it gets disqualified. Even the moderators/admins have no way to know which is whose until voting is over.
-Terry

* This message has been edited by the author on 7/25/2002 1:41:38 PM.

mci

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

07/25/2002 01:41:36 PM · #4

My vote is for no restrictions. When in doubt, go with the 1st amendment.

- Mike

sheyingshi88

07/25/2002 01:48:32 PM · #5

Terry,

I'd be more in favor of keeping anonimynity during the challenge. It holds down groups of people voting each other up, and keeps down the vendettas. What I would like to see is a small box under an entry where the photographer might give a (very) short explanation, say limited to 100 characters or so. It might help reduce the 'doesn't fit the challenge' comments if one could explain where he's coming from.

FranziskaLang

Nikon D100

07/25/2002 02:11:19 PM · #6

i would vote for anonymity, too. it makes the voting process more fair in the first place because people aren't influenced (be it consciously or not) by who the photographer is.

i would also vote for no supporting information. photos should be able to stand on their own. if you get many comments of 'i don't get it', that doesn't necessarily mean you haven't met the challenge, but that does mean that you have not been as successful as you may want in bringing your point across at the multitude of people with different backgrounds that look at it.

i would encourage discussion afterwards. people already do post comments and explanations afterwards, both in the forums and with their photos. part of the fun of mondays for me is to read up on the photos that puzzled me during the preceeding week.

just my two cents ...

07/25/2002 02:12:18 PM · #7

Although I am in no way in favor of restrictions, I look at is as a given that photographers would like to remain annonymous - as that is part of the fun. IMHO, photographs should stand on their own, without the need of explanation. If you didn't shoot the subject in a way to express the challenge, or for people to be able to identify what it is, or to relate to it in any way then you didn't push yourself. Hey. I know. I'm one of them sometimes. But that's part of the learning process too. "What could I have done to make this more clear to the viewer". Validations/explanations are usually found later in the description under the photo at the end of the challenge.
I don't think people would down a photo because of hard feelings about someone, I just think, strictly photo speaking, it is or should be more of a (ugh... i can't think of the word....) help me out here... an unspoken rule. (?)

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

07/25/2002 02:16:45 PM · #8

I want to clarify what I'm asking here. We're not talking about making the challenges non-anonymous. What we're talking about is what to do about people posting about their own photographs in the forums.

-Terry

FranziskaLang

Nikon D100

07/25/2002 02:19:15 PM · #9

understood, clubjuggle. and all i was sayis is that i personally would prefer people waited with photo discussions until after the voting is over. there are several photos that were discussed this week that i have cast my initial vote on and that i was going to go back and look at in more detail and comment and potentially change my vote (up or down). i am now not doing this because i don''t look at the photos in the same light anymore. i know too much background about them. so i''ll just leave those votes alone and don''t comment.

having said that ... i TOTALLY enjoyed reading the discussion threads on them, they certainly made me grin a lot! :)

* This message has been edited by the author on 7/25/2002 2:19:14 PM.

07/25/2002 02:20:04 PM · #10

Are you referring to me? I'm talking about that too. Perhaps I was too garbled. What can I clarify?

Froober

Canon EOS-10D

07/25/2002 02:25:39 PM · #11

My two cents:

Of course, it's totally up to Drew and Langdon, but I vote for #3. I think some people take this challenge much too seriously. We're not competing for an actual prize and (sorry D&L) but the #1 spot doesn't exactly hold the prestige of say...the Nobel Prize. IMO, we're all here to learn to become better photographers (and maybe have a little fun in the process). IF that is the mission of this site, then forum policies should support an environment for optimum learning. If we hold off discussion of photos until voting is closed, we will be discussing photos that were taken up to 2 weeks prior. I can barely remember yesterday much less two weeks ago...the passion wears off and I just move on to thinking about the current submissions and what I'll be doing for the next challenge. In other words, I don't learn anything from a specific challenge after the voting is completed. As far as swaying votes is concerned, I think we all have enough moral fiber to stick to our original votes (and to avoid the current challenge discussions until we're done voting). Finally, do you really want to force those people with a bee in their bonnet to keep quiet for a whole week...isn't that kind of sadistic? Let 'em vent...they'll only feel worse if they've got to hold it in.

That said...whatever is decided will be fine by me...good question clubjuggle!

07/25/2002 02:26:09 PM · #12

Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
Are you referring to me? I'm talking about that too. Perhaps I was too garbled. What can I clarify?

Actually, I was. You comment led me to believe you thought we were considering doing away with anonymity entirely. I reread your comments and think I understand it better, but what would you suggest as an official policy?

