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04/29/2005 02:41:40 PM · #1 |
Some of you may recall a couple months ago my company sent me to a 3 day seminar- there were some industry bigwigs there, as well as Diana Degarmo from American Idol providing entertainment. I asked my supervisor, who also happens to be the guy running the seminar, if I could shoot during the seminar. He said please do.
While there I became the official unofficial shooter, being asked to take specific photos for specific purposes, etc. I even gave my supervisor full-size processed files of the main portraits for use in future seminars.
Yesterday he asked me (actually it wasn't really a request- it was, "hey, I need from you....") to give him ALL the photos I took, at 300 DPI, on a CD. I'm a bit shocked and feel a little uncomfortable about this. I've already done quite a bit for him/them- now he wants me to just hand over everything I did, with no compensation? I'm not paid to be a photographer at my job, I attended the seminar as an employee and I was there to learn (which I did), taking photos was a bonus for me and an unexpected perk for them.
I recently backed up all my photos to DVD and I'm now finding that many of the files are corrupt, so this may end up being a moot point- I haven't checked the seminar photos yet. But in the event they're all whole, how should I handle this?
Edited to add: I took several hundred photos in the course of the seminar.
Message edited by author 2005-04-29 14:42:25.
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04/29/2005 02:45:21 PM · #2 |
Were you on paid company time? if so, it's very likely that such action could be stipulated as work-for-hire...
I'd actually give them to your boss if you can (or at least what is uncorrupted). I mean, really, if there was someone from American Idol. The possible connection that could be built if they liked your work probably exceeds any monetary gain or compensation you might receive.
You had no contract...and if you were on the company dole it's very likely they could make a work-for-hire claim case.
Milk the connection, sew the seeds. If you reap back a return it could be 10 fold. I mean....imagine...shooting American Idols for press releases. Could your boss ever pay you more than that potential connection would be worth? |
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04/29/2005 02:47:20 PM · #3 |
as you said, an unexpected perk for the company.
sounds like you need to dust off those negotiation skills and have a heart to heart with your boss.
Be diplomatic, but make him understand that you took the time to take the pix, and in any other normal sense of the word, the company would of spent alot more money to get a pro to do the same thing.
Don't let them run you over. take charge, make some money.
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04/29/2005 02:48:15 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Were you on paid company time? if so, it's very likely that such action could be stipulated as work-for-hire...
I'd actually give them to your boss if you can (or at least what is uncorrupted). I mean, really, if there was someone from American Idol. The possible connection that could be built if they liked your work probably exceeds any monetary gain or compensation you might receive.
You had no contract...and if you were on the company dole it's very likely they could make a work-for-hire claim case.
Milk the connection, sew the seeds. If you reap back a return it could be 10 fold. I mean....imagine...shooting American Idols for press releases. Could your boss ever pay you more than that potential connection would be worth? |
Good point as well.
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04/29/2005 02:51:52 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Were you on paid company time? if so, it's very likely that such action could be stipulated as work-for-hire...
I'd actually give them to your boss if you can (or at least what is uncorrupted). I mean, really, if there was someone from American Idol. The possible connection that could be built if they liked your work probably exceeds any monetary gain or compensation you might receive.
You had no contract...and if you were on the company dole it's very likely they could make a work-for-hire claim case.
Milk the connection, sew the seeds. If you reap back a return it could be 10 fold. I mean....imagine...shooting American Idols for press releases. Could your boss ever pay you more than that potential connection would be worth? |
In general, what you say is sensible, but haze's company has NOTHING to do with American idol, nor did they organize the seminar. So the chances of the company gaining haze a toehold with AI are pretty slim. They no doubt want the images for their own, internal use and history.
I'm not sure the case can legitimately be made that haze's company has any vested ownership rights in the photos as work-for-hire, but the social dynamics you describe are spot-on. There's probably more to lose by refusing the request than it's worth risking. Haze might legitimately require of the company that he be CREDITED each time & place a photo is used, and he might hint strongly in some non-offensive manner that a bonus might be in order for this valuable work....
Robt.
