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08/28/2005 04:21:10 PM · #1 |
Is Canon going to be moving more toward the Full Frame sensor for future D-SLR's? I just have a feeling that if they release a 30D that it may also have a full frame sensor, but still be at the 8MP range. Maybe increase it 10MP. The price would surely be in the $2200+ range.
That would certainly appeal to me. All the features of the 20D but a full frame sensor, larger LCD, larger buffer and possibly the improved AF that is in the 5D.
Any other opinions on what the 30D may have?? |
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08/28/2005 04:23:36 PM · #2 |
What it really would need to be great, is eye focus...the focusing point is where you are looking in the viewfinder.
Steve |
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08/28/2005 04:33:34 PM · #3 |
If they were to do that, it would piss off people who'd bought the ef-s lenses, I suppose...
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08/28/2005 04:46:03 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by rgo:
If they were to do that, it would piss off people who'd bought the ef-s lenses, I suppose... |
Absolutely. But they would still have the market for ef-s lenses with the Rebel XT. For all i know Canon may also make another D-SLR that would squeeze in between the XT and 20D just so they would have 2 different models that would accept those lenses.
I just feel that the 20D would be a much better camera if it had a FF sensor. Even if it that was the only upgrade that was made. IMO, if the 30D doesn't have a FF sensor. I will save my money and go for the 5D. |
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08/28/2005 04:51:24 PM · #5 |
| Not too much squeeze between the XT and 20D |
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08/28/2005 04:52:41 PM · #6 |
I am absolutely sure that both the 20D and 350D XT replacement models will be fullframe.
1.3 and 1.6x crop belongs to the past!
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08/28/2005 04:56:06 PM · #7 |
The 20D has dropped crazy the last few days...
It's going for only $7 australian dollars on ebay now... That's cheap! |
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08/28/2005 05:07:50 PM · #8 |
Your Full-frame expectations are absolutely ridiculous. You make it sound like FF is a must-have. The successor to the 20D will likely still be 1.6x, otherwise what would be the point of buying the 5D?
Despite the hype, your 1.6x sensors still take great pictures.
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08/28/2005 05:19:39 PM · #9 |
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08/28/2005 05:24:46 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by terje:
The 20D has dropped crazy the last few days...
It's going for only $7 australian dollars on ebay now... That's cheap! |
That is a 20C not D |
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08/28/2005 06:32:46 PM · #11 |
Are you guys kidding? Or have you been smoking something?
What the 20D-successor will offer is a 2.5 inch screen, maybe a slight increase in resolution, but I don't think that will happen. DEFINITELY NOT A FULL FRAME SENSOR.
The 5D already is the poor man's 1Ds, so why build another one?
Canon clearly sticks with the three sensor sizes BECAUSE THEY MAKE SENSE.
If you're still confused by their strategy, try this post of mine over at dpreview.com:
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=14738286
I'l repeat it here, it's just my theory. Nobody at Canon told me any of it. I don't know ANYONE at Canon, so it's really just my interpretation of things.
Bruno |
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08/28/2005 06:37:27 PM · #12 |
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08/28/2005 09:16:36 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Plexxoid:
Your Full-frame expectations are absolutely ridiculous. You make it sound like FF is a must-have. The successor to the 20D will likely still be 1.6x, otherwise what would be the point of buying the 5D?
Despite the hype, your 1.6x sensors still take great pictures. |
The point would be that there would be a 12.8MP FF camera, 5D and also an 8MP FF, possibly the 30D. Still quite a bit of difference in MP's.
I certainly agree with terje. I think that the 1.6x and 1.3x sensors will be fading soon. 35mm D SLR's ultimate goal is to phase out 35mm film. The only way to do that is to have a wide variety of FF D SLR's on the market that can perform better than film. Canon is also looking to do justice to their line of L glass on digital cameras. FF sensors will help them accomplish this. When I spend $1200.00 on a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L lens, I expect it to actually be that range not 38-112mm due to the 1.6x crop factor on the 20D.
IMO, if FF sensors are available and can perform as good or better than film, than it is a must have.
It's a shame that more manufacturer's are not producing FF sensors for their D SLR line of cameras. Hopefully the Nikon D200 will be have a full frame sensor. HOPEFULLY......
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08/28/2005 09:24:50 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by krazyivan:
Originally posted by Plexxoid:
Your Full-frame expectations are absolutely ridiculous. You make it sound like FF is a must-have. The successor to the 20D will likely still be 1.6x, otherwise what would be the point of buying the 5D?
Despite the hype, your 1.6x sensors still take great pictures. |
The point would be that there would be a 12.8MP FF camera, 5D and also an 8MP FF, possibly the 30D. Still quite a bit of difference in MP's.
I certainly agree with terje. I think that the 1.6x and 1.3x sensors will be fading soon. 35mm D SLR's ultimate goal is to phase out 35mm film. The only way to do that is to have a wide variety of FF D SLR's on the market that can perform better than film. Canon is also looking to do justice to their line of L glass on digital cameras. FF sensors will help them accomplish this. When I spend $1200.00 on a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L lens, I expect it to actually be that range not 38-112mm due to the 1.6x crop factor on the 20D.
IMO, if FF sensors are available and can perform as good or better than film, than it is a must have.
