Darned Descriptions!! - DPChallenge Forums

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

02/03/2025 09:20:46 AM · #1

I absolutely HATE them. They are almost never necessary, rarely helpful, and frequently the opposite. ~~End of rant.~~

Message edited by author 2025-02-03 11:05:04.

Panasonic Leica DG Vario-Elmarit 8-18mm f/2.8-4 ASPH

02/03/2025 10:07:46 AM · #2

But they’re great for regurgitating in comments, eh? I think I know where you’re coming from. :-)

ThingFish

Olympus OM-D E-M5

02/03/2025 10:20:05 AM · #3

Originally posted by nam:

I absolutely HATE them. They are almost never necessary, rarely helpful, and frequently the opposite. End of rant.

Wrong forum for venting your rants...there is a special section for that...have a look and you will find it.

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

02/03/2025 10:31:49 AM · #4

Originally posted by ThingFish:

Originally posted by nam:
I absolutely HATE them. They are almost never necessary, rarely helpful, and frequently the opposite. End of rant.

Wrong forum for venting your rants...there is a special section for that...have a look and you will find it.

Sorry. I can strike the final sentence LOL Or maybe just have admin close the discussion. Either is fine with me - I wasn't being particularly serious.

Panasonic Leica DG Vario-Elmarit 8-18mm f/2.8-4 ASPH

02/03/2025 10:38:27 AM · #5

Nikki - it’s fine. LOL. Not really a “rant” level post. Carry on.

ThingFish

Olympus OM-D E-M5

02/03/2025 02:01:39 PM · #6

Originally posted by nam:

Originally posted by ThingFish:

Originally posted by nam:
I absolutely HATE them. They are almost never necessary, rarely helpful, and frequently the opposite. End of rant.

Wrong forum for venting your rants...there is a special section for that...have a look and you will find it.

Sorry. I can strike the final sentence LOL Or maybe just have admin close the discussion. Either is fine with me - I wasn't being particularly serious.

Quote "I wasn't being particularly serious."Unquote Lol neither was I😏

3DsArcher

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II USM

02/03/2025 03:45:47 PM · #7

The error I made in the Event Photography challenge was that I only read the description that was on the home page "Document the atmosphere, interactions, and key moments that occur..."If I had read the full description on the entering page "... during concerts, corporate functions, and parties" I would never have entered a sports photography photo. That was purely my error & to be honest I expected some fall out from it. The crazy thing was that for the first 6 1/2 days of voting I was on for a PB & would probably have come second.

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark III

02/03/2025 04:49:57 PM · #8

Originally posted by 3DsArcher:

In the case of the events challenge I considered "concerts, corporate functions, and parties" just as a few examples of events and I used a general definition of events as a guide in my voting. If I did not see an event of any kind I downvoted the image.

Very often the description just provides a clear and generally accepted definition of the title of the challenge. I think also in the case of the current challenge referred to (is assumption on my side). I think that is perfect.

A challenge is always about posing limitations for your submission and trying to work within those limitations. That is the whole point: do the best you can do within the limitations given. Whether an image fits within the challenge is a clear differentiator in my voting. This determines for me whether an image will be from 5 downwards or from 5 upwards.

Sometimes the description is debatable or wrong, ref. discussion about "duotones".

Often you see that images don't adhere to the challenge even when the title is clarified in the description. But you also see that many voters don't care. But I just do.

Message edited by author 2025-02-03 16:50:10.

colorcarnival

Olympus 45mm f1.8 M.Zuiko Digital Micro Four Thirds

02/03/2025 07:28:19 PM · #9

I didn't see anything wrong with it. I thought "sporting event" when I saw your photo. It's a great capture with clear details and emotion. I gave it a 7.

Originally posted by 3DsArcher:

GolferDDS

Canon EOS R5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

02/03/2025 08:25:24 PM · #10

Disregard

Message edited by author 2025-02-03 20:27:37.

3DsArcher

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II USM

02/03/2025 10:16:05 PM · #11

Thanks

willem &

colorcarnival. That makes me feel a lot better about it now.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

02/04/2025 11:43:25 AM · #12

I thought this was about the description for Abstract. I definitely disagree with abstract having to be unrecognizable.

02/04/2025 12:53:43 PM · #13

Originally posted by vawendy:

I thought this was about the description for Abstract. I definitely disagree with abstract having to be unrecognizable.

Many people seem to agree with you if you look at the outcome of the recent abstract challenge on dpreview
Someone took a picture of bubbles, called it "just bubbles" and won the challenge.

In my dictionary that does not have anything to do with abstract.
The word means "to draw away from, to remove from" reality.

Message edited by author 2025-02-04 12:54:03.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

02/04/2025 01:01:43 PM · #14

I would absolutely love to talk about abstraction but the challenge is still ongoing.

02/04/2025 01:52:52 PM · #15

Ok-dokie, we've now gotten into talking about a current challenge specifically while in voting. Hiding the thread for now. Can open up after the challenge is finished voting. Thanks.

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

02/10/2025 04:45:01 PM · #16

Now that it's re-opened, should we change the thread title? Maybe to "What's an Abstract (was: Darned Descriptions!!)" ??

02/10/2025 05:16:43 PM · #17

Originally posted by nam:

I absolutely HATE them. They are almost never necessary, rarely helpful, and frequently the opposite. ~~End of rant.~~

Title of the thread seems appropriate to me based on the OP. Otherwise, you'd be saying you hate Abstracts.

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

02/10/2025 05:18:25 PM · #18

... or, start a new thread? '\O/'

PennyStreet

Olympus OM-D E-M1

02/10/2025 08:47:20 PM · #19

1. "Abstracts are about lines, shapes and colors." In this challenge, the blue ribbon took home the abstract IMO.

2. "If it is recognizable as an object - it is not an abstract." IMO this part of the challenge description is problematic because people see things differently... what's obviously recognizable to one may look differently to someone else. Also ... the definition of "an object" may not be clear as some of us think it is.

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

02/10/2025 09:57:27 PM · #20

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

1. "Abstracts are about lines, shapes and colors." In this challenge, the blue ribbon took home the abstract IMO.

2. "If it is recognizable as an object - it is not an abstract." IMO this part of the challenge description is problematic because people see things differently... what's obviously recognizable to one may look differently to someone else. Also ... the definition of "an object" may not be clear as some of us think it is.

I agree. This is a photography site and we are taking photos. They are, necessarily, "of" something, presumably an object though sometimes an animal or person. While it's true that in the case of some of the entries, determining what that object was would be a total and lucky guess (because of extreme in-camera blur or very unusual perspective or an object/subject that's unfamiliar or other . . . or a combination there-of), it's also the case that for well over 50% of the entries and maybe more like 70% of them, I could have accurately guessed the subject quite easily. I say that's fine . . . until and unless the description essentially directs me to disregard all those entries. That is my real problem with many descriptions and with this part of this one in particular.

Nikon AF-S DX 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 ED VR

02/11/2025 03:18:37 AM · #21

Very often, I think it is good to have a description that is really restrictive so that people get challenged a bit more. Quite a few pictures in the abstract challenge could have become much more of an abstract if the photographer would have gone closer, taken a different angle, played with colors or structures in post-processing etc.

I agree some pictures showed a nice play with form, shape, color while still being recognisable. That's unfortunate.

If you would say "it should be an abstraction of reality. It should all be about shape, color or structure, not about the subject that is being photographed" maybe it could work.

Just force people to make an extra effort. Many challenge pictures in general are a bit lazy (if one can say that about a picture), a bit obvious, repetition of the past.

Message edited by author 2025-02-11 03:18:59.

jomari

Nikon D7000

02/11/2025 07:10:37 AM · #22

Abstraction is in the eye of the beholder. If you are determined to just see an object for what it is it wont be abstract to you. If, on the other hand, you set aside the physical likeness and appreciate the image for the shapes and lines and colours then you are viewing it as an abstract.

Can you really not see these in the abstract?

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

02/11/2025 08:38:07 AM · #23

Originally posted by jomari:

No , sorry, I can't.

As per my comment on the first one already, if a crop would have been taken of the ice structure (the face-like structure) with some brown and blue reflections (a bit less then the top right quadrant of the image) I would have considered it an abstract. With the leaves included as-is I just see a picture of a small water stream with a special ice shape, reality exactly as-is, not abstracted.

In the second one I only now see a face (two eyes and a nose) in the thumbnail, which I did not see in the big picture. Maybe a slightly different angle and cropping out the reflection of the sun would have done the job.

For me abstract = try to remove the reality, and, even better but not necessarily, if you can, make it look like something else. I thought this one was a good example of that.

Message edited by author 2025-02-11 08:42:10.

PennyStreet

Olympus OM-D E-M1

02/11/2025 12:06:45 PM · #24

Originally posted by willem:

Originally posted by jomari:
Abstraction is in the eye of the beholder. If you are determined to just see an object for what it is it wont be abstract to you. If, on the other hand, you set aside the physical likeness and appreciate the image for the shapes and lines and colours then you are viewing it as an abstract.

Can you really not see these in the abstract?

No , sorry, I can't.

If I may... here is a quote of

colorcarnival's comment on this image "Describes my mood of wanting to scream a lot these days lol. It's a really interesting piece."

For me, this is key to the understanding of abstractness. I have not formally studied art, and am not sure I can make sense here. But having personally experienced 100s and 100s of museums, I believe a good abstract is more than just lines and shapes and colors.... those colors etc, rather than a recognizable subject, are what evoke feeling from the piece. It's not an easy task and this photo did that for Michelle. Is that because she "saw" a face? Maybe... but the point is that this image did it's job for her. It's clearly NOT a person.just happens to remind this viewer of what a person's face might look like to them. By using light and shapes, etc.