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04/29/2005 02:53:12 PM · #6 |
I should also mention that on three different occasions this same supervisor has asked me if I'd take photos for magazine publication- one an article about him, one about a coworker of mine, and one about some of our equipment. In each case all I asked for was a copy of the publication and a photo credit when it was printed. I've only seen one of the three pubs (the article on my coworker)- I wasn't given a copy of it, and it didn't get a credit even though my photo was used. O(n the other two he shrugged and said "I don't even know if the articles were ever printed." His track record makes me hesitant ;)
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04/29/2005 02:54:21 PM · #7 |
...
Message edited by author 2014-08-22 18:00:40. |
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04/29/2005 02:56:39 PM · #8 |
 
And I got a lot of good photos at this thing, we ain't just talkin' snapshots here!! :D
Message edited by author 2005-04-29 14:57:39.
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04/29/2005 02:58:17 PM · #9 |
I can only address this from the position of what I would do, as I have little insights in to the ground you walk on in your professional world.
I would provide the pictures on the condition I was credited and maintained ownership to use for marketing, especially within the company to some degree and advise future shots may involve some minor costs. I would use it to market my skills inside the company and elsewhere and use it as both a confidence booster and referal for future work.
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04/29/2005 02:59:13 PM · #10 |
I recently had a dilima such as this. I just returned from a business trip to Paris. The company owner sent his 23 year old son to be my helper on the job. Anyway, we had a lot of free time in Paris and I've got my D70 (of course). I took about 350 shots in 5 days all over Paris. On the way back home, the owners son tells me that he expects copies of all my photos when we get home. To make a long story short, I only gave him about 200 of the less then pefecrt photos and kept all of the best stuff for myself. I am very protective of giving away nice high resolution photos capable of making enlargements!
Also, I am expected to bring my equipment to work when ever we need digital images for certain projects. I don't get extra compensations for it either, but tht doesn't bother me to much. Anyway, I'd rather use my good stuff instead of using the crap equipment they have at the office. I'm now spoiled!
If any of you all are considering the SB-800 flash for your Nikon camera, I suggest that you buy it! It took me a few days of test photos to figure it out, but I love it!
Paul
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04/29/2005 02:59:44 PM · #11 |
| You have a couple of roads to take. You could say, "Ooopsie, I've lost all the pictures, due to coruption on the computer." You could claim they are yours, and possibly end up in a legal battle, or at best, on bad terms with your boss and company. You could mark all them with a small copyright, so everyone knows where they came from. There are hundreds of things you could do, but I think the best thing to do (for several reasons) is to not only provide them with a copy of the photos, but also offer your services for the future. Learn from this one! And next time take steps to protect your work. This time however, I would consider this an "investment" in the future. This may open the door to wedding photography, photographing parties, graduations...you name it. Thank your boss once again for the opportunity he gave you to take the pictures, and see how many doors open up for you in the future...Good Luck Andi! |
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04/29/2005 02:59:53 PM · #12 |
I've been known to do something similar at our quarterly IT meetings but I just give copies of the original files to the person in charge. The way I look at it is that my job description (which doesn't include checking out DPC but who can help it) is as a programmer/analyst. They allow me some freedom in bringing my equipment to work on days where some of us are getting together to go shoot or when I have a session scheduled for immediately following work. In return, I take photos for the company once every 3 months. Then again, I have just about as much photography work on the side as I am looking to get while maintaining a full-time job. I get event contracts, weddings and portfolio work so I don't have any impetus to make an issue out of my situation. Guess it really depends on what you want to do. I chose to not rock the boat but that's because I like the boat I'm in.
Kev
P.S. - The corporate photog gets the latest Canon (1Ds followed by a 1Ds II) and gets to go on trips with some of the top dogs (read Caribbean islands, Colorado ski trips, cruises, etc) and still I wouldn't trade my job for his so your situation may be different. I'm happy with mine.
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04/29/2005 03:00:00 PM · #13 |
Is the person asking for your photos your immediate supervisor? Is there someone above him with whom you can discuss this with and maybe formalize something regarding compensation for future events?
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04/29/2005 03:00:01 PM · #14 |
He's your boss, so you cant say what your feeling I guess, Tell him your "the files are corrupt".
ju |
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04/29/2005 03:01:01 PM · #15 |
| Sounds to me like if you are an employee and you take photos for your work and are paid by your work, then they own the copy right. I think it comes under the work for hire. Next time take the day off and take the photos on your own time. |
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04/29/2005 03:01:57 PM · #16 |
WOW...Great pictures! Now if you get any of Fantasia...let me know! j/k
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04/29/2005 03:03:12 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Is the person asking for your photos your immediate supervisor? Is there someone above him with whom you can discuss this with and maybe formalize something regarding compensation for future events? |
He is the head of the entire nationwide department- he is the biggest wig in this branch of the company.