It's a shame that more manufacturer's are not producing FF sensors for their D SLR line of cameras. Hopefully the Nikon D200 will be have a full frame sensor. HOPEFULLY...... |
The wide end deffinately blows, but the extra help on the telephoto lenses is why they will keep a cropped sensor. Newspaper photogs don't need the higher resolution, but they love having a 600mm f2.8, or a 300mm f1.8. I would look for a whole new sensor design and a new lens mount.
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08/28/2005 09:36:17 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by MeThoS:
Originally posted by krazyivan:
Originally posted by Plexxoid:
Your Full-frame expectations are absolutely ridiculous. You make it sound like FF is a must-have. The successor to the 20D will likely still be 1.6x, otherwise what would be the point of buying the 5D?
Despite the hype, your 1.6x sensors still take great pictures. |
The point would be that there would be a 12.8MP FF camera, 5D and also an 8MP FF, possibly the 30D. Still quite a bit of difference in MP's.
I certainly agree with terje. I think that the 1.6x and 1.3x sensors will be fading soon. 35mm D SLR's ultimate goal is to phase out 35mm film. The only way to do that is to have a wide variety of FF D SLR's on the market that can perform better than film. Canon is also looking to do justice to their line of L glass on digital cameras. FF sensors will help them accomplish this. When I spend $1200.00 on a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L lens, I expect it to actually be that range not 38-112mm due to the 1.6x crop factor on the 20D.
IMO, if FF sensors are available and can perform as good or better than film, than it is a must have.
It's a shame that more manufacturer's are not producing FF sensors for their D SLR line of cameras. Hopefully the Nikon D200 will be have a full frame sensor. HOPEFULLY...... |
The wide end deffinately blows, but the extra help on the telephoto lenses is why they will keep a cropped sensor. Newspaper photogs don't need the higher resolution, but they love having a 600mm f2.8, or a 300mm f1.8. I would look for a whole new sensor design and a new lens mount. |
In this respect I can see your point, with a cropped sensor there is an advantage with telephoto lenses. I guess that's what teleconverters are for, if you have a ff sensor.
Too bad there isn't an adapter that can be placed on a FF sensor that can give you the crop factor of your choice....;-) |
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08/28/2005 09:39:44 PM · #16 |
Canon would not have released an entire new lens concept, EF-S, if they did not intend for the 1.6-crop cams to be around for a long time to come. I believe the 20D successor will maintain the 1.6 crop and compatibility with EF-S lenses.
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08/28/2005 09:56:58 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Canon would not have released an entire new lens concept, EF-S, if they did not intend for the 1.6-crop cams to be around for a long time to come. I believe the 20D successor will maintain the 1.6 crop and compatibility with EF-S lenses. |
There are 4 lenses with the EF-S mount (unless I missed one). I don't think that it would be too hard for canon to phase that out over time. Not to familiar with the history of the FD lenses, but I don't really see those around too much.
Also, if Canon was 100% behind these lenses, why would they not have made the new 1D MKIIn with an EF-S mount. |
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08/28/2005 10:14:40 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by krazyivan:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Canon would not have released an entire new lens concept, EF-S, if they did not intend for the 1.6-crop cams to be around for a long time to come. I believe the 20D successor will maintain the 1.6 crop and compatibility with EF-S lenses. |
There are 4 lenses with the EF-S mount (unless I missed one). I don't think that it would be too hard for canon to phase that out over time. Not to familiar with the history of the FD lenses, but I don't really see those around too much.
Also, if Canon was 100% behind these lenses, why would they not have made the new 1D MKIIn with an EF-S mount. |
EF-S is intended for consumer-oriented cams. Their pro bodies will go full-frame, there is no doubt of that. I don't see them supporting three sensor sizes, and the direction toward full-frame in the pro and semi-pro markets is clear.
Canon has stated, though, that EF-S is here to stay. Sure, there's the possibility that in 20 years, EF-S might be nothing but a memory, but whether that happens has everything to do with market acceptance of the concept. I see significant market acceptance, with even "enthusiasts" buying into the idea. Bottom line, if your photographic needs and desires do not make full frame attractive, then EF-S makes great sense. An EF-S lens on a 1.6-crop cam is nothing but a digital version of an APS-C film camera. It's a smaller, more compact format than full-size 35mm and has its place in the market.
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08/28/2005 10:56:07 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by krazyivan:
35mm D SLR's ultimate goal is to phase out 35mm film. .....
IMO, if FF sensors are available and can perform as good or better than film, than it is a must have.
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According to serious analysis I have seen (lost the link, I think it was luminous landscape) digotal was already outperforming 35mm film with the 10D, let alone the 20D. I agree witht hat. I've had both, of course, and I don't see anything to make me think otherwise. That's a dead issue, "outperforming 35mm film"...
R.
Message edited by author 2005-08-28 22:59:19.
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08/29/2005 12:26:46 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by krazyivan:
Too bad there isn't an adapter that can be placed on a FF sensor that can give you the crop factor of your choice....;-) |
Just use photoshop to crop. Its then a matter of photosite size. |
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08/29/2005 10:23:54 PM · #21 |
There will never be a viable full-frame 20D successor until canon make a sensor that has high enough resolution to crop to the 1.6 factor at the equivalent of 8.2 megapixels. Wildlife and sports photographers will simply not buy it. As i keep going on in other threads, when you crop a 5D image to show the same area a 20D image would on the same lens, you get a 5 megapixel image. In order to get that detail out of a full-frame sensor, the sensor would have to have 21 effective megapixels, and it'll be a few years yet til we see one of those from canon.
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