-Terry

drewmedia

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

07/25/2002 02:34:26 PM · #13

Let me go ahead and throw this out, because it should be included in your opinion.

Prized challenges are coming.

Should those be open discussion, too? Just non-prized? Neither?

I'll hold my opinion til everyone else chimes in :)

Drew

BAMartin

Apple iPhone 5

07/25/2002 02:39:09 PM · #14

Originally posted by drewmedia:
Let me go ahead and throw this out, because it should be included in your opinion.

Prized challenges are coming.

Should those be open discussion, too? Just non-prized? Neither?

I'll hold my opinion til everyone else chimes in :)

Drew

Definately NO discussion if there are prizes! Just my humble opinions, but if you think there is an uproar now, just think what it would be if there were prizes to be won.

Froober

Canon EOS-10D

07/25/2002 02:39:33 PM · #15

Originally posted by drewmedia:
Let me go ahead and throw this out, because it should be included in your opinion.

Prized challenges are coming.

Should those be open discussion, too? Just non-prized? Neither?

I'll hold my opinion til everyone else chimes in :)

Drew

You just had to make things more complicated...didn't you?? LOL. I'm off to ponder.

FranziskaLang

Nikon D100

07/25/2002 02:40:43 PM · #16

i've already posted my 2 cents ... no change in my opinion.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

07/25/2002 02:42:56 PM · #17

Originally posted by BAMartin:
Originally posted by drewmedia:
[i]Let me go ahead and throw this out, because it should be included in your opinion.

Prized challenges are coming.

Should those be open discussion, too? Just non-prized? Neither?

I'll hold my opinion til everyone else chimes in :)

Drew

Definately NO discussion if there are prizes! Just my humble opinions, but if you think there is an uproar now, just think what it would be if there were prizes to be won.
[/i]

What should the penalty be, if any, for someone posting about their photo if discussion is forbidden? Should the post just be hidden or should there be additional action? Assume that most people who violate this don't know it's against the rules.

-Terry

hokie

Nikon D2X

07/25/2002 02:42:58 PM · #18

I have started to make some semi-canned (meaning I tailor the canned response to the photo) responses to the photos and leaving my name and score.

What I like that john and swashbuckler do are they comment, leave their score and their name.

If I felt so compelled to discuss my photo before the voting was over I feel perfectly fine contacting the folks who have already voted on my photo via e-mail. Not to change their opinion, but mainly as a way to get some ideas off my chest while the voting is hot and fresh.

I have not felt so inclined because, normally, the folks like John or swashbuckler or whovever have a clear enough voting pattern and submission record that I can gather a lot from their comments by simply referring to their history.

So...My suggestion. Lets make comments and the commenters visible when the comment is made and let the folks work it out away from the boards. I do not like discussing photos in the forums while the voting is going on and the couple of times I have done this I have regretted it tremendously.

I sign my comments and I will be more than happy to talk about your photo via e-mail.

* This message has been edited by the author on 7/25/2002 2:43:20 PM.

sheyingshi88

07/25/2002 02:43:52 PM · #19

Originally posted by clubjuggle:
I want to clarify what I'm asking here. We're not talking about making the challenges non-anonymous. What we're talking about is what to do about people posting about their own photographs in the forums.

-Terry

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear, but that's the anonymity I was talking about also. If no one but me wants an 'artist's explanation' on the entry's page (which is fine by me), then we shouldn't have people doing basically the same thing in the forums.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

07/25/2002 02:45:12 PM · #20

Originally posted by clubjuggle:
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
[i]Are you referring to me? I'm talking about that too. Perhaps I was too garbled. What can I clarify?

Actually, I was. You comment led me to believe you thought we were considering doing away with anonymity entirely. I reread your comments and think I understand it better, but what would you suggest as an official policy?

-Terry
[/i]

I was about to say that there really shouldn't be a policy, just that discussing your photo in order to explain it or whatever should be a General Photographer Feau-Pas (can't spell or talk today... sorry!).
Now that Drew is talking about prizes.. well.
Have to think about that... other sites allow discussion before a prize is given. Then again... thought this site would be different... jury is out.

welcher

Canon EOS-5D

07/25/2002 02:46:47 PM · #21

My motivations about discussion "live" photos isn't to clarify any of my comments, but rather to get some good, healthy discussion about some photos. There's a tendancy here to forget the last challenge soon after it's over, and I think some good learning opportunities go out the window with it. I think putting "live" photos in play would make for some more constructive posts. Of course, it could also influence voters, so...

The "critique" forum being discussed in another thread would be another good solution to this.

And prizes? Where are Setzler, Tim, and the other regulars gonna put all their loot! ;)