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04/29/2005 03:05:04 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by ahaze:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Is the person asking for your photos your immediate supervisor? Is there someone above him with whom you can discuss this with and maybe formalize something regarding compensation for future events? |
He is the head of the entire nationwide department- he is the biggest wig in this branch of the company. |
If you are comfortable with your job situation then you could discuss future events and compensation with him. Make the point that the first few events were just to show what you could do.
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04/29/2005 03:07:14 PM · #19 |
Sounds like the boss is taking advantage. His track record certainly doesn't do him any favors. I've done photos of events for two professional societies I belong to and in all cases where I've seen these photos used, they have credited me. I did it as a volunteer, since the organizations are non-profit.
I also run into this at work, where I occasionally do a little product photography. In these cases, I alwayd do the work at home and bill the company for my work. It's a win-win, they get very fast service from someone who knows their products, and I get paid.
In this situation, if I were in your shoes (hope they're not heels, LOL) I would negotiate, but very diplomatically, since they paid your way to the seminar. Turn over the pics if you have to, but make it very clear that wou will expect to be compensated for future photography work that they want you to do.
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04/29/2005 03:10:23 PM · #20 |
...
Message edited by author 2014-08-22 18:01:01. |
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04/29/2005 03:13:32 PM · #21 |
Let me ask you this, are you going to compensate them for the work hours you spent taking those photos? If not... suck it up and hand over the photos. I don't see what the big deal is. It isn't like you were taking photos of a groundbreaking event, or a celebrity screwup that is going to be sold for thousands of dollars to a tabloid. It was a seminar!
You were being paid by your company to attend that seminar, you took those photos on company time. They agreed to let you take those photos on company time, and probably did so under the assumption that you would provide them with the photos.
If your company was the one putting on the seminar, and you were an employee of that company and taking pictures... at that point are you really the "unofficial" official photographer?
Sounds like you got bigger issues with your employer than just this. Maybe you should just find a new job.
Message edited by author 2005-04-29 15:22:34. |
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04/29/2005 03:14:13 PM · #22 |
My suggestion would be to add a (c) line across the bottom of every image and ensure the credit goes where it needs to. Also make sure that they can't easily crop it out.
Edit. Oops - you already figured that one while I was reading the rest of the thread...
Message edited by author 2005-04-29 15:14:42.
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04/29/2005 03:15:27 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by ahaze:
And I got a lot of good photos at this thing, we ain't just talkin' snapshots here!! :D |
Absolutely wonderful shots! I can see why your boss wants them. I agree with the person who said to put the copyright on them. You might want to keep it somewhat small near the bottom of the image. Maybe even transparent like all of the TV networks are doing now. Hopefully if they use the image somewhere they will not crop it off. I'm a network engineer at a major software company, and I know I had to sign a waiver that basically said that anything I come up with at work belongs to them. It probably isn't that general, but something to that affect. If you signed something like that, you may be stuck. Either way, try the copyrighted approach first, then if asked, you may have to remove it and give them the originals depending on the situation. Again, the 2 photo's you posted are great! I would have given them at least a "9" in the "People challenge". Good luck!
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04/29/2005 03:20:58 PM · #24 |
| I had something similar happen to me regarding my creative outlets, though it was not photography. The work I was asked to do was on company time, and was deemed property of the company. I was not able to keep my artwork. It was a tough lesson, but the next time I was asked to provide such creative services, I made it a point to mention that I bring an additional company asset to the table, above and beyond my required duties. I offered to do it again on my own time and was able to negotiate for additional pay. At the same time, I was able to credit my own work, and license it elsewhere, though I never licensed it elsewhere. If I wanted to I could. |
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04/29/2005 03:37:27 PM · #25 |
I was just wondering if in them asking for your pictures are they asking for the ONLY copy of them and forbidding you to do anyting with yours? If not I would make sure if you hand them over that they understand you still hold the copyright as the photographer and anything printed would have to be approved and/or paid for. I do photos all the time at work but my situation is different it is always under the understanding that the photos belong to the Navy and anything shot with their equipment is under their copyright rules